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Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - paul (20th Sep 2021 - 21:59:33) Hi, Many local and national community websites are very successful for all that live in that area. Helping and supporting residents to make their village/town better to live-in. Historically the Liphook online presence has never achieved this. Often not helpful, or some reply that is very poor in taste. Hiding behind a keyboard making comment, is not something to be proud of to improve our local life. Let's make a weekly post that all of Liphook resident's can be proud of, and banish the cynical guys who do not help our family lives in Liphook.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Pete (20th Sep 2021 - 23:58:54) This site has no email verification so users are free to create posts using any email address they make up; some form of email verification would help. In addition, the users should be using some identifiable first name. You might all cry privacy and the right to be anonymous but you do not see many trolls getting far on the likes of Facebook using their own accounts, as the poster is somewhat identifiable and there is effort required to keep setting up credible accounts. The current system means users can post under many different aliases, many made up emails addresses and connecting via home/phone/proxy/vpn ip addresses that one large discussion probably is dominated by just one person pretending to be 6 different people. This is the first time I have looked at the site in years as I have become fed up using it due to most posts descending into trolling by what appears to be keyboard warriors identifying themselves however they like. If they at least had an account attached to an email address and had to login then it would present too much work for them to drive by troll as freely as I suspect they do. The email would also benefit the site and its users if we had notification via email off updates to interesting posts.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - D (21st Sep 2021 - 07:47:57) If you know how to (I don't) you can find anyone's full name and details on this website. Joe found out mine.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Joe (21st Sep 2021 - 09:20:51) It is not surprising that some posters do not use their names or want to be identified? A lot of the views posted are extreme and sometimes offensive and although there is some moderation some posters say things on here they would not dare to say to the person with opposing views to that persons’ face.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - passfield resident (21st Sep 2021 - 17:54:01) The answer would be for the moderator or adminisrator to set out some rules relating to insulting/ rude posts so that people's posts won't be included if they are just getting at previous posters rather than making any intelligent point. It would be censorship, of course, but it would make the site more constructive.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - D (21st Sep 2021 - 19:49:00) Interesting how we have three people preaching against the issue of anonymity on social media websites, and don't give their full names. Pots and kettles.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Ian (21st Sep 2021 - 20:54:41) What is the measure of intelligence? Sometimes people get offended and throw accusations of rudeness simply because someone has a different opinion! Unfortunately in many cases it’s a case of “just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you are right”

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - passfield resident (22nd Sep 2021 - 09:40:15) Ian-I agree, but there have been lots of posts I've seen where the main point of the post is just to have a go at another poster. Then the thread becomes nasty and you see the downside of forums and anonymity

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - C (22nd Sep 2021 - 09:55:07) I think it is fair enough to have a screen name - many online forums have this. Some people may have a good reason to not show their real name. What is frustrating is the way that many posts that start off with a sensible enquiry or opinion quickly get off track with some very strong views unrelated to the original post. I do think that some clear rules would help, possibly with such posts being subject to a higher level of moderation before being shown? The Editor clearly has a very difficult job - maybe he /she needs some support from eg an editorial group among whom contentious posts could be discussed?

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Don (22nd Sep 2021 - 12:17:13) I don't think you will ever stop people going off topic - recently on a Guildford community forum someone enquired if Hamleys were going to open up in the town and some troll ridiculed the debate as "first world problems" and the thread descended into an online argument about government policy and Afghan refugees - inevitably pathetic!

