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Local Talkback
Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.

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Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Mike Brown (20th Oct 2008 - 13:42:15)

Does anyone know the position re access to the track surrounding the ranges to the north of the A3? I've been cycling around it for ages but the other day a guy dressed in combat fatigues stopped his land rover and told me that it was only open to walkers. I know you are not allowed inside the perimeter when the red flags are up but had always thought the track itself was OK at any time.

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Sue (20th Oct 2008 - 18:35:50)

A few years ago (about 6) there were signs put up prohibiting cycling round the perimeter. I can only speak for the area that I use. There have been signs that dog walkers at the Woolmer pond area - by Greatham can not let dogs off leads (unless under firm control) from March to end September. Those signs too have gone, but you can still be prosecuted. This particular area is designated a conservation site. I do think that proper, long term signage should be placed for all walkers/cyclists to see now and future users!

I love walking round the pond there, but with a Springer spaniel, can only access it from now to end February.

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Steve Read (20th Oct 2008 - 19:38:36)

Mike,
Don't quote me on this but I think you will find that the track is included in the bannng of cycles etc as per inside.
Ridiculous as this may seem this has been the case for a while now. I used to take my boys round this on their bikes although I used to take note when the red flag was flying.
I can understand inside but the amount of people that used to cycle around the perimeter especially at weekends showed how popular and safe it was away from the roads..
I expect to be corrected by the usuals, although at the mo they are all getting hot and bothered by some skeleton hanging from a tree up the road!

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Dawn Hoskins (20th Oct 2008 - 21:50:15)

I'm sad to say that the banning of bikes on the track 'allegedly' came about after a man tried to sue the M.O.D. when he fell off his bike - as it is very loose gravel in places.

I was told this when we moved the area some years ago.

How the actions of some affect all!!!


Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Vicki (20th Oct 2008 - 22:07:01)

Hee hee! Love the HUMOROUS side to your post Steve!

Seriously, I think you are right about the cyling. I have used the area as the kids can let off steam in some safety, but I was lead to believe that we aren't meant to ride there so we stopped.

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- barbara easton (21st Oct 2008 - 13:19:16)

legal note- If the paths in questions are footpaths only then cyclists do not have the automatic right to use them. MOD land is classed as private land ownership not public highways land.

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Sue w (21st Oct 2008 - 19:43:28)

Just to confirm that I am at times a complete saddo, I had a quick scan over the MOD rules that stand at all major accesses to their land. It states that you can ride and cycle etc on surfaces correctly maintained for vehicular access, but not on roads that are not. Now most of the perimeter is suitable for army land rovers etc, but not maintained adequately for general road use.

From this I would presume they have a legal right to stop access, as Dawn stated, someone may sue them!


Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Finchie (22nd Oct 2008 - 00:03:14)

Sue w - you said it ! But I find it both interesting and useful - what does that say about me ? If it truly says "maintained for vehicular access", my vehicle is a cycle and I can access the surface.

I feel a peoples fight against the MOD coming on. We need to rise now. We need to join together and start an action group and demonstrate - a ride out on the said MOD land. We should call it ...

Cyclists Ride Against Pointless Exemption of Road users
(CRAPER)

Anyone care to join me ?

But seriously - why should we NOT cycle on it ! It's not on the ranges, it is safer than on the road, the freeloading ar$e that tried to sue the MOD should be named and shamed - and forced to buy stabilisers. Idiots like them force organisations to ignore common sense and come up with ridiculous rules and regulations. If some jumped up sergeant major spouted that irrelevant b/s to me I'd tell him where to go - loaded AK47 or not (and then I'd cycle like bugger and pray he was not on "live" exercise!).

Cheers, Finchie

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Stephen (22nd Oct 2008 - 09:05:34)

Fight the MoD? Don't they have guns and bombs and stuff? I'll stay quiet on this one.

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- SueW (22nd Oct 2008 - 09:13:04)

Finchie,

Here's another one for you


F.O.O.L





....(Fight of obstinate loony!)

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Barbara Easton (23rd Oct 2008 - 11:23:51)

I do not think you will find there are any access"rights across private land such as MOD Land. The only access rights would apply to footpaths and walkers on those footpaths. and cyclists are not meant to cycle on footpaths at all. Cyclists are classed as road users and subject to fines if they ride bikes on pavements or jump red lights. Cycling on a footpath- there is a legal penalty. The only other permission would be for horseriders to use designated bridleways.

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Dawn Hoskins (24th Oct 2008 - 08:58:27)

taken from the M.O.D. link below......On the MOD Estate cyclists can use a vast array of Bridleways when byelaws permit access and a wide number of other paths and tracks where access has been permitted including sections of the National Cycle Network. These are detailed locally.

So, the problem here is that there has not been info' at a local level - so we are all left to guess at the situation.

www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet...

The Defence Estate Access and Recreation Officer can
be contacted at:

Richard Brooks
Defence Estates
Land Warfare Centre
Warminster
Wiltshire
BA12 0DJ
Email: richard.brooks@de.mod.uk
Telephone: 01985 222913

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Sue (24th Oct 2008 - 10:22:27)

The local by-laws are what is printed on the boards at the major entrances as explained above.

I did not write it down, and certainly not going to do so, and if anyone is at all concerned they are posted for all to see.

When I posted the previous note, it was not taken as a word for word quote, but rather my quick understanding of the rules. It did not actually say 'Vehicular access', but that to ride it must be a properly constructed and maintained surface for use by vehicles.

