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Covid Vaccine - AF (15th Nov 2020 - 11:43:36) We keep hearing that the Covid Vaccine works and will soon be approved and other types of vaccine are nearing the end of human trials and will be approved. This is all good news and for one will take the vaccine as soon as I'm allowed, I'm under 50 and not in a vulnerable group so I know I will have to wait quite a few months. The problem is a lot of people will not take this vaccine, of the colleagues I work with over half will say no, some are anti vacs people and one says it's not been tested for long enough and if she takes it she grow two heads(a bit extreme). The thing is if a significant proportion of the population don't take it we will never get out of this COVID hysteria and back to normal.

Re: Covid Vaccine - Penny Williamson (15th Nov 2020 - 13:01:14) So AF what are you suggesting - make vaccination compulsory. We are not a police state yet. I would agree with your work colleague that the whole process has been rushed through and there is a great deal that we do not know about this disease or its possible mutation. Individuals must be allowed to make up their own mind oh and by the way I am not anti vac. I have had my flu jab this year as I have done for years.

Re: Covid Vaccine - er (15th Nov 2020 - 13:07:56) Don't worry, we won't have enough to vaccinate more than the first few million till at least Spring (that's if final tests etc continue to go well), each person will need to be inoculated twice, so the 10 million doses currently on order will go fast, mainly to the most vulnerable and front line workers, so 10 million doses equates to 5 million people at first, possibly with as little as 6 months protection to repeat, by then various other (different) treatments may be approved such as Moderna or Sputnik V etc, people who don't feel they are at great risk and choose to wait for more data should be respected too, this is a democracy, no shaming necessary, the people who want it or need it most should be allowed to go first anyway, some front line roles might require it, but even then it shouldn't be forced onto people, as for me, would I take it, maybe, but I'm not frontline or at greatest risk, so maybe I'd wait a while and let others who want it more go ahead, it's going to be in global short supply for a year at least, it's a privilege not a right nor a requirement (yet).

Re: Covid Vaccine - anon (16th Nov 2020 - 10:47:28) You can hardly call us anti-vacers - we do not feel the need to take a vaccine for the following reasons. We just have common sense and are not sheep being terrified by a virus that has a 99.6% survival rate. - how can a vaccine created in 6 months be safe? it takes 10+ years to create and test one - whilst it may have been tested for a few months, they will not have any idea what the long term side effects are - the virus has a survival rate of 99.6% - this is higher than the flu, cancer etc etc - the average age of death from covid is higher than the general average age of death - why are the government so keen to vaccinate everyone eventually? seems odd, they don't do this for anything else

Re: Covid Vaccine - passfield resident (16th Nov 2020 - 12:03:52) Anon-you miss the point entirely-the point of vaccination isn't primarily to protect people who will survive getting covid-it's to help protect the vulnerable, who are still dying in quite large numbers and who will continue to die unless the disease is controlled. Your attitude is essentially selfish-people who won't have the vaccine should have to continue suffering restrictions ie not being allowed to travel abroad without quarantine and having to wear face coverings in some situations. Anyone who refuses the vaccine should also not be allowed to work in close proximity to others and shouldn't be allowed routine contact with anyone elderly or vulnerable-in fact, they should have to continue in lockdown. The people who are against the MMR vaccine for children have a similar attitude and are responsible for preventable serious illnesses

Re: Covid Vaccine - er (16th Nov 2020 - 12:42:20) anon you make good points. A classical vaccine takes 10 years to gain certification because that allows time to check for long term side effects, but in a rush to beat Covid19 and open up the economy fully, as well as social life and activities (understandably), there will only be time to check for short term and some early mid term side effects. Plus many of those in trial are not classical vaccines using an inactivated virus to train the immune response but use completely new genetically engineered RNA material that is injected directly into your cells and change the way they produce protein, ok I admit this is way out of my league to understand, also they need to be transported and stored at something like -65 degrees, the whole thing is a massive jump into the dark, born out of necessity, I can understand if some people choose to wait and see whilst others jump in with both feet and say yes please, horses for courses, whilst it's not mandatory both views and needs should be respected! Not being any kind of expert, just another concerned citizen, I leave you this great article I read today (from a very respected newspaper so no 'disinformation' stickers please!), better informed makes for better choices, many of us are sensibly still waiting for more information which is coming out daily! jpost.com/health-science/could-an-mrna-vaccine-be-dangerous-in-the-long-term-649253

Re: Covid Vaccine - anon (16th Nov 2020 - 12:54:24) Passfield resident - elderly are dying anyway, and we are prolonging lives unnecessarily at the risk of many younger innocent ones through cancer and suicide! Those who die from Covid are generally still living longer than the average age of death. Sadly these things are natures way of culling out the population. Many elderly people have the flu jab yet die from the flu because it is not 100% effective. I suggest you do some research. Covid is not deadly to the general population - most things are deadly to the elderly; the flu, staircases, a cold/sickness bug etc - that is life and how it has always been. Why are people struggling to accept it, we cannot all live forever!

