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Resurfacing disgrace - Peter shepherd (22nd May 2012 - 19:55:58) After two appalling efforts to resurface the London road in Liphook,they are back again after it completely broke up after one hot day today. We as tax payers are financing this farce, heads should bloody well roll!! Disgusting. I have merged two identical threads 'Roads Melting' and 'Resurfacing disgrace'

Roads Melting - M (22nd May 2012 - 20:10:45) Has anyone else noticed the roads melting under the heat of day???? Tar all up my car going down the old Portsmouth Road and the same along the old London road going past Radford Park which has just been re surfaced?A total waist of money if you ask me.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Huw (22nd May 2012 - 20:52:45) The sooner people realise that this surface dressing is simply not fit for purpose the better within a few days of installation the surface dressing was as good as non existant on the bends by the park entrances The stock excuse usually, is that the heat causes this but i think as we have had the wettest drought ever that excuse will fall on deaf ears. If anyone had their driveway covered in this fashion and it failed in this manner you would be calling the contractor back to rectify it

Re: Roads Melting - gina (22nd May 2012 - 21:02:08) absolutely disgusting,.....ive been up and down the old portsmouth road a few times today,...and my tyres where covered in tar,..and then as i came into church road,..my tyres then collected all other debris.....at one point, as i waited to come out of the junction, at tower road, a young girl crossed the road,..and had to leave her shoe, in the middle of the road,..because it got stuck, in the sticky tar!! a disgrace, total waste of money!

Re: Roads Melting - Richard (22nd May 2012 - 21:05:26) I thought it was my imagination until the grit started coming off my motorcycle front tyre. Good thing I had the visor down! Do our local councillors (Parish and County) have any suggestions on how to get aproper job done?

Re: Roads Melting - E (22nd May 2012 - 23:03:02) Well who do we report it to? Moaning on here won't get it solved. I agree it is a disgrace and we back on to it, so it's covered our windows in dust, again. They seem to be the same thing between midhurst and lavant. I thought after dressing the road they are supposed to Tarmac it?!

Re: Roads Melting - iwik61 (23rd May 2012 - 07:56:06) reported this to hcc highways about the same thing thru bordon and whitehill yesterday and they have put something like sand over it .Please report this so the contractors will remedy it or they will get paid for a shoddy job.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Rich (23rd May 2012 - 10:39:09) Totally agree, drove over it this morning and it is in a terrible state. Surely by now they should go back to using proper tarmac.

Re: Roads Melting - liz (23rd May 2012 - 10:39:37) I have also reported the dangerous state of Liphook's road surfaces to HCC. The more people that complain the better I would say - before we get rain on the melted tar! - Liphook dodgems!!

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - E (23rd May 2012 - 11:59:38) Totally agree. I know someone who phoned East Hants to complain - they said they'd had hundreds of calls. Please carry on complaining until they get the message that we want proper tarmac. Not that London Road particularly needed resurfacing in the first place. Telephone number to complain - 0845 6035633 The workmen relaying the road last night were laughing as they did it. The dust being kicked up by vehicles (many of whom are speeding even for roads without loose gravel by the way) makes it like driving in fog. Cars, drives, windows etc filthy and can't have windows open even. How are we supposed to wash this vile dust out of the mechanical underparts of our cars without using a hose? Talk about endangering people's safety. Not to mention cars wrecked by tar from yesterday. Loose chippings all over the pavements as they have been perpetually since this farce first started. What is wrong with this country? I have seen better (properly tarmac laid roads) on TV in Vietnam! Please complain (like I am) to whomever you can think of - MP, BBC News, local papers, radio etc. Let's make these brain dead, penny pinching bureacrats accountable for their utter disregard for local people and property. By the way if anyone is or knows a surveyor or someone who knows about aggregate etc, perhaps they could give a professional opinion. How are we supposed to be proud of Britain in this Jubilee and Olympic year when we can't even lay roads?!!!!

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Chrissy (23rd May 2012 - 13:23:44) It's not just Liphook!! The road surfaces in Liss where they have attempted a poor repair job are just as bad. The council must have got the tarmac bandits to do a job lot!! The pavements in Liphook are terrible to walk on having been splattered with grit from cars kicking up the loose grit off the badly (so called) repaired roads.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Tina (23rd May 2012 - 19:03:57) Its a joke, I am fed up with dust all in my house and loose chippings flying everywhere. And now the sound of melting tar all evening to listen too. Its a total waste of money, I can not beleive how many times they have been back to fix what should be a simple task. Why is it everything is done on the cheap and then cost double to fix it. I will also phone Hampshire Highways to complain.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Richard (23rd May 2012 - 19:18:58) You would hope the Police would set a good example on a recently gritted road and keep their speed down to minimise dust...? Not a chance. A police MPV this morning went up the London Road, I thought he was laying a smoke screen (and no his blue lights were not on at the time)

