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Local Talkback
Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.

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Labour Party
- Disappointed (7th Dec 2022 - 10:47:44)

Why are the Labour Party letting the Union’s run riot and decimated our lovely country. I thought labour were supposed to be a party for the people it seems that they are run by the Union’s. All these strikes are totally unnecessary only trying to bring down the government the public have had enough strikes achieve nothing only higher prices. History tells you everything it will all backfire on them. I for one will never vote labour again.

Re: Labour Party
- gareth j rees (7th Dec 2022 - 11:36:25)

delusional post

did you not realise that the conservatives have been in power since 2010?

what else would you like to blame labour for?

the weather?

Re: Labour Party
- Pete (7th Dec 2022 - 12:02:34)

Why do people object so much to people being paid a fair wage and decent working conditions. Maybe you ought to reserve your disappointment for this corrupt self serving government that has been calling the shots for the last 12 years. If you really have that selfish an attitude I doubt you have ever voted Labour.
I know what we should do give everybody in the public sector below inflation pay rises [pay cut] for 8 years then with all that money saved we give it to our mates via dodgy PPE contracts, oh hang on we already have. I know we will demoralise the NHS so much and cut back so hard that the public will get so fed up they will start to accept the idea of a private health service, then some of the companies we have murky ties to will clean up and make us a fortune. Oh hang on we already have.

Re: Labour Party
- er (7th Dec 2022 - 13:02:14)

We saw what happened in Greece when they paid the state workers too much and we saw it under Labour in the 70s, everyone is happy for a bit whilst they're on the gravy train till noone is willing to get up off their chair if it isn't in their contract and if you miss a tea break it's all tools down, then the economy goes belly up and we are all unemployed, house prices crash, interest rates go up to 15% and we all wake up. I guess it all goes in circles though, I suppose that's nothing new.

The thing that gets me is I hear a nurse can earn up to £100k if she just resigns from the NHS and goes agency, I've heard it a few times but doesn't mean it's true I wonder if any nurses with proper experience can clarify.

The other thing is there are many much worse paid jobs that aren't unionised earning as little as 17k for full-time hours but as they are here and there, in smaller firms with no unions they are the ones getting left behind, if the nurses get the19% they want they will be actually pretty well paid, I think overtime is pretty generous too like with th police etc, the problem is that people should be well off, but it's numbers, if the bosses get a big pay rise it's bad but it's a few people, if the workers do it's thousands or hundreds of thousands of people, always been the same, a pay freeze for the leaders does very little but a pay increase for the masses breaks the countries back, the answer is study harder at school I guess!

Re: Labour Party
- Re (7th Dec 2022 - 17:51:52)

Come on Pete rolling out that old chestnut a living wage . All the public sector workers are on a living wage they earn far more than the private sector. And massive protected pension’s . You sound like a staunch union man labour through and through I bet when Maggie put the country right you still would not accept it that that was the best time and most economic times in our history. History will show you labour have Always in the end ruined the country.I expect you think Comrade Corbyn was the bee’s knee’s. It’s time the Union’s were abolished and a more modern system put in place workers working directly with management not union barons ruling the negotiation’s. This country needs to move forward with working practices.

Re: Labour Party
- Ian (7th Dec 2022 - 19:42:42)

The Unions are going to give the next election to the Tories.

Re: Labour Party
- Pete (8th Dec 2022 - 13:17:10)

Open your eyes re - There are plenty of people in this country working several jobs at once and still struggling to make ends meet, this is not right in a developed country. I have worked in both public and private sector and pay levels are actually very similar when various benefits are taken into account (pensions, sick). You seem to be stuck in some kind of ideological timewarp whereby we are all subservient to our lords and masters. This country needs to stop being in so in awe of the "more profit at any cost" model and try a bit of fairness for all.

As for Thatcher quite correct I was and am a hater probably due to the fact that she decimated my industry and let it all go abroad in the pursuit of a low paid service sector economy. All the Conservatives have ever been interested in is selling off the family silver for the most personal gain.
Just on the protected pensions Im afraid thats more rubbish. My father Worked in the dockyard for over 40 years on a pittance of a wage with the promise of a descent pension. Because he was in there so long he had already paid his pension pot by the time he was 58. By the time he was 60 hundreds of younger men with families (including me) were being made redundant and yet they refused him early retirement because he was now cheaper to employ. So just to recap Older man done his time desperate to retire but not allowed, younger men capable of the same job being thrown on the scrapheap. Now when they eventually let him retire he got his pension for 2 years before he died and on that very day they cut his pension in half and left my mother up the creek without a paddle. Yes I hated thatcher, yes I dislike the Conservative philosophy but most of all I hate the lazy thinking that says we cant have a fairer more equal world. We can but it would seem selfishness always seems to win out. You would thing after thousands of years of evolution survival of the fittest would be an outdate concept.

