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Local Talkback
Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.

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A3 Cycle Race - Today
- wolfie smith (4th Aug 2018 - 16:11:56)

Do these guys have to get permission or consent from anybody to hold the race?

How do i object?

Had a hairy moment coming back on the A3 today. Two guys overtaking on bikes and me trying to go round them.

Unbelievably dangerous to allow this race. Especially after the tragic cyclist death at the tunnel not long ago.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Helen (4th Aug 2018 - 17:58:26)

Wait until 23rd sep the sussex
Velo event approx 20k cyclists and 100 miles of closed roads
Starting and finishing at Goodwood.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Eleanor (4th Aug 2018 - 21:01:09)

Totally agree with the original poster. We drove back on the A3 at 5pm and it was a matter of trying to avoid having a serious accident for the 5 miles we drove on it. Glad it was only for that short distance. I am astounded that serious cyclists would risk themselves and other drivers in that way. It is only a matter of time before we hear of another tragedy.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Tom (4th Aug 2018 - 22:09:37)

Can whinge all you like they were not breaking any laws and have just as much permission as you an I to use the road.

Am not a Fan BTW, just saying your wasting your breath on it, you drive into the back of a cyclist 1 2 or 3 a breast then your to blame, same goes for a child in the road or a slow tractor etc, slow down and forget this silly obsession that the roads are just for cars.


Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Elizabeth (4th Aug 2018 - 22:59:27)

The men's race is tomorrow. Must admit I was glad I turned off at Liphook before the race route started. Have two of the competitors staying with me. Held my breath today as I watched from the bridge as one of them rejoined A3. Please take care tomorrow.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Gr (5th Aug 2018 - 07:30:43)

Old a3 or new

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- liz (5th Aug 2018 - 07:59:03)

Roads are not just for cars but they are not for racing or other sports events either. They should be stopped but sadly it will probably take a serious accident before the powers that be realise this is not a good idea - particular with the large volumes of holiday traffic.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Paul Robinson (5th Aug 2018 - 09:01:33)

What sort of race tactic is it that requires cyclists to saunter along the Longmoor Road four abreast chatting?

Paul Robinson

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- concerned (5th Aug 2018 - 11:32:44)

I am extremely concerned about the attitude of cyclists and motorists.

As a motorist, i have witnessed and photographed numerous cyclists 2,3,4 aside. No care for who is at 20mph at some points behind and ensuring their safety stay clear until it safe to overtake.
only once has it ever been acknowledged.

Also, motorists that overtake me not realising how many cyclists are ahead or their road position

Rural roads will be 'locked in' on the 23rd of September. HOW
is this allowed??

Exiting my drive, allowing them right of way to be stuck as they chat, taking up the road is dangerous and unacceptable.

A bit of respect and courtesy all round please!

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Editor (5th Aug 2018 - 13:32:16)

The 100 mile route for 23rd September can be seen here.

www.velosouth.com/the-route/

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- D (5th Aug 2018 - 15:09:24)

Seems Liphook is becoming a magnet for cycle events.
If you're unhappy about this weekend then check out next weekends event.

evanscycles.com/evans-cycles-liphook...

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Paul (5th Aug 2018 - 17:55:18)

I met a group of older cyclists minding their own business south of Petersfield yesterday morning.

They were genuinely upset at having been verbally abused by a number of motorists and taxi drivers that morning over the Velo South road closures - despite it having literally nothing to do with them!

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- concerned (5th Aug 2018 - 18:49:29)

No excuse for that behaviour at all.

Car behind me sounding the horn at cyclists, then one came and hit my wing mirror, thus terrifying child inside.

He continued to shout abuse when we came to a junction.

Re, Velo event.

How can anyone justify closure without contacting residents first as to impact. Not all can walk distances to cars and need access to road for medical reasons




Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Kevin Stephenson (5th Aug 2018 - 20:47:55)