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - tony m (23rd May 2012 - 20:22:01) The 10mph max speed limit is a joke, they know a modern car can't drive that slowly without almost stalling. They might as well say have a man with a red flag walk in front of you. It's the equivalent of two fingers from the council, they've covered themselves legally and we're all criminals and the babies in prams get lungs filled with grit and dust. Cheers. I tried driving at 10mph along the Portsmouth road a few weeks back when they did it there, the cars behind were overtaking on my inside, outside, I think they wanted to get out and throttle me. In the end I gave up.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Nick McA. (24th May 2012 - 12:59:49) For what it is worth, I have just added my voice (again) to someone at Hampshire Highways about the appalling mess - up on our local main roads. Have been told some one will be touch from the engineering dept. Don't leave it to the web site.Talk to someone on 0845 603 5633 Talking to NEHDC is probably a waste of time.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Dee McGrath (24th May 2012 - 13:18:08) Hi I have just phoned and put my 5 penny worth into the pot. The lady I spoke to said they do seem to be getting a lot of complaints about the roads in Liphook. Told me some one would ring me about it. I am not holding my breath. Dee x

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Frustrated (24th May 2012 - 17:54:17) Re London Rds disgrace, this afternoon 4pm, road sweeper there clearing edge of road, Worker in high viz jacket walking along centre of road kicking stones from centre onto the tar rivers. How long will they stay there? No cones, or warnings, hope he is insured. Health and Safety would have a field day!

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - susie (25th May 2012 - 20:02:23) I drove through Bordon this afternoon and they have the same problem, I actually watched pancake sized pieces of the road lifting of under tyres! Cowboys, I'm surprised the press hasn't run with this yet. And where's Dom Littlewood?

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Simon Coyte (25th May 2012 - 21:06:44) I Writing this having spent the day driving french mountain roads with temperatures higher than Liphook. Some 300 miles and not one bit of sticky tarmac, (can't see the front of my van for dead flies) The problem with Hampshire roads is the contractor. West Sussex are surface dressing and their contractor is doing an excellent job around Midhurst Chichester and Petworth. I suspect Hampshire are using a bitumen with a low melting point and not rolling the chippings in well enough. What a mess

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Mark (26th May 2012 - 09:11:04) This is a big disgrace, a cheap solution going wrong, a hot potatoe we call it in sales. the same thing happened in Lindford last year and it was redone several times, you think they would have learnt their lesson. The whole thing will cost them more now sorting it out. The council need to look at themselves and sack who is in charge, My van is covered in tar ok its a van but what about the people with nice cars or even brand new ones. I bet the council will not pay out compensation to us for having to have our cars treated to get the tar removed a massive joke

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Jackie moss (26th May 2012 - 10:10:45) I live on the Portsmouth road and the resurfacing of the road is a disgrace,I had to cross the road yesterday and my shoe got stuck in the tar,there is tar all over my car,it is shocking,must be a bunch of cowboys doing the roads!!they have come along 3 times now to just drop stones on top,which are everywhere and there is now dust flying everywhere,have to shut my windows,can\'t put any washing out,it\'s got to be a health hazard.what a waste of our money.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - liz (26th May 2012 - 12:13:29) Absolute shambles in Liphook yesterday evening as the contractors once again tried to solve the problem by applying yet more 'chippings' -actually seems more like dirty talcum powder with bits in. No warning signs of road works from most approach roads. No traffic control apart for one man running in front trying to slow down the traffic. Very dangerous - almost suicidal- as he ran ahead trying to stop the fast moving north bound traffic approaching the railway bridge by the golf course. We need a proper resurfacing job done before there is a serious accident. (Yes, I have contacted HCC - just got the automated reply so far.)

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Nick McA. (26th May 2012 - 14:43:10) I had at last a call from Mike Pillans from Highways, Traffic and Transport who had been to see the "Disgrace" for himself. He told me that instructions have been given to the Contractors to start putting things right from yesterday afternoon (25th.) Given that the whole business is in fact a "money saving scheme" I don't think perfection is an option, but in a few days things may improve. Making some of our voices heard has made an impression. Keep it up! As the problem is more widespread than just Liphook, would the relevant Parish Councils like to join forces to make their joint opinions known to HCC?