Re: Covid Vaccine - D (16th Nov 2020 - 13:10:02) A possible solution would be for those who don't want the vaccine to sign a document barring them from any medical help were they to contract the disease. Any takers? No, thought not.

Re: Covid Vaccine - passfield resident (16th Nov 2020 - 15:16:20) Anon- your anonymous callousness is pretty sickening. I hope you are well cared for when you are elderly in spite of your attitude.

Re: Covid Vaccine - D (16th Nov 2020 - 16:33:51) I am fascinated by anon's comments on "prolonging life unnecessarily". I am sure there are many people of whom would not be here today had it not been for medical intervention at birth. Do these fall into anon's category of "prolonging life unneccessarily"? Would anon take away the gift of life from new born babies in need of medical assistance at birth? Anon, your opinions died on the gallows in Nuremberg in 1946.

Re: Covid Vaccine - Penny Williamson (16th Nov 2020 - 17:53:06) I felt sick when I read Anon's post. No wonder he/she posts under the name Anon. He/she obviously doesn't know anything about history or he/she would realise that was why there was a Second World War - to protect persecuted human beings and the weak, vulnerable, disabled, sick and elderly.

Re: Covid Vaccine - steve (16th Nov 2020 - 17:59:40) While the survival rate for the majority is very high, still thousands of young to middle-aged are ill enough to require admission to hospital. This is again interfering with routine other treatments, clinics etc which will affect everyone.

Re: Covid Vaccine - steve2 (16th Nov 2020 - 20:50:52) Anon I suspect that in reality you are probably not as cold and heartless as suggested by your posts but you do seem to be missing the point as to why a vaccine is so important to society as a whole and not just the elderly or those otherwise vulnerable to this condition. Unless you would go so far as to deny treatment to anyone who had the misfortune to suffer serious symptoms after picking up the virus, allowing it to spread unchecked will inevitably result in periods when hospitals and other medical services are unable to operate normally due to overwhelming demand thus resulting in severe restrictions on ability to treat other serious conditions such as cancer. As has already been seen the impact of such a scenario will impact on many more than those suffering from Covid 19 and maybe those so affected could one day include you or your nearest and dearest. Everyone will of course have to make their own decisions as to whether taking a vaccine when available is right for them but, at least to my mind, there seems to be a clear civic duty to participate if at all possible.

Re: Covid Vaccine - AF (16th Nov 2020 - 20:52:22) The point about this is that as some people have said quite rightly that this virus is not that deadly, a mortality rate of around 0.5% and that it mainly has a bad effect on the elderly that they don't need to worry about the vaccine. That is correct but the thing is unless a large proportion of people get the vaccine when its available the virus will continue to spread and we will continue with these restrictions. No Vaccine = No Holidays, No concerts, No carnival, No shopping, No restaurants I could go on.

Re: Covid Vaccine - Ian (17th Nov 2020 - 08:07:00) Couple of problems rolling out the vaccine Firstly it will require an enormous amount of organisation to get an effective immunisation program in place, something this inept government will probably mess up. Secondly common sense and decent behaviour by the public, this will not happen. Unfortunately this pandemic has shown the general public at its worst. Remember when the testing was first rolled out the huge numbers going for tests even when not showing any symptoms whatsoever! It will be essential for the vulnerable to take priority but you can just imagine the numbers of less vulnerable wanting to be vaccinated first!

Re: Covid Vaccine - Joe (17th Nov 2020 - 12:51:24) I agree re pulling together. Anon posted that way because he/she is one of the anti immunisation people. Blame Trump for that. With regard WW2 Penny it was started by Britain because Hitler broke a political treaty not to invade Poland. It was not to do with protecting any vunerable members of society. We had intelligence about what the Nazis were doing with the Jewish and vunerable long before the war hence the kindertransport, but 6 million or more civillians were still gassed.