King Car
I am the most important person on the road and my journey is essential to me.
Any person (Cyclist, horse rider, tractor etc.) who interrupts my journey is unwelcome.
I pay car tax and the roads should be a priority for vehicle drivers.
If I am on a trunk road like the A3 I dont want to adapt my driving behaviour to allow for any other road users other than those who can travel at the national speed limit.
I am worried when I confront slow moving cyclists, horses, etc. on roads like the A3 as I worry I could Harm them. To remove this risk they should be banned from the A3 and similar non motorway trunk roads. I am prepared to pay increased taxes to fund proper cycle routes to permit this.
King Bike
I want to be able to ride on all roads that the Highway Code allows. Car drivers dont need to seek permission to do this so why should I.
I want vehicle drivers to follow the Highway Code and allow proper consideration for slow moving users of our roads which includes cyclists, horses, agricultural vehicles and similar.
On dual carriage roads or other roads wide enough to allow vehicles to overtake it is quite acceptable to ride along side cycling friends to have conversations. Your car is wide enough for you to do the same if you have a passenger.
Please Debate.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Rlli (6th Aug 2018 - 09:01:51)

The A3 was never designed for the type of use by cyclists that was seen this weekend. If it carried on then there will be a death.

Regardless of legalities, it is just plain bonkers to have a cycling event (very different from general road cycling) on a dual carriageway on a busy summer weekend with cars, lorries and coaches travelling at 70mph.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Beep beep (6th Aug 2018 - 10:39:05)

I wonder what insurance do the cyclist have to have for racing on the roads ?

Common sense would think insurance for cycling anyway just in case an accident

Hit a pothole broken leg/arm unable to work?
Sensible and polite answers only
Surely All road users should have insurance just in cade ?

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- helen (6th Aug 2018 - 14:08:01)

It appears to me that the organisers of the races have a vested interest in attracting as many cyclists as poss, they charge 25pounds per entry. I
guess it costs money as well to close the roads.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Paul (6th Aug 2018 - 16:48:16)

@Beep beep

I race - not on the A3 - but on closed circuits. My official race licence (following training and accreditation) covers me for 10,000,000 liability.


My insurance premium for this plus my race bike is over 1,000 per year.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Willo (6th Aug 2018 - 19:55:36)

I love that our roads are full of folks on bikes, just regular folks testing themselves in the lovely Hampshire countryside, getting fit and having a blast....makes a change from the knob heads who speed through Standford everyday. I was nearly taken out on my bike last week on Standford hill by some women in a 4 x 4 who had kids in the car, she was half way across the road and over the speed limit but I guess it was important in those conditions to be checking herself out in her rear view mirror on a blind corner. I would like to also pay a particular accolade to whoever thought it was acceptable to throw a crapped on pampers out of their vehicle while driving through Standford.....nice one, if that's how you deal with the nappy god help the future generation.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Robert (23rd Jun 2019 - 10:54:59)

I can’t believe how irresponsible the a3 bike race today is. There were no warnings for drivers to look out or slow down, no traffic control, cyclists riding 4 and 5 feet from the kerb while drivers in the left lane approaching at 50 or 60 mph slow down and swerve while speeding motorists overtake at 70 or 80mph.

Drivers have to slow down but they equally have to be warned in advance.

The organisation of the road race is woefully irresponsible and has placed riders and drivers in unnecessary danger.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Dawn Hoskins (23rd Jun 2019 - 13:14:38)

All we can do is report it to the police, unfortunately, they don't seem that interested.
Someone actually has to die first.
They only act on statistics - so a fatality has to occur for it to be on their radar.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- dave (23rd Jun 2019 - 23:12:12)

Robert - Shouldn't drivers always be on the look out for cyclists? They have just as much right to be the road as the cars.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- J (24th Jun 2019 - 07:50:56)

There is the right to be on the road and there is appropriate use of the type of road. I have been cycling (not competitively) around the local area quite a bit this year trying to get fit, but I wouldn't dream of cycling on the A3 which is practically treated like a motorway. There are cycle paths alongside a lot of it if needed (I realise these are no good for a race). I use to use the A31 between Farnham and Alton and they did the same thing there from time to time, but at least it's a much less busy road than the A3.

The rule (Highway Code 163) is to give a cyclist as much room as a car when overtaking, but it's difficult to pull out in a slower moving vehicle into the outside lane when there is a stream of traffic already doing 70mph or so there. So the slow traffic has to slow down even more for the cyclists, possibly overtaking inappropriately without giving much room, or just holding up all the traffic in the inside lane. Or when they do manage to pull out then faster traffic has to slow more quickly than perhaps expected. The knock-on effect is lots of braking.

I thought I'd heard that someone did get injured a month or so ago on one of these events?