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Jaybee (26th May 2012 - 15:59:57) This is a repeat of what happened in Midhurst Road, two years ago. See Midhurst Road Resurfacing on Talkback

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Phil (27th May 2012 - 09:04:16) The resurfacing 'work' is a shambles. I hope someone loses their job / contract over this disgrace - something I would not wish on anyone lightly. I will be complaining. Impossible to cycle on these roads - so much for a Government 'green' policy - what's the environmental impact of this disaster, then?! A disgrace for residents.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Geoff (27th May 2012 - 09:06:37) No one seems to have to have mentioned the libda cycle ride, if this is not sorted out by then this will be downright dangerous for the cyclists on the loose grit.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Richard (27th May 2012 - 18:48:10) I will vote with my wheels and will not risk the Libda course while the roads are in their current state. Cycling can be dangerous enough in a group that wil be going quickly at this point, so why undertake an activity on a surface that is not fit for purpose. I appreciate that this is not Lidba's fault, but at least this way I have a better chance of staying intact so I can ride next year.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Susie (27th May 2012 - 21:24:18) I agree about the danger to cyclists. I was driving to Petersfield tonight and there were a lot of cyclists out. Some of the driving near the cyclists I saw was outragous. Overtaking at high speed on corners (which are covered in grit and a skid risk anyway) and speeding past bikes showering them with stones and rarely do I see cars giving cyclists the same room you would give a small car, as I was taught for my driving test. Several times lately I have had oncoming cars overtake bikes and narrowly miss a headon collision with me along the passfield road but thats another Talkback entry entirely! .

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Andy Stevenson (27th May 2012 - 23:51:34) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnbfBpckefc A friend has sent this to the BBC Southtoday and also ITV TV hopefully we will have the full attention of the council soon !! Please comment on here Thanks Andy

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - liz (28th May 2012 - 09:02:26) Contractors continued "putting things right" over the weekend. Just more dust everywhere with an end result of piles of grit/dust at road edges and road centre and still tar with no grit where the car wheels travel. I though someone would have realised by now that this 'solution' is not working. We need new contractors who can do the job properly.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Phil McNamara (28th May 2012 - 09:18:39) It is dangerous to cycle on the 'resurfaced' (I use the term lightly) roads as they stand. As others have commented, the risks to several hundred LIDBA cyclists in just over a weeks time are significant. Gravel / grit and skinny tyres do not work well, and with so many riders expected it is likely that some will end up in the deeper ridges of grit. In order to run the event, I suspect the organisers have to involve Health & Safety - so I am really curious as to whether the shoddy resurfacing will have an impact. I hope the roads are fixed before the event.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Bernard Bayly LiDBA Chairman (28th May 2012 - 09:37:24) I have been assured today by Hants C.C. Roads dept that the effected roads will continue to be monitored and swept during the next 2 weeks. As an additional measure because of the Ride they will also be swept on Sat 9th June.Hopefully this will cure the prevelant problems of loose chippings and enable the Ride to be as safe as in previous years. Rest assured that LiDBA always takes the safety of the Ride extremely seriously and is continually updating the Risk assessment. Hence the introduction of the \"No Helmet No Ride\" policy this year

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Russ (28th May 2012 - 09:58:27) Sorry but have to disagree with councils response. The roads are now in an appaling state and no sweeping will fix that, there are pot holes, large areas where the new surface has already gone. It's slippery, uneven and incredibly dangerous. It needs a new proper tarmac surface put down immediately.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Phil McNamara (28th May 2012 - 10:06:14) Just complained electronically, but joy of joys - this is the electronic message I got from HCC when I entered London Road, Liphook: Report a Pothole The pothole you were going to report is already known to us. There is no need to report it again The current status of the pothole is: Problem details Problem type: Pothole Location: LONDON ROAD, LIPHOOK Status: Closed – Repairs completed The reported problem has been fixed. Note the use of the incorrect word - FIXED!!

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Julian (28th May 2012 - 10:10:21) I have written to Damian Hinds, MP for East Hampshire, to highlight concerns over the resurfacing of our roads

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Deputy Parish Clerk (28th May 2012 - 10:45:08) Road surfaces in Liphook Following concerns about the state of the resurfaced roads in Liphook the Parish Council have received the following information from the Highways Team at Hampshire County Council: The Operation Resilience Team are aware of the situation and are inspecting the area and are working to keep the road safe by dusting and sweeping everyday through this current hot spell. Once the material has settled and is safe we will determine what permanent measures are required to bring the site up to the expected standard.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Chucky (28th May 2012 - 11:29:26) My car is due into the garage today. Yes looks like stone/s in my front brakes. The situation on Portsmouth Road on Thursday was interesting to say the least. The nice gentleman from the Hampshire Council is sending a claim form, will keep you informed of the outcome.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - liz (28th May 2012 - 11:41:48) Interesting response from HCC who have obviously not visited Liphook. The contractors pass near us regularly and I have seen a lot of 'dusting' but no sweeping, resulting in large quantities of loose piles of gravel which in my view must be just as dangerous and damaging to cars as the melting tar. The situation needs to be addressed very urgently!!