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- barbara easton (24th Oct 2008 - 10:58:23)

I guess then it is up to us to check the local maps. Where a footpath say footpath, it does not mean Bridleway, this has to have a Bridleway sign.I know there possibly are future plans to include some linkage with National Cycle Routes when the Hindhead Tunnel has been finished, but these will have proper signs also. I think one can safely say then Dawn not really legal unless there is a bridleway sign, or cycleroute sign locally around in the Liphook area? Also when you say local byelaws is that Hampshire only or Surrey could be different again?

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Dawn Hoskins (24th Oct 2008 - 11:06:51)

OK

thanks Sue.

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Mike Brown (24th Oct 2008 - 13:12:42)

Just to clarify:

Footpaths (Yellow arrows) - no cycling/horseriding allowed, only walkers
Bridleways (Blue Arrows) - walkers, cyclists and Horseriders allowed (not just Horseriders)
B.O.A.T (Byeways Open to All Traffic - Red arrows) - pretty much anyone, including 4x4s and motorbikes

There is a footpath that runs along part of the track (at the Conford entrance) and then disappears down to the A3.

I have contacted the MOD and had a holding response that they are 'looking into it' and will get back to me. I'll post their final response when I get it.

We are so lucky in Liphook to have a huge amount of rights of way which can be used to enjoy the surrounding countryside and avoid the traffic and it's just a shame that this can't be one of them since it seems ideally suited in every other respect.

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Mike Brown (29th Oct 2008 - 13:24:22)

Hi everyone

I received the following response from the MOD:

"Dear Mr Brown.
 
I have spoken directly with the site managers relating to your query and the issue of cycling is a complicated one.
 
The current, but historic, byelaws for this site do actually prohibit the use of bicycles on this particular part of our estate. However, in reality this is unenforceable and not necessarily in line with current MOD policy and best practice.  The Land Wardens and Training Area Marshalls who police the area may on occasions stop and advise cyclists that this activity is not permitted under the byelaws and indeed may well direct cyclists away from heavily used areas in the interest of safety. This is to ensure that cyclists are aware that they are undertaking their activity at their own risk as it is not a permitted activity.
 
The byelaws at this site (and indeed every MOD property) are currently under review and new byelaws will be in place in due course which will clarify the position- needless to say we will take a positive attitude towards the safe and sensible recreational use of our estate in fulfilling our policy of a presumption in favour of public access where appropriate. In the meantime please follow the directions given by any of the estate staff  and accept any liability for your own activity."

So for the time being it looks like we shouldn't cycle on the track but seems as though this might change in the future - let's hope so.

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Sue W (29th Oct 2008 - 15:16:40)

Its good to get the 'official' view point, and hope they will allow better access for people to enjoy but ......


Only today an older couple (about 50+), came strolling down the road next to the rifle range while the RED flag was flying!!!

I asked politely if they had noticed the flag, and quite pertinently was told, 'Yes, but they are not using this range, but firing over there' - pointing to the nearby one – about a ½ a mile away.

All the time people decide for themselves which rules they will follow, we may find the whole area blocked

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Mike Brown (7th Nov 2008 - 13:49:36)

Just a further update on this. Had a response from the guy at MOD Estates saying that earliest the bye law review would be completed would be April 2010! Apparently a consultation kicks off in April 2009. Details at [ http://www.defence-estates.mod.uk/byelaws/Internet/Intro.php ]. Looks like it will be a while before this is resolved.

Mike

Update Feb 2013 the link for bye laws is now www.gov.uk/ministry-of-defence-byelaws

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Finchie (7th Nov 2008 - 20:17:06)

Mike that is "web speed". The tunnel took 20 + years.

Consultation: Make sure we involve the public, gather opinion, look at all angles, - then go ahead and do what was planned anyway.

Very pleased the Highways Agencies "consulted" on the opinion to save the old A3 and then ignored opinion ! We had STOAT (Save The Old A Three).

I think we should preempt this consulation and set up ..
"The Wider Acces To Services-land"

Anyone up for it ?!

Happy Weekend.

Cheers, Finchie

[editor - tee hee, I'll let you get away with that !]

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- Dave (20th Apr 2018 - 13:50:32)

Hi there, new to the area and was really looking forward to cycling around here, however there is now a Danger sign on the new metal gates off of the Longmoor Road just past The Deers Hut. Technically you could get under the wooden post and rail type fence next to it but I thought it would be fine to use as long as you don't go inside the boundary when the red flags are up.. Am I missing something here? or is it now ok to cycle on?

Re: Access rights on track around the Woolmer Ranges
- lac (21st Apr 2018 - 19:48:57)

I think I know where you're describing. It's the gate opposite the White House which accesses the route leading up to the footbridge over the A3. The landowner kindly permits transit across this part of their land as its safer than using the bridle way which leads directly onto the Longmoor Rd nearer the Deers Hut. They have been doing some forestry work in recent times, hence the warning signs on the gate. I'm afraid there is no officially sanctioned cycling access to army land unless using OS marked bridle ways. However, the MoD has taken a relaxed view to cycling on their land in recent years, so there should be no problem using their paths. My understanding it that someone tried to sue the MoD after coming off their bike on army land and this led to a blanket ban on cycling. Thankfully wiser counsel eventually prevailed and cycle access to Longmoor and surrounds is tolerated. Occasionally it's barred when army exercises make it dangerous to cycle but of course no access is allowed to the fenced area when red flags are flying. There are miles of bridle ways marked on OS maps which can legally be used by cycles (and horses) in the area, so enjoy your cycling!

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