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - The Artist Formerly Un-known as er (22nd Sep 2021 - 12:25:19) Whilst it's fair to say one or two of the threads have occasionally gone off on one, sometimes too personal which could be cut out by those who cannot control themselves better, please don't close down all the interesting if often rambling debate, opinions matter too! Facebook is Facebook and not everything in life needs to be as Facebook surely? Who is to say others have not benefitted from an editorial policy that often allows discourse to run it's course, alongside, or often about housing etc, (all sorts of diverse views there) to skate parks, youth facilities (ditto), lost watches through to upcoming jam sales in the village hall, I understand that is something the Editor does try to balance and does moderate! C, I am fascinated about this hypothetical let's say, Parish of Liphook Village Moderation Committee, maybe it could be an offshoot of the Parish Council, I suppose it could work. Would it be weighted upon our prevailing Judeo-Christian ethics (thinking Mary Whitehouse here), would debate about Climate Action be in or out, would invitations to attend Church be off limits as (in the committee's benign judgement) offensive to non-Christians or encouraged for our salvation, what if someone objects to keeping animals for meat, should the villagers not debate and hold an annual election to ensure our fully inclusive committee doesn't become a clique, to achieve by strict means, success 'for all' (or a vision of it, anyway)? Because someone is not called Jennifer or Bob doesn't mean the handle they present isn't their chosen name! Are we allowed to debate and can a debate lead( like a conversation) to other thoughts and ideas, or must it always be brought straight back to the OP question/statement (I have/haven't seen your lost dog.)? Will the Liphook Committee decide publicly or in private meeting/ will appeals be allowed, can the press attend? Questions, questions, questions, make your voice heard or else maybe the Village Committee will decide what's good for us to read:)

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - D (22nd Sep 2021 - 13:00:32) In answer to the original post, it is what it is. If you don't like what you read then give it a miss. "Improve the community website for all going forward"? I find this very condescending to say the least. Smacks of someone recently moved to Liphook trying to educate all us ignorant carrot crunchers. On yer bike, Sunshine.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Pete (22nd Sep 2021 - 13:14:39) We should bare in mind that whilst the Editor has responsibilities this is a free service to its users and unlike Facebook its not a billion dollar website. The suggesting of tying users to an email address and account/login for this site is the best one in my opinion, it has no impact on anonymity as the email addresses will only be needed to setup and access talk back they wont be visible to other users. The reason this changes and improves the contributions to this site is A. Users accounts can be banned B. Banned or misbehaving users will need to go through the pain of setting a new valid email address to get back in and thus might control their outbursts better. Currently anyone can come onto the site, claim their email address is god@heaven.com or madeup123@google etc say what they want, use whatever name they want, and then even reply to themselves 3 mins later or repeat this over and over with whatever made up name and email they fancy. The current setup facilitates trolls as the requirements to access the site are non existent. I think my post answers the title question, are we back on track now? and how long will it be before it descends into the dark again ?

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Joe (22nd Sep 2021 - 13:42:05) ER or ( Russ E ) I think taking a thread off the point and diverting it into another subject all together is what most people find annoying on here. I personally take exception to being told on here that my opinion or knowledge is not as valid as someone’s who has lived here longer than me. Facebook employ lots of people to decide whether to delete a posting or not. Someone has to decide, and some postings on here have been deleted before now.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Pete (22nd Sep 2021 - 16:24:25) D, What is wrong with recently moving to Liphook? is moving here a crime? do any newbies need to go and visit you to get your approval? are you suggesting the length of habitation in Liphook means a difference in rights between those whom have been here longer? Maybe the newbies might bring fresh ideas and resources for all, perhaps they might build a time machine and send people whom have a discrimination against newbies back to the stone ages to make them a little more comfortable? Will D become E later in support of D's comments and is the person behind D making 90% of the posts on this site under many different names? who knows its a misery.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - E in support of D (22nd Sep 2021 - 18:54:34) Pete, you are not going to "improve the Liphook community website for all going forward" with posts like that. I see nothing wrong with being content with things the way they are. It is ironic that your message to me is exactly the sort you condoned earlier on this thread. If you will excuse me I have to strike flints in my cave for the fire tonight, it keeps the woolly mammoths at bay.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Pete (22nd Sep 2021 - 23:09:25) D thanks for illustrating my point by changing your name and contributing to why email tied accounts might improve things. How frequently exactly have you changed your name when contributing to this site? And with your statement below whereby you discriminate against anyone new to the village you fully deserved my charming response. Had I suggested you get on your bike because you been around a while would you be pleased? No I wouldn’t think so yet your not getting it, happy to dish it out, switch identities and repeat. Your a troll, exactly the sort of contributor that isn’t improving the site. And your only defence is some people like things the way they are. Your actually highlighting that you don’t wish tho contribute, you want to retain your trolling freedom, and that means your not really part of the wishes of the others D: Smacks of someone recently moved to Liphook trying to educate all us ignorant carrot crunchers. On yer bike, Sunshine.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - F, a friend of E who supports D (23rd Sep 2021 - 07:28:19) Pete, if you ask the editor you will find I have never changed my identity on this website. "On yer bike" is hardly offensive, I've had far worse and not batted an eyelid. Maybe people are far more sensitive (insecure?) than they were in the stone age. As for discriminating between old residents and newcomers, I think it's YOU trying to stir up that argument, Sunshine.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - joe (23rd Sep 2021 - 09:20:45) The original poster has a valid point. Reasoned discussion goes out of the window. It is no surprise that ER and D support each other on here, as D is the son of E R, who is now calling himself "E" or "F", and they both proclaim the nonsense that only those who have lived here the longest, have the right to say what is best for the area. That obviously includes this website!