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Andy Stevenson (28th May 2012 - 19:23:28) Good Evening All, A friend who has had enough of the poor roads has been on the phone today and has arranged for the BBC South Today team to visit Liphook Tomorrow Morning (Tuesday approx 08:15) to do a piece for tomorrow nights south today. It is time for the residence of Liphook to get something done... I am not trying to make trouble but we have tried and havent got much joy.... Items to be spoken about are: been resurfaced twice< Melting surface on to peoples shoes - mucking them up dust being inhaled Ice Like Surface no Lines of any type no Cats eyes Total muck up From a source there was an accident last night at the Railway bridge in portsmouth road.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Blue (28th May 2012 - 20:41:19) After reading how the council didn't seem to be doing much about this, I contacted South Today and they are very interested. A reporter is going to call me tomorrow so if anyone else would like to talk to him could you email me your details?

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - G Renouf (28th May 2012 - 21:43:17) Sweeping every day we have not seen a sweeper for at least a week and there is now as nearly as much grit on the pavement as the road . This strech has now been tar and Chipped 3 times since the start of the work . It would have been cheaper and less trouble to start from scratch Plane off old surface and relay PROPERLY and only once. Also the cars are covered in abrasive dust and the house is full of dust ( cant use a hose to clean the car due to the ban ) Went to use the bucket today and " theres a hole in my bucket" I feel a song coming on there. Or are we supposed to keep our windows shut in this weather. on a light note hope to see you all at the milland rural fair and maybee the brok fete ( Im the one making the wood shavings fly)

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - alex (29th May 2012 - 09:19:17) Watch bbc south today tonight!! I made a few phone calls and hopefully help us sort out this road business out once and for all. I have got fed up with them fogging us off

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Plum (29th May 2012 - 09:50:30) Try riding a motorbike down the London Road. I am unable to turn right into Station Road due to the ridges of stones I have to navigate. It's only a matter of time before someone has an accident. Will it be fixed for LiDBA?

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Editor (29th May 2012 - 10:27:46) Report To Bramshott And Liphook Parish Council From County Councillor Ferris Cowper - May 2012 1. Highways The most important update is about the state of Portsmouth Road and Haslemere Road, Liphook. I have been briefed by HCC Hampshire Highways, as follows; “Dear Councillor Cowper, As I am sure you are already aware we have had some issues with the recent surface dressing of roads in your area. The combination of poor wet weather soon after the dressing was first laid and the recent period of high temperatures has caused chipping loss and the binder material to soften on areas of London Road and Portsmouth Road Liphook. We are working with Amey, and their subcontractor RMS, to keep the road safe in the short term by way of dusting the tacky binder and regular sweeping. After this current hot spell has passed we will assess the condition of these roads and determine a permanent solution, this is likely to involve removal of the excess binder and possible redressing next season. I will keep you updated once we have confirmed our course of action. I would like to apologise for the inconvenience these issues may have caused you, and assure you we are doing all we can to resolve the situation.” The matter is a serious failure of the service and a potential safety hazard. In addition, it is also intensely frustrating for me because I responded to residents’ enquiries several weeks ago by questioning HCC officers over the quality of the original workmanship. I was assured this was a tried and tested method and although some minor corrective repairs were, in fact needed, (and were done), the workmanship was to standard. As a result, I have asked the Deputy Director to arrange a technical briefing for me on the various methods of road repair so that I can make a more informed contribution. At present, because this is such a technical matter, I am at the mercy of officer advice. ...... Full report will be available on Parish website

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Ferris Cowper (29th May 2012 - 11:07:31) I am meeting with the relevant engineers tomorrow, the 30th., to have the whole situation explained to me and also to probe alternative methods to the one used. I will be publishing my periodic web newsletter next week and it will include a full report. I have also provided an interim report to the Parish Council at last night's AGM.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - liz (29th May 2012 - 11:51:12) I'm afraid HCC's comments are whitewash (or hogwash, I'm not sure). The 'wet weather' did not remove the chippings from the 'binder' - the trafffic did- there was no initial adhesion at all. I have never seen such dusty, powdery, chippings - I don't know if that is a factor. If the excess chippings are removed and the road left as it is until 'next season' - we will have a very exciting skid pan through Liphook and no chance of the Libda bike ride going ahead. I wonder if AMEY are aware just how badly their contractors have performed. If they are, they should be ashamed of themselves. P.S. Did the TV people turn up?