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Bob (24th Jun 2019 - 07:53:44)

Dear Police
I want to report some cyclists on the A3.
Love Dawn

I wonder why the police weren't interested

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Rachael (24th Jun 2019 - 08:00:16)

Dave, that’s a rather naive statement. We’re talking about the A3 here, an extraordinarily busy dual carriageway used by a significant number of lorries as well as cars. It is completely inappropriate for such a road to be used for sporting activity. It was certainly not built or designed for this type of bicycle use

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- dave (24th Jun 2019 - 08:34:42)

The fact that the A3 is not a motorway shows that it was built and designed for all road users.

There is an argument for making it into a motorway (I wish they would) but while it isn't a motorway then it is not a motorway and drivers should expect to see any lawful road user on it and drive accordingly, even it that means using their brakes and slowing down from time to time.

Mass cycling might be more annoying for drivers and cause more hold-ups but it is legal and much safer than cycling alone. The only cyclist fatality I'm aware of on the A3 was a lone cyclist having to move onto the main A3 carriageway where the cycle track abruptly ends.

BTW I'm a driver who finds slow cyclists annoying but respect their right to be there. I would find it more annoying if they had to close the A3 for the cycle races like they do with other races (eg VELO)

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Anon (24th Jun 2019 - 10:25:13)

I can assure you that a lot of competitive cyclists in the wider area don't understand the attraction of riding on the A3 under any circumstances!

You can usually spot the real competitive cyclists. Firstly, they won't take any risks that might cause injury as they lose months of training and let's face it no-one wants to be hit by a car (or to hit anyone with their car). Secondly, they tend to avoid A and busy B roads like the plague, and will usually be out on quiet lanes very early on a Sunday and off the roads by mid-morning. Bit of a generalisation, but in my experience that's what I've noticed.

Having said that - on Saturday I was riding near Shere with my 11 year old. We were both on a cycle path, set about 2m in from the dual carriageway and separated from the road by a wide kerb and grass verge. My 11 year old was pelted with drinks by a car that passed at high speed - he was left absolutely terrified, and in this day and age my very sad first thought was to check that he hadn't been covered in anything corrosive. It was a frightening experience for both of us.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Debbie (24th Jun 2019 - 11:39:33)

J my husband was walking over the A3 footbridge at Griggs Green and a car had just broken down heading south on the bend, the driver was walking towards the Griggs Green turn off.

They had left the car at an angle and my husband thought to himself "That's an accident waiting to happen". On his way back a short time later there were a group of cyclists that had been racing on the A3 all around the car and the Air Ambulance was overhead coming in to land.

From what my what husband saw he seemed to think a cyclist had his head down racing and didn't see the stationary car and ploughed into the back of it. This may be what you're talking about.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- oldie (24th Jun 2019 - 17:04:38)

Dave, as a cyclist I can tell you the A3 was not built for cycling!

It's an anomaly really, the original road from London to Portsmouth went through all the towns and villages, along by Kingston riverside, Liphook Square etc etc. These bypasses were built in the 20th century with I think Liphook bypass being one of the last built.

It's the main route between London and the country's largest port on the south coast, one of the busiest shuttle routes in the world, it remains the A3 because in the meantime an M3 had been built (although it is of course clumsily named the A3(M) in places!).

The stretch from the tunnel to Liphook is one of the most dangerous, characterised by high volume motorway speed traffic, a long sweeping downhill where BMW and Audi drivers like to let rip after the confines of the average speed camera tunnel, yet narrow 'non motorway' sized lanes and no cameras, so it is possibly one of the most dangerous stretches of road to cycle along in Britain, whilst still being, due to a technicality of history, perfectly legal to cycle along!

You wouldn't cycle on a motorway (with a hard shoulder and wide lanes), I'd even less cycle on this!(did it once, hated it).

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- dave (24th Jun 2019 - 18:00:34)

I quite agree, Oldie, it is dangerous and they should either make it a motorway or put in a proper cycle path, but until they do, drivers and cyclists have to share it.

BTW the A3(M) is not the A3 - they take different routes to Portsmouth, allowing cyclists and fast cars to be separated.

Rather than cyclists moaning about drivers and drivers moaning about cyclists, perhaps both should moan to the Highways Agency to get resolution.

I notice that the two pedestrian crossings which no one dare use (Liphook and Witley) have been removed and the Right of Way which they carried revoked, so there is precedent.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- oldie (24th Jun 2019 - 22:04:02)

dave, love the fact about the A3 separating from the A3(M), just checked and can see the A3 goes through Waterlooville. Some people will understandably say that's going off the point (just a little) but I like those sorts of facts!