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - er (23rd Sep 2021 - 10:24:03) Joe, er isn't any other contributor and never has been any of the ones above, so stop guessing, I used the monicker The Artist Formerly Un-Known as er once above to illustrate a point that people's names can be as varied, ridiculous or unconventional as they like nowadays it's quite common to be known legally as something other than your birth name, a humorous reference to Prince I'm sure you got, maybe some people do or don't reply to themselves, but I never have found it necessary to talk to myself (yet!) but do like having a username, for many reasons. Either TalkBack (clue in the name) goes the 'lost puppies and no good discussions' route which is ok, or keeps user names and encourage the freedom of people in Liphook to experiment with thoughts and debate which involves an element of risk in today's society of recrimination, people have been hounded out of jobs for stupid things written as teens etc, based upon campaigns by lobby groups even where no law was broken, I don't think the type of debate here is likely to be 'career ending' but I think a lot of us who are not professional writers, still appreciate the good sense of writing their thoughts while taking up the offer of using a pen-name. I don't know about you, but my ideas/opinions are not fixed and I would hope yours aren't either (and I don't spend too long thinking them through or professionally reviewing them, and so I don't necessarily wish to be defined by one or two for the rest of time!). As for registering with an email address, I don't know about the rest of you, but I have to each time I post, it's not registering exactly, but part way.. If the Editor chooses a different registration system or takes the site in a different direction fine, that's entirely up to him/her, I wouldn't like to think people are replying to themselves either, but however it's managed I'd rather see it left to the site Admin thanks:)

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - D (23rd Sep 2021 - 11:49:18) Peter and Joe, rather than making ridiculous accusations and assumptions, maybe you should get together with Paul and set up your own alternative community website which you can mould to your own utopian perfection. I don't see you're going to achieve anything with your aggressive confrontational demeanour reminiscent of the mob in "Van Helsing". Good day.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Lyndon (23rd Sep 2021 - 12:50:15) my main concern is the lack of accountability when blatant falsehoods are used to besmirch business. This affects livelihoods and reputations and on many official review sites there is better accountability and safeguards. That being said we are in the middle of a "social media revolution" which will probably run for a generation or so until etiquette, rules and structure are establish and become the norm