Re: Labour Party
- passfield resident (8th Dec 2022 - 14:54:21)

Well said Pete

Re: Labour Party
- Re (8th Dec 2022 - 14:58:02)

I was about right in your case. The dock’s problem was again down to Union’s same as the car industry demarcation’s work to rule:men sitting around waiting for someone else to put a bolt in because it wasn’t their job . My brother nearly went bankrupt because he was blacked by the Union’s because he would not have the Union’s in his engineering. Company his employees didn’t want to join a union. So I’m the same about labour and unions makes us quit’s.

Re: Labour Party
- Re (8th Dec 2022 - 15:40:32)

Forgot to say my brother died at 42 because all the hassle caused by the Union’s trying to keep going and pay his staff good money going without himself so don’t talk to me about labour and unions they are the problem with this country get rid of the outdated unions, problem is unions are running the Labour Party so it means a complete overhaul.

Re: Labour Party
- Pete (8th Dec 2022 - 16:06:48)

Re - Sorry did you work in Portsmouth docks? because your talking crock. It's so easy to take the party line without looking at facts did you get your idea of the unions from carry on at your convenience. As with all things in life nothing is black and white. Without doubt there will be some in unions the will want to take things too far just as there will be those more than happy to take back paid holidays and suchlike, the sad thing is you only ever hear about the extremes on either side. Whilst we are on the unions for anyone unsure of their usefulness without them we would likely not have; Holiday entitlement, sick entitlement, Pension provision, maternity / paternity rights, minimum wage, unemployment benefit, maximum working hours, safe working environment provision all of which I personally believe should be the least we should expect in a fair and progressive country.

Re: Labour Party
- Re (8th Dec 2022 - 17:37:20)

Flying pickets didn’t happen and bullying by thugs didn’t happen you need to take of those rose tinted glasses. Union’s are the cause of all of our problems. Just seen train drivers going on strike and then signing on for overtime you couldn’t make it up . Sorry Pete your years out of date.

Re: Labour Party
- Joe (8th Dec 2022 - 18:49:33)

With regards the pension for your mother most company pensions reduce by half for the widow / widower when the employee dies that is just standard practice.

Re: Labour Party
- Ian (8th Dec 2022 - 19:06:34)

Old school socialism and old school unions! Laughable and contemptible at the same time and completely irrelevant to the issue of fixing our broken country. All these politically driven strikes are going to do is divide the country even more. The unions are Putins poodles and are being used to undermine the UK. And by the way, public sector workers are not the only ones feeling the pressures of Tory ineptitude!

Re: Labour Party
- Re (8th Dec 2022 - 20:18:36)

But Ian do we want the country to be run by unions it would be like a dictatorship at the moment it seems to be heading that way.

Re: Labour Party
- Penny Williamson (9th Dec 2022 - 14:24:30)

Pete You state that “All the Conservatives have ever been interested in is selling off the family silver for the most personal gain” In 1999 Gordon Brown the then Chancellor, pre-announced he would sell UK gold, thus driving down the price. Instead of quietly selling the gold over a period of time his announcement that he was going to do it lowered the price of gold so he got a lot less for the gold than otherwise. It certainly stunned the market and pushed the price of gold to its lowest for 20 years. There is a school of thought which says that what he did was right because gold cannot earn interest, but the way he did it was wrong and although some interest has been earned back we are still well down. I am not suggesting that Gordon Brown sold the gold for personal gain, but his mistakes cost the taxpayer dearly. You say the Conservatives’ motive for selling “the family silver” was for personal gain. Could you please elaborate?

Re: Labour Party
- passfield resident (9th Dec 2022 - 15:15:03)

Conservative policy has been to privatise where possible, often resulting in reduced services and poorer working conditions for employees. The beneficiaries have been investors in the private companies involved.

Re: Labour Party
- Pete (9th Dec 2022 - 16:56:55)

No Re you need to get a bit of balance stop believing everything you read that appeals to your ideals as gospel.

Re: Labour Party
- Re (10th Dec 2022 - 11:09:24)

No Pete you need to stop believing what you’re told by the union barons. I have seen it first hand and history tells the same. Union’s were good when they first came into being but today it’s completely different a different world they are still back in the dark days. You Can’t have Union’s dictating to the government or a party, the country decides that at a general election. Union’s need a complete overhaul and come back to what they first were all about representing the low paid workers not trying to run the country. Most companies and employers abide by all the rules they have to by law , but the Union’s just want to push for more and more money which is totally unreasonable and in a lot of instances puts firms out of business . Which then puts people out of work again as history tells you. But perhaps I’ve been around to long and seen it wort’s an all .