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Dave (29th May 2012 - 13:25:37) Know its short notice but if you get the chance watch South Today (BBC) at 1.30 pm. Supposed to be a quick thing on the roads around here.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Chris Bullick (29th May 2012 - 13:56:43) Having driven, cycled and ridden my motorcycle through Liphook regularly for the last few weeks I am amazed that the reactions to this debacle aren’t even stronger than they are. Personally I feel this ought perhaps to be the catalyst for a movement to put an end to the ludicrous habit of periodically ‘dressing’ the roads like this. Having travelled pretty widely and lived elsewhere in Britain and the world, this curious approach is in my experience unique to a few local authorities in the South of England. I would love to see some research that showed that there is any benefit in doing this whatsoever. From an engineering point of view it isn’t even third world standard, it’s utterly laughable and should be banned. A few more points to endorse or add to those above: The dressing only disguises underlying problems in the road – which in this country are typically many. Even when it ‘works’ the road surface is uncomfortable and hard to ride a cycle on. The mess in Liphook is not a ‘potential safety hazard’ (as per HCC) it is a man-made death-trap for two–wheelers who have to navigate 3 inch mounds of stones at all angles. LiDBA is important, but should cyclists at that event be treated differently say to people cycling to work every day? The same shambolic treatment has been given to lots of roads in the area. This laughably includes the A31 dual carriageway between Alton & Farnham. Complete with the ‘Skid Risk 10 mph’ signs. Anyone want to take an hour to drive between Alton & Farnham? Anyone tried driving at 10 mph on a dual carriageway trunk road? The ‘Skid Risk 10mph’ signs are a completely shameful abdication of responsibility. Clearly they are simply a get-out clause for the contractors. Try cycling along the A31. Even most cyclists won’t only do 10 mph, but whatever speed you are doing, for sure you will be pinged by stones from the wheels of cars doing 80 mph. Please let me know if you are interested in doing something more generally about this ‘road dressing charade’. Let’s put an end to it. Email me at chris.bullick@virgin.net

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Editor (29th May 2012 - 15:05:40) It is worthwhile having a look at www.highwaysmaintenance.com/Surface Dressing originally referenced by Nigel Myall in the thread Midhurst Road resurfacing from 2010

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Andy Stevenson (29th May 2012 - 17:17:39) BBC SOUTH TODAY 18:30 FULL STORY ON!! PLEASE TUNE IN TONIGHT TUESDAY ANDY

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Tina (29th May 2012 - 18:08:28) Just to keep you all updated, another cloud of dust this evening when the road sweeper decided to go up and down the Portsmouth Road at rush hour and just after I had washed my car windows so that I could see to drive in the morning. This was the last straw and despite having emailed the chap in charge as per the orginal letter that was delivered back at the beginning of this mess, I phoned and spoke to Hampshire Highways who said he already had several complaints, so I said I was aware of that but I would like mine recorded as well. I also informed them that they might like to watch South Today tonight. He is sending me a compensation form in the post even though he would have been much happier if I had downloaded it. I bet it doesn't cover cleaning of my window, cars and carpets. I did say to him its lucky I am not asthmatic there must be some people suffering with this level of dust.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Andy Stevenson (29th May 2012 - 19:05:19) They should compensate us for having to spend large amounts of money on getting the cars cleaned, mines nearly new but is covered in Tar, which we all know is hard to remove. I have had to wash my car twice in a week, Now not going to be done till September.... It will be done the week after Carnival week at this rate!!!

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Nick (30th May 2012 - 06:49:06) I\'m glad this has all come up as I was beginning to think it was just me...road isnt safe found myself the other day losing a bit of control on the bends at 30mph. My cars paint work is ruined lots of small specks of tar stuck on, impossible to get off without scratching.... you may not notice if you have a dark coloured car . To be honest Nick, you should not be driving any where near 30 mph on the grit/dust covered roads at the moment. You will throwing up stones at other cars and creating excessive dust for residents and walkers. Stay below 20 please.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Chris Summers (30th May 2012 - 09:23:18) I am a firm supporter of the surface dressing for the reasons you will find stated on my website pages www.highwaysmaintenance.com. But it has to be done correctly, with in specification materials, sprayed and spread at the correct amounts. Clearly something has gone wrong here, and I am not able to say what was the real cause, but the contractor will know although he may never tell the client, which I am assuming is Hampshire County Council, and he certainly will not tell the press/public because of possible claims. It will most likely be put down to the good old culprit, the weather, which probably was a contributing factor. However the contractor should have been watching the weather closely prior to dressing, and have been taking all possible precautions. Including have ready stock of clean small "grit", not "dust", unless by dust they mean small clean "grit" to completely cover the exposed areas of bitumen due to lost chippings and pick up on vehicle wheels. It is all on my website if you are interested. But you will not change my mind on the overall benefits that surface dressing brings to the local highway networks, and hence drivers, of the UK. Something like 75% of all local roads, probably 95% in rural areas, will have a "sealed" skid resistant, surface dressed road surface. However once it is "established" drivers forget it was surface dressed with the process that they love to hate. Regards Chris Summers