Damn, you've ruined my party piece fact, that the roundabout at Liss (Ham Barn) is the last true roundabout on the A3 between the City of London and Portsmouth (I've driven it, Elephant and Castle no longer counts), but damn, there's a few in Waterlooville you've thrown a spanner in my 'fun party fact' someone will need to update Wikipedia too ha ha!

As for cycling on the A3 I don't think (as someone said) the Highways Agency are interested, I did write to them a few years back and they just said it's fine!

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Finchie (24th Jun 2019 - 22:58:43)

Safest thing to do is to have a closed road “race” as anyone cycling on the A3 in a pointy hat is a nutter and natural selection may well prevail.

Looking forward to Velo South 2020 though. Suspect 2019 is all about clearing away the pitched fork/drawing pin/garrotting wire brigade.

Can’t wait to contribute to Lord Coe’s coffers in return for a great day out. Hopefully they’ll make enough of a profit to run it every 6 months to liven things up around here.

Delighted this thread has re-emerged.

Have a great week.

Cheers, Finchie


Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- dave (24th Jun 2019 - 23:32:19)

Well there you have it. The Highways Agency says cycling on the A3 is officially fine.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- liz (25th Jun 2019 - 09:23:50)

It's not cycling on the A3 that's the problem it's racing events. You are not allowed to do that in a car so why on a bike? It results in a glut of cyclists, many 'head down and going for it' - see post above - who are not fully watching the road conditions.


Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Ann (25th Jun 2019 - 09:42:45)

Well said Liz - totally agree with you.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Dawn Hoskins (25th Jun 2019 - 12:19:44)

@ Bob

Have you been hacking my emails?

[[Dear Police. I want to report some cyclists on the A3.
Love Dawn]]

Thanks for putting a smile on my face 😀


Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- lac (25th Jun 2019 - 14:39:44)

Cycling down the A3 is back on the radar again. The views expressed are very interesting and all valid.

It's legal, right to the use the road etc. It's your attitude to risk which is the deciding factor.

I'll use a motorcycling analogy to make a point. Motorcyclists never think they are going to fall off their bike or be knocked off. Everyone I know who has ridden a motorbike has fallen off or been knocked off eventually. Fortunately all recovered from their injuries or had very minor injuries. Lady luck decided which and thankfully no one was killed. They all now drive cars (and those that motorcycle do very little mileage)!

The same applies to the current crop of cyclists. Sooner or later everyone falls off or is knocked off their bike. On a bridleway, you may escape with a scraped knee. On a dual carriageway, with tons of metal travelling at 70mph, any incident is going to be very serious. A serious accident is inevitable if cyclist continue to regard this section of the A3 "quiet" and 'rural".

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Janet (26th Jun 2019 - 19:18:49)

It looks as though another race is imminent! I've just seen someone putting up signs on the A3 exit and on ramps at Bramshott.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Bob Cocker (26th Jun 2019 - 22:17:12)

Just seen the most ridiculous diculous and dangerous incident yet. Heading southbound past the Shell garage with a couple of cyclists in lane 1, then a coach appears from the slip road so the two lycra warriors move out into lane 2!! Rather than moderate their speed and allow the coach in. Someone is going to die.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Rachael (13th Jul 2019 - 17:10:09)

Idiots at it again today, unbelievable and so dangerous. Such arrogance as well, it’s sad that it will take a tragic incident before these twerps see sense!

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Debbie (13th Jul 2019 - 18:07:09)

My daughter was driving down the A3 today and she hates trying to overtake the cyclists because of the speed the vehicles are doing in the outside lane making it impossible to overtake the cyclist's and give them the room they need without moving into the fast lane. Because of this so she prefers to go the full length of the cycle race in the outside lane doing 70 but today she had a van right up her rear end which really frightened her and forced her back into the inside diung 70 coming across cyclists. Madness!

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- J (13th Jul 2019 - 18:11:21)

We passed a Victoria Pendleton wannabe cycling in full head gear, head down on a professional bike southbound on the A3.
These people belong on a velodrome, not on a 70 mph dual carriageway.
Cars aren't allowed to race on public roads so the same rule should apply to these loonies. Accident waiting to happen.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- Julie (14th Jul 2019 - 11:32:07)

We were coming home northbound and came off at the Bramshott turning following 2 cyclists who were then pointed back onto the southbound a3 by 2 marshals. Is this a race and if so, are they even allowed to do that on an open road?