Re: Labour Party
- Penny Williamson (10th Dec 2022 - 12:59:21)

No Pete I think it is you who need to get a bit of balance stop believing everything you read that appeals to your ideals as gospel. You don’t seem to know much about history. It is always easy to “cherry pick” the things you would like to think are facts and that is what you have been doing. I will now do the same to balance things out. The Labour Party were in power for 13 years from 1997 to 2010. In 2008 there was one of worst financial crisis in history – and please don’t say that it was global and not the fault of the Labour Party. The present financial crisis is also global for possibly different reasons. To continue Tony Blair was PM from 1997 to 2007 during which time he supported George Bush in the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 alleging alongside Bush that the Saddam Hussein regime possessed weapons of mass destruction. Intense criticism came when neither WMD stockpiles nor evidence of an operational relationship with al-Qaeda were found. Dr David Kelly who supported this publicly subsequently allegedly committed suicide although at least 4 doctors have challenged this. Many people think that following this illegal war, Iraq is now in a far worse state - it certainly isn't better off. So Pete before you continue to defile the Government take a long look at history. The Conservative party may well be the worst form of government until you look at all the others and BTW you haven’t answered my question about silver being given away by the Conservatives

Re: Labour Party
- paul (10th Dec 2022 - 13:48:59)

Hi,
The Labour party as any official opposition want power of government.
They are well ahead in the polls. and will do, or say, anything not to upset the electorate, even by their finance backers the Unions.

We are a busted flush as a country after the pandemic financially.
Industry will strike and for good reason over pay, conditions, and working practises.

Inflation for any country is the big bad monster in the room. With it's peoples not being able to live and afford things.

As a country (6th richest in the world) we need to borrow as a government on a long term basis.
Allow workers this year to fund 10% + increases for the next 12 months, or big welfare payments to all employees for this period.
After that, economically things could have changed, war in Ukraine etc.

It is a big price as a one-off to pay, but we did it through furlough etc of the pandemic. Bite the bullet, let our country get back on it's feet, and life for our future generations.

Re: Labour Party
- John Heywood (12th Dec 2022 - 23:05:15)

There are none so blind as Tories who cannot see past the pages of the Daily Mail.

Lady Mone and all the vip fast lane fraud. The Truss/ Kwarteng budget. No apologies for the Brexit nightmare. A liar as Prime Minister etc

Re: Labour Party
- Bernard (12th Dec 2022 - 23:54:47)

Plenty of cherry picking there Penny. It is true that the Iraq invasion was an almighty mistake, but you miss the historical perspective of the UK/US intervention in Kosovo which brought an end to the brutal oppression by Slobodan Milošević, saving countless lives. Bush almost certainly brought pressure on Blair to 'return the favour' by involving the UK in his sordid Iraq war. You also fail to mention the almost complete eradication of child poverty, the introduction of the National Minimum Wage, civil partnerships, Freedom of Information legislation, the Good Friday agreement bringing peace to Northern Ireland, parental rights, Sure Start etc. etc.

On the economy, we had continuous year-on-year growth coupled with low inflation, until the global economic crash, triggered by the sub-prime mortgage book collapse in the USA.

Yes, Gordon Brown shouldn't have sold the gold and Blair should have stood up more to Bush. But, there is a fundamental difference between Blair's government (and ALL modern day governments before it) and the self-serving lightweight amateurs in government now. No one, even right-wing tabloid readers, can truly believe that Boris Johnson, Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak are statespeople, who put public service beyond their own ambitions. We see senior Conservatives looking to quit at the next election, because their commercial value is higher as an ex-minister than as an opposition MP, a total mockery of the pretence of public service. We see the appalling Boris and his successor who crashed the UK economy in a matter of weeks, both put in power by a minute and self-selecting handful of people. The self-serving bunch in power deserve our utter contempt and the sooner they are out of government, the better. One or two terms out might reset the Conservatives as a One Nation party. I'm not a Labour voter, but I observe that Keir Starmer is fundamentally decent and a cut-above those on the government benches. I also see see that he has the courage to stand up to the more extreme elements of his party, rather than pander to them as we see from successive Conservative leaders.

Just a bit of balance.

Re: Labour Party
- Penny Williamson (13th Dec 2022 - 10:12:26)

Bernard As I said in my post I was cherry picking on purpose as do most people who post on this site including yourself. People will always use the argument most suited to their ideal. So let's wait and see if Labour can improve things as I am sure they will win the next General Election. Perhaps that will turn out to be the best. I predict that one day David Miliband will come back into prominence in the Labour Party and become Leader/PM. If he had been chosen to lead the Labour Party in 2010 instead of his brother Ed we would not have had a Corbyn. If the Conservatives had voted for David Davis to lead the Conservative Party in 2005 instead of David Cameron there was a good chance we would not have had a Brexit. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

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