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Chris (30th May 2012 - 09:58:50) 'Surface Dressing' = 'Window Dressing'. Has to be the road mending equivalent of spraying a rusty car. Should be banned. I believe Mr Summers makes a clear point that GOOD surface dressing prolongs the life of a road by sealing the surface from water ingress. This should reduce the amount of damaged caused in the winter by water freezing below the surface and breaking it up.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Editor (30th May 2012 - 12:45:31) A further comment from Mr Summers "All surface dressing should be finished by the end of August with perhaps some small 6mm. size chippings still being dressed in the first week of September if the weather is good." The comment on BBC South last night was that the remedial work might not be completed until September - I hope this will then not be another weather related excuse for problems. I have asked County Councillor Ferris Cowper to provide the 'programme' for all surface dressings work in the area. Alan

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Phil (30th May 2012 - 14:13:10) Just for the fun of it, I am going ot put in a claim for valeting my car due to the tar deposits and chips (which it genuinely has picked up from using London Road twice a day). If anyone else was interested in collectively doing so (safety in numbers, etc!) then let me know and we can look at that - either one template letter that we all use, or we all claim together. Even if it doesn't work, the fun of the chase could be entertaining .. ?

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - bernard bayly (30th May 2012 - 15:04:38) Surely if the cars parked outside the flats and houses next to Station Road were parked somewhere else until the situation improves it would enable the sweepers to remove the piles of grit in the gutters and prevent the cars being covered in tar and dust as described by previous posters

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - jo (30th May 2012 - 20:23:13) I am not convinced by the weather excuse. The roads in and around Chichester were done by the same method at about the same time, and they are settling down nicely, lines painted back on etc, and with none of the problems that we have had in Liphook.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Richard (30th May 2012 - 22:37:30) Riding down London Road in the rain earlier today, on a motorcycle, was very scary. It felt like I was on a skid pan in places

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Kaz (31st May 2012 - 22:57:42) Liphook roads are a mess! I also drive in and out of Alton each day. On the main road into Alton B3004 exactly the same problems. Just a completely waste of time, loose chippings everywhere and so much dusty that the cars turn grey driving through it, so many chips on my windscreen. Today the surface is also breaking up now, major problems for our HCC. Let's add in the state of grass verges, opposite my house on the Haslemere road, it's a disgrace. Poor liphook. Once loved seems to have become neglected. Cost cutting!!!!

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Editor (1st Jun 2012 - 14:07:56) There is a letter posted by Councillor David Simpson on his website on the 30th of May. David Simpson, Hampshire County Council, Roads – Surface Dressing It refers to problems with dust. However, the contractors should have been using dust free chippings for the dressing - is this the root cause of the problem ? Any dust around the aggregate prevents it from bonding to the bitumen that they spray - exactly like using flour when rolling out pastry to stop it sticking to the worktop ! If dusty chippings was the problem it would explain the entire issue in and around Liphook, with the exposed bitumen layer getting hot and then sticking to tyres and being ripped up. Alan

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Dee (1st Jun 2012 - 14:46:34) Hi Alan Thanks for the update. I have sent a message on the link, but am not holding my breath for a reply. Dee

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Ian (6th Jun 2012 - 10:35:59) HCC should take a leaf out of the 'Manual' that Sussex appear to b using! Once you've gone past the last skid risk road signage of this debacle at the Sussex border (up towrdas Forest Mere), take a look at the roads to and through Rogate. An absolutely fantastic job! No dust clouds, no loose chippings, no rivers of melting tar, no potholes, no shiny skidpans, and no remedial work required whatsoever! Exactly the kind of job that we had the right to expect in Liphook. Someone's head needs to roll at HCC, their procurement quality process must suck for them to have selected such cowboys as they sent here, Alton, Bordon etc.. To all that have submitted compensation claims, please please keep the thread up to date. Am off to the garage with stones in the brakes.......... (not from Rogate!!)

