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Moto x menace Weavers Down - Claire (7th Jan 2018 - 12:25:43) Having had to tolerate numerous moto x riders using the common at Weavers Down as a free circuit, it was a pleasure today to see a police presence up the top car park . Speaking to the police, they are encouraging people to report every time via 101, take pictures of the vehicles and keep reporting the misuse of the ground to the land owners The Old Thorns. The track is lying inside the boundary of the National Park and is tearing the common apart, the bikers must have numbered over a dozen or more today, and most are coming up from the Portsmouth area. Keep reporting people ; there are plenty of pay as you ride tracks locally.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - D (7th Jan 2018 - 17:10:28) I have only got back about an hour or so from riding (mountain bike!) over there with my son and I saw loads of riders still using the lower field so it would appear the police presence did nothing. We were coming from Liss direction back towards Liphook and I made a point of giving them a wide berth. Over Xmas and today I was surprised how many moto x tyre marks were in all the woods as well as the number of people down on the 'track'. It is only a matter of time before a child or dog gets hit over there, I used to ride mx back in the day and always went to proper venues, no one I knew ever road off piste as the penalties were harsh, or you at least lost your bike!

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Cathal (9th Jan 2018 - 08:15:10) Dear all, This was brought to my attention recently by one of the Neighbours. I too live on Weavers Down and was appalled to see this level of activity at the weekend on The Downs. I will do everything I can to stop this. Please do send me your pictures directly. I emailed a number of vehicle owners this weekend as the branding of their companies was on the vans that transported the bikes. I intend to stop this, new gates and posts will be installed, new measures for stopping the vehicles getting through. I have recently joined the team here at Old Thorns, and I am committed to helping wherever I can. Sincerely Cathal Lynch Managing Director Old Thorns clynch@oldthorns.com

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Claire (9th Jan 2018 - 17:00:57) Cathal, Thank you for your response, I am surprised that this was the 1st time you were aware of the activity with living on Weavers Down; however, it is heartening to hear of The Old Thorns comments. Hopefully between your company and a few angry residents this may stop.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Moto X Menace (10th Jan 2018 - 13:49:13) About time someone spoke out from the other side of the story I think! So what exactly is the issue with people having fun, learning to ride offroad motorcycles and putting in practice/training to improve skills in their chosen sport? I can personally say being able to ride on this land on any given week day has helped my severe depression and anxiety massively. How are you guys becoming so offended by our love and passion for motorcycles? Also in case you are not aware, there are two green lanes (legal byways) leading to this area and have done for many many years... longer than any of you have been living there in fact. So it is well within my rights to ride my fully road legal off road motorcycle on these lanes., as well as many other of my friends and team mates. So you may block off the grass area but you will not be able to stop the presents of motorcycles and 4x4's around the surrounding area, so bare that in mind. On another note I personally spoke to a employee of old thornes who said to me and I quote 'Old Thornes have NO issue with the use of this land as they have NEVER received a noise compliant in regards to this'. Can I please ask, has a single person been harmed, or a dog for that matter, have any of you suffered from abuse from riders? As to the damage to the environment, this is minuscule in comparison to the carbon foot print Old Thornes produces on a daily basis. Once a peiece of land has stopped being used for recreational motorcycle use, it takes merely months before the lands recovers, so who is actually being harmed by this... Or would you all prefer for houses to be built there like everywhere else in the surrounding areas. Us off road motorcyclists get a bad name, where in fact just like everyone in this world, there are good and bad people end of. I thought seeing all these young people out enjoying the environment would be a good thing but apparently not, you would all prefer them to sit in doors and stare at a TV? As one of you mentioned there are many pay and play tracks around... you are INCORRECT. Most of the people using this land ride the sport of Enduro with some to a national level and let me tell you or just google search, there is nowhere to ride within 2 to 3 hours from this area. Feel free to let me know what you think, i'm sure you will :) Kind regards, Moto Menace

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Ian (10th Jan 2018 - 14:29:01) Moto x menace - quite simply your hobby is a noise nuisance and is not suitable for this area. Your justification (where you acknowledge that damage is being done) is irrelevant and permission from a sundry employee at Old Thorns probably doesn't count for much. The relief of your anxiety and depression is no excuse for adding to the anxiety and depression of the many others affected by this anti social activity!