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Pete (24th Sep 2021 - 10:51:25) Thoroughly checked everything and there is nothing aggressive, confrontational about my demeanour, I suggest you check your emotions before you type D, your either unhappy I put you in check or your actually looking for trouble, both classic anonymous troll characteristics. This post is about improvements to the site, you contribution is so far A. You don’t like new people in the village. B on your bike C. A whole load of Aggro D. A personification of the reason some of us would like changes so there is less characters like you polluting the site. Everyone wants freedom of expression, but nearly every post on this site goes off topic and into insults, this isn’t speakers corner we are using, it’s a community website and if the posts on this site is an example of how we are as neighbours it’s not very good is it.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - passfield resident (24th Sep 2021 - 13:39:48) I'll tell you how we are as neighbours-Sainsburys have a polite sign asking people to continue wearing masks in the shop if they can, but large numbers of people ignore it . That's how we are-a majority of considerate, sensible people and a substantial minority of selfish, ignorant people.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - D (25th Sep 2021 - 08:32:02) I agree, Passfield Resident. What you say is borne out by the events at Sainsbury's petrol station yesterday. Sheer greed and selfishness. It looked like something from a third world country not a relatively affluent middle class area like Liphook. Oh yes, wonderful neighbours we have.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Mary W (25th Sep 2021 - 09:30:39) Shame so many can’t debate sensibly. I would say Liphook Talkback is the best local website I have found - it would be a pity to ruin it with loads of regulations. I check out subjects that interest me and when trolls come in I read and revel in the differences between people - it reminds me there are lots of ignorant and ill educated people in our society, ones I don’t normally come into contact with, but they have a right to be heard. It would be good if we could personally block the really stupid ones, like I do on Twitter, but Talkback is small, and I can easily skip the posts I dislike or that bore me. God forbid we ever become like that newish mish mash thing called Next Door that is impossible to use easily, where you can never find a post that might have been personally relevant and that requires signing in every five minutes. I use my middle name because my first name is unique. And I like the ability to change my pen name if trolling became personal.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Pete (25th Sep 2021 - 22:23:21) Mary, How can you marry that you don't want to "ruin it with a load of regulations" with your want to "block the really stupid ones"? Am not having a go but you want both things here, Currently its a complete free pass so blocking isn't effectively possible. You have a set of credentials for nearly everything you use online, be that banking, ordering goods, social media etc. No one is suggestioning a world of regulations, all that is being suggested is posters need to login using an email address... that's it, nothing more. A email address that is validated by having to click a validation link send to that email address upon account setup is all that's being suggested. Once that is done people sign in using that email address and a password and they are free to contribute. If any of them are behaving badly the editor can then either warn them to that email address, or block that account. Of course the misbehaving users can go setup a new account by the same method but eventually the administration burden of setting up fake emails addresses will catch up with the idiots and they might temper their rants a little. I strongly suspect this measure alone will eliminate the fakers and the trolls to a sufficient degree we all see a significant improvement to this site. Anyone against this is likely already a Troll wanting to protect their own troll rights

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - D the polluting troll (26th Sep 2021 - 09:01:44) In this world of high tech electronics I'm surprised at the use of the word "troll". To me it's a word you might hear in a school playground but doesn't have any use in adult life. The word "troll" seems to have adopted the same meaning and use as "heretic" in religion. A means of silencing people you don't agree with. Which, it could be argued, makes those who use it control freaks. In answer to the title of this thread, I think the answer is "no". But given the fanaticism shown by a few individuals for all contributors on this website to be more accountable, maybe they would like to lead the way by publishing their full names and addresses prior to publishing their posts? No, didn't think you would.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Pete (26th Sep 2021 - 12:13:52) No ones ever suggested the account email address is visible to any other users, the only people whom can see the account email address is the editor during account setup, after that the logged in user goes by the very same account alias they want to… so D, you can remain as D and that’s all the rest of us will see, the only difference is you will login and that login is tied to a real verified email address in the background. No address is needed, no full name or real name is needed, no bank account, no blood group, not even your sex or DOB is needed. We store details of the user’s connection, this would allow the police to identify the property any malicious post(s) originated from and generally the device used. Holding a ‘verified’ email would have little advantage. We could only give it the police, which gives them little more than the IP details.

Re: Can we improve the Liphook community website for all going forward? - Dave (26th Sep 2021 - 18:56:11) Editor. IP addresses are nearly meaningless and can only be effectively traced down by the authorities in the event of a crime. Trolls whom annoy others mostly isn’t illegal activity, just annoying, the police are not going to improve this site, the behaviours of its users are. As for you own records of IP address anyone can vary the IP address by any of the following means. - From home if you don’t have a static IP simply reboot your router and a new one will tend to be issued. - From home or indeed anywhere post via your cell data connection, you ip frequently changes on your phone. - Use a coffee shop of guest wifi freely available all over the place - use a proxy - use a VPN The list is endless, anyone with even minor technical ability would be able to post on this site from 10 different IPs a day and half of those have no easily traceable connection back to the poster, as the authorities would only have the IP address of the proxy or VPN provider etc. I think online forums have more legal conditions than is being suggested here, have you checked for any updates as I think the ability to freely post without any form of verified account might actually no longer recommended for a long time now.

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