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Hilary (6th Jun 2012 - 11:52:12) I drive to Petersfield every day and spent yesterday morning removing the tar deposits from my car (it's white and my pride and joy) what a mess! This 'resurfacing' is an absolute disgrace, it's not fit for pupose, we should not have to wait until September to have it re-done and I most definately agree that heads should roll for this complete and utter farce of a job. (Yes, I did complain to HCC - am still waiting for the response)

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - karen (6th Jun 2012 - 12:42:43) If you read this thread you may like to read post entitled 'news from rural france'.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - D (6th Jun 2012 - 17:39:55) I've just been reminded that a couple of weeks before this work was carried out we had a knock at our door and a chap advised us that he was about to do a lot of road re-surfacing in the village and would have a lot of tarmac left over with which he would be prepared to cover our drive at a very good price. COINCIDENCE?

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - chris (6th Jun 2012 - 21:58:58) These are the claims made by the contractor responsible for the roads shambles; “Welcome to … • Cost effective asset management solutions • Safe Reliable Roads • Quick application reduces congestion • Environmentally responsible True value in the highway maintenance market is becoming increasingly difficult to achieve. Clients are under increasing pressure to deliver more for less, whilst demonstrating innovative, sustainable solutions which provide added value. There is a need for solutions which can deliver best value against increasingly challenging targets. … have developed solutions which not only surpasses these challenges, but can be applied and ready to use in greatly reduced timescales compared with contemporary alternatives” The reality is a rubbish job at our cost and inconvenience!! Do we really what them back in September doing it again?

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Editor (7th Jun 2012 - 11:32:24) Update from Cllr. Ferris Cowper Further to my post on the 29th May, I took the officer up on his offer last week and met with him and a representative of the subcontractor, RMS. Surface dressing is a term used to describe a method of road repair in which a thin layer of bitumen is laid, (the binding agent) into which a layer of small stones of 3 to 10 millimetres is rolled. Surface Dressing, (SD), is used when the underlying road is structurally sound but the surface has become worn. The process is, under normal circumstances, cheap and quick. It is carried out as a continuous process at walking speed which keeps any road closure or restriction to an absolute minimum. If carried out well, one SD treatment can prolong the life of a road by up to 10 years. Following a well executed SD, the road surface should offer good grip. The bitumen used in SD is an emulsion and so is affected by water until it sets. Also, it is ineffective if the road surface temperature exceeds 40 degrees centigrade. You can see where this is heading. If SD is laid and then it rains heavily, the emulsion is weakened and the stones do not bind. If it gets hot after the SD is laid, the bitumen melts, the binding bitumen softens and the stones sink in. London Road and Portsmouth Road were dressed just before the period of continuous, heavy rain. The emulsion was affected by the rain and the stones were pressed into the bitumen. Some residents complained to me because it was easy to see the shiny tyre tracks where only the bitumen was visible. To be fair, the engineers acknowledged some problems and promised to do some repairs when the rain eased off. When the rain finally eased off they repaired the SD by adding a second, thinner layer. Unfortunately the temperatures soared and the surface temperature of the road passed 40 degrees centigrade. As a result the stones from the second application were released and you saw them piling up in the gutters leaving an even shinier bitumen surface than we had previously! This created a safety hazard as many of you remarked and the emergency measure is to dust the surface. The dust is, in fact, very fine particles of the material used for the stones. This is then pressed into the surface, restoring some of the required grip level. After dusting, the road is swept and that is the current situation. Very soon, the County Council will carry out a more permanent repair to the faulty SD. This is called “retexturing”. The excess bitumen binder will be removed to the level of the original layer of stones and bitumen and will ensure the exposed SD has the correct composition of stones and bitumen. This final repair is subject to weather but is expected to be carried out as quickly as weather conditions permit. Local residents who live on the affected stretch of road will be notified when the treatment is due to start. So that is what happened, but I feel it raises several issues. I have put these issues to the engineering manager. 1. Was sufficient notice taken of the weather forecast? I was told that it was, but my recollection of the weather forecasts at the time was that they were quite accurate which leaves me a little unsure of the answer. It’s hard to analyse this kind of thing in retrospect, but I am very sure that great care will be taken with the weather forecast in future. 2. Is there an alternative to SD? Yes, there are three. a. One is called “Micro Asphalting”. In this process a “slurry” of bitumen, aggregates, cement dust and water is mixed and laid in a continuous process at walking speed by a purpose built truck. It is used for quieter roads and it offers grip levels unsuitable for high speeds. It costs twice as much as SD. b. Resurface the road. This involves “planing off” 40mm of road surface and re-laying it. It takes much longer and results in protracted road closures possibly 4-5 days in the case of these two roads. It is also much more expensive, around £15 per square metre extra. c. A third is an adaptation of SD but with a second layer of binder. In effect it is a thin resurfacing of the road. It suffers from the road closure problem of resurfacing and is twice the cost of SD. However it is also a new process and when more is known about it, its relevance may improve. 3. Given the British Climate, does it make sense to rely on a technique that doesn’t like rain and unpredictable hot weather! My question was actually a bit more constructive and I asked if there was any research going on in bitumen formulations that were more tolerant of water and had better heat resistant qualities. In fact there is such research going on but neither the County Council not our subcontractor was that close to it. I made the point that if we experienced any more problems like this I would be taking a strong personal interest in this research with a view to identifying alternative materials for the SD process.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - liz (7th Jun 2012 - 12:06:56) Many thanks to Cllr Cowper for passing on the information. So they're blaming the weather again. As has been mentioned before this is a widely used technique and usually works quite well. The fact that this has been so unsuccessful in Liphook, Liss and no doubt other areas seems to point to a more underlying problem such as the materials used or perhaps even application temperatures.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Steve Miller (7th Jun 2012 - 15:08:10) It would be interesting to know which system has been applied to the local West Sussex roads as this appears to have been very sucessful. Having read all of the above it is difficult to believe that workmanship has not played some part in the consistently poor results in Hampshire. There must also be questions over the competency of supervision, both by the contractor involved and by either Amey or HCC as the client. I would suggest that when further treatments are applied both of these parties should make a point of being present. The real suspicion here is that HCC are prepared to sacrifice real quality on the alter of cost savings! 40 years experience in the construction industry (including several years building trunk roads) has shown that such an approach is seldom cost effective in the long run.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Phil (8th Jun 2012 - 11:06:23) Ah ha! It was the wrong type of road ... !