Re: Covid Vaccine - Penny Williamson (18th Nov 2020 - 16:06:37) Joe, I think you are splitting hairs. The invasion of Poland which triggered the WW2 was the catalyst not the cause. The cause was Hitler’s ever growing aggressive foreign policy and his aim to eliminate Jews from Germany and establish a New Order known as Neurodnung which meant among other things the creation of a pan-German racial state to ensure the supremacy of an Aryan-Nordic master race. The Slavs, Roma, Ethic, disabled, sick and elderly considered to be unworthy of life or facially inferior were to be exterminated. It is true that some of the powers that be knew what was happening before 1939 but the great majority of the British public had no idea. All they knew was that there was unrest in Europe, one only had to listen to Churchill to know that, but WW1 was too fresh in the minds of many and made the thought of another war very unpalatable. Between 1941 and 1945, across German-occupied Europe, Nazi Germany and its collaborators systematically murdered some six million Jews, around two-thirds of Europe's Jewish population. I realise Hilter’s actions have nothing directly to do with Covid 19, but the principle is the same - he advocated pro-active culling for completely different reasons. Anon is also advocating culling in a re-active way, under the guise that it is “nature’s way” so do nothing to help the vulnerable. It might be nature’s way but if it can be preventable then action should be taken. To Anon I would say the more people who contract Covid which then leads to serious complications whether they are vulnerable or not and some perfectly healthy young people become very sick, the more overloaded the NHS will become unless you are suggesting that these very sick people die horrible deaths at home or worse still in ambulances or hospital corridors. Also please bear in mind that certain ethnic groups of all ages, are more likely to experience Covid complications as are the Down’s Syndrome children and adults. Anon’s premise seems to be that some human beings’ lives are less worthy than others and are therefore dispensable and this is abhorrent. For the record Joe, in my opinion Trump was not solely responsible for the anti-vac campaign. There have been people who have been anti-vac for as long as I can remember.

Re: Covid Vaccine - Ian (18th Nov 2020 - 16:56:37) Penny, I think you are splitting hairs. Whilst Hitler's racial policies were abhorrent to many at the time, if he had not had such an aggressive foreign policy and started invading countries, France and Britain would not have declared war over humanities. The war initially was about protecting national interest.

Re: Covid Vaccine - K (18th Nov 2020 - 17:21:42) More people have died in the uk from covid than the deaths in WW2. Sobering thought that. Also, there will be many,many vulnerable who, due to their conditions and medications and hospital treatments, won't be able to have the Vaccine. Im one of them ! I dont hold out any hope whatsoever that the vast majority of the population who can have it, will. If its not in circulation then people like me can't catch it. So I guess I'll stay indoors forever?

Re: Covid Vaccine - Penny Williamson (18th Nov 2020 - 17:25:04) Sorry to disagree Ian. I am only going by what my great uncle and grandfather told me. They both fought in WW2. They knew exactly what they were fighting for. Hitler's abhorrent policies of mass extermination and the creation of a superior master race and by 1940 most people knew what was happening. Maybe you are right and the powers that be only declared war because of national interest, a cynical view but a view nonetheless, but if my relatives' opinions are anything to go by there were many, many people who were fighting for human rights and decency. I prefer to believe the best in people and I think that this pandemic has brought out the best in the majority of people. In a crisis it is always the selfish few who have the worst brought out in them.

Re: Covid Vaccine - lac (24th Nov 2020 - 13:55:04) Somewhere on this thread is the assertion that Covid 19 is more survivable then flu, cancer etc. I despair at the general ignorance surrounding this virus. It is the worst contagion since Spanish flu in 1918. Have look at Bramshott Military Cemetery to see how lethal that was. Spanish Flu killed more people than the 1st World War. Covid 19 has a far worse case fatality ratio. When its eventually stopped it will have killed many millions. As for the vaccine, the chances of dying (or suffering serious long term conditions) from catching CV 19 far exceeds the risk of a problem with any vaccine. It never fails to amaze me that there are those that think some loonie off the internet knows more about the condition than the scientists who fight against it. If you really believe (like David Icke) that alien reptiles live amongst us, please don't have the vaccine. As for the more rational, every piece of evidence shows that taking vaccines against any disease, always has benefits that far outweigh the risks.

Re: Covid Vaccine - Ian (24th Nov 2020 - 15:59:09) Apologies Penny, I’ve just searched and reviewed a large number of your posts and can see you are never wrong!

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