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- JH (14th Jul 2019 - 11:49:53)

The A3 is for all types of traffic, including bikes.

But cars are not allowed to race on the Queen's Highway. So why are cyclists allowed to race?

If the cyclists want one rule for everyone, so be it.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- liz (14th Jul 2019 - 12:30:39)

The normal route appears to swap from northbound to southbound at Bramshott. The marshall's use their red flags to stop other traffic going onto the southbound slip road from the bridge but have no control over the cyclists entering the A3. It really is very dangerous particular as the cyclists so often adopt the 'head down' position. It really should be stopped- these are public roads not race tracks.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- oldie (14th Jul 2019 - 13:31:43)

Apparently cyclists are allowed to race on the highway if it's an organised race and the organisers have cleared it with the police and comply with any requirements or conditions the police impose, so basically it seems this has to be given the green light by the police, not sure what considerations the police take into account before making these decisions, if anyone is interested maybe a letter to the local traffic police section would be a good step.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- oldie (14th Jul 2019 - 20:49:54)

Incidentally liz, I believe that unless in a closed road cycling event where road closure orders are in place, civilian marshals would surely have no legal right to stand in the highway and try to direct traffic, or at least you would have no legal duty to follow their instructions. Obviously by the fact that they're standing there means you cannot run them down and should probably follow their instructions, but they have no authority! (because if they do, then on what basis?)

In fact I can't see how the police could authorise them to do this since the police themselves are not above the law, so if this is going on something doesn't seem right. Even if the road is closed by traffic order the marshals themselves don't have any lawful rights to stop traffic (I think), this would be done by normal road closure structure.

Having said that, I'm not knocking marshals who do perform a great safety backup service in these situations, usually I guess for free, doing their best to keep everyone safe.

But if the road is 'open' I can't see how they could be directing, much less impeding traffic flow and if the police have authorised this or based their risk assessment in granting the race on civilian marshals blocking or directing traffic on an open road, I think the rationale is questionable.

Just my usual armchair analysis over a mug of Ovaltine though, so I stand to be corrected or educated!

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- horrid (15th Jul 2019 - 08:43:05)

Caveat - I make no comment about the safety or otherwise of racing on the A3. In calling for anything to be banned however, I would recommend considering the actual number of incidents that have occurred, as this is the only statistical indicator of the likelihood of future incidents occurring.

1. Time trialling (the sort of racing that occurs on the A3) has been going on for over 100 years, on the public highway, preceding the introduction of motor traffic. Cyclists have a legal right to use roads for this purpose, with the exception of Motorways. Making a distinction between motor racing and cycle racing is not analogous for a number of reasons, but the main legal one is that cars (and their drivers) do not have a right of use.

2. Motor racing does occur on the public highway, under regulations commensurate with the safety requirements from vehicles travelling at greater speed and with greater energy. Go to the Isle of Man, or Northern Ireland, or one of the many domestic hill climbs etc.

3. To effectively, and safely race cars, there are requirements in the surface, camber and run offs of roads which are not required by cyclists, and don't exist on most public roads.

4. Very, very few cycle races require a road closure - in contrast motor racing invariably does.

5. Every bicycle race has to have a permit signed off by the police, following an extensive health and safety / risk assessment of the course, and the event. I suggest reviewing the law, and the guidelines from British Cycling and the RTTC, which are very extensive.

6. Oldie - you are not correct - certain events (mostly road races as opposed to time trials) involve the use of accredited marshals, who (in holding a STOP sign) have a legal right to stop traffic. Section 31 Road Traffic Act 1988 and Section 66 Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984, authorises a chief officer to allow any person to place an appropriately authorised sign on a road in order to give directions to traffic. The use of the sign and the authority is confirmed in Department for Transport’s Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions Act in 2016. It is now an offence for drivers to fail to stop for this sign.

7. The purpose of marshals acting with the use of red flags is to draw drivers attention to the presence of cyclists

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- liz (15th Jul 2019 - 08:46:47)

Oldie

As you say yourself if there is a man standing in your way you cannot run him over - whether he is there legally or not! The marshals shouldn't be blocking the roads and the cyclists shouldn't be racing on them and I continue to be amazed that the police allow it.

Re: A3 Cycle Race - Today
- helen (15th Jul 2019 - 10:09:10)

Horrid, by comparing Isle of Man racing and what went on 100 years ago, you are not comparing like with like are you ? The law needs updating as it does for the horse riders who use the A roads.

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