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Editor (12th Jun 2012 - 14:06:23) Interesting to note that a similar problem occurred near Southampton on 28th May 2012. This particular road was last 'dressed' in 2009. Hard to remember that the sun was once shining on us, isn't it ! www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/.... Alan

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Eneida (12th Jun 2012 - 15:00:09) Just wondering if the advert at the bottom of this thread is supposed to be TIC ?? The ads are generated by Google - and can be different for everybody viewing the page.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Eneida (12th Jun 2012 - 17:41:17) Oh right...on my computer it's for a company advertising "Asphalt and Macadam layed for a smooth, durable surface" lol !!!

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - Editor (25th Jun 2012 - 13:31:31) From the report to the Parish Council from County Councillor Ferris Cowper, dated 25th June 2012. Dear Councillor Cowper, As promised, I would like to update you on the remedial action proposed for the two failed surface dressing sites in your area. The short term action taken by RMS has stabilised the new dressing so it is no longer tacky but this has left very smooth areas in the wheel tracks where the chippings have sunk into the binder material. In order to return a reasonable texture to the wheel tracks RMS propose to carrying out water retexturing. Very high pressure water jets are used to remove the excess binder material which is then vacuumed up immediately by the same vehicle. These works will take place during the week commencing 2 July, signs will be placed on site and letters delivered to affected residents to warn of the works, disruption will minimal as the vehicle moves at a slow walking place and traffic will be managed with stop / go signs. Once the retexturing process is completed we will inspect the sites again as there may be areas where retexturing is not sufficient to correct the all defects, such as where small sections of the dressing have been completely pulled out. Further works will be arranged if required and I will keep you informed our intentions.

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - liz (25th Jun 2012 - 14:50:24) ..And so it will continue. More delays and disruption for us until some one eventually realises that such a mess has been made that only complete, proper resurfacing will suffice. Betya! (But quite happy to be proved wrong.....)

Re: Resurfacing disgrace - X (4th Jul 2012 - 09:18:13) Just to let you all know that in Bordon where the roads melted also, they are scraping the top surface off and laying tarmac, yes TARMAC on top! This looks (at the moment) like it will be a nice road surface to drive on. So much for their excuses that doing a decent job causes disruption - they are doing it at night and no delays to rush hour traffic this morning. As for cost - who knows - but I should think their cowboy contractors should be made to do it free of charge. Keep the pressure up - we want this for Liphook's roads too, although something tells me we won't get it. EHDC - if you're reading - this is how we expect our roads to be maintained at all times. Doing things properly the first time, even if it costs more, will save you a lot of hassle and cost in the long run, not to mention how many brownie points driving on smooth road surfaces wins you.

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