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Richard (10th Jan 2018 - 14:53:51) If the area they are riding on is a "Green Lane" (I can't remember the proper definition), then as long as the vehicle is road legal, then they can be used. If you suspect the vehicles being used are not legal for road use, or they are trespassing, call the police and they will deal with it, but saying something is illegal because you don't like it, is clearly incorrect. Overly noisy and inconsiderate usage by everyone whether that is people walking, cycling, riding, cars, motorcycles, etc. should be dealt with, but riding a motorcycle on a green lane is not an offence. If these motorcycles were MotoX bikes, they are unlikely to be road legal, but memory serves, Enduro bikes usually are!

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Moto X Menace (10th Jan 2018 - 15:08:11) Quite simply your view on my sport and hobby, well that is your opinion... I and many others believe otherwise and find the area most perfect for riding. How is the justification irrelevant please explain? It was in fact not a sundry employee, I just reframe from including names on here. Are you saying you can hear the riding from inside your homes? Please forgive me for i'm confused, I have walked many miles around the 'menace track' and while standing close to the nearest house I could hear nothing while people were riding. p.s Mental health is no laughing matter, so please do not use this out of term. As for anti social side of things please feel free to stop by and talk about things in person we don't bite, i'm also more than happy to give motorcycle riding lesson free of charge... as they say (don't knock it until you've tried it!) Kind regards

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Charlie (10th Jan 2018 - 16:31:52) I often walk my dog, at Weavers Down. The motorcyclists I have met, as well as slowing down when we are nearby, have all been polite and friendly. Perhaps that is because I am polite and friendly to them.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - B (10th Jan 2018 - 17:10:16) I’m keeping this short. Moto X Menace. You’re in the wrong. The countryside is NOT your personal playground to ride around on your motorbike. It is a noisey, it scars the countryside beyond repair (and don’t use the carbon footprint line. It doesn’t wash) furthermore bridle ways and footpaths are not your personal race track. If you want to pursue this as a hobby take your bike to an authorised and legal moto x track. Arguing with people on here is counterproductive as you’re in the wrong

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Jeremy (10th Jan 2018 - 17:43:59) I was walking my dog with my son on Weavers Down on Sunday about 10.00am, we went all the way down to the Army camp, near the sand pits, I could hear a screaming 2 stroke from there, when I got to the fields there were bikes going everywhere, it wasn't very safe, but everyone is entitled to some fun, maybe if they all stuck to the track, and respect the dog walkers it would not be such a big problem, but I have to say the noise was horrendous !. By the way I used to race so l have got a handle on it.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Dave (10th Jan 2018 - 18:33:26) It is responses from moto x menace that give everyone else a bad name. The byway does NOT extend up on to weavers down and into the field. It is the track that runs from the deers hut up to the top car park. Also loads of the bikes up there are not road legal, I know the difference mx and enduro and have ridden both, even still running a number plate may not be a bad idea eh? I can see little help to a decent enduro rider or mx rider wanting to put endless laps round a track with no features, challenges or elevation and that could be lapped in well under a minute. Just put your hands up and say it is wrong. If you love your sport that much then you would do it properly and also be willing to travel.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Really? (10th Jan 2018 - 18:46:38) 2-3 hours? I did google it and within a few seconds I found that you could have entered the practise enduro this Sunday: post code DT2 7SL under two hours away and 3 to 4 miles of track.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Jim (10th Jan 2018 - 19:06:04) Weavers Down is a Site of Special Scientific Interest and the meadows below are designated as an important bird breeding area. The latter is being trashed by the illegal activities of the likes of Moto X Menace. If the birds stop nesting there then it will lose its protected status and be liable for development and we will all lose out, but mainly the wildlife..

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - MJR (10th Jan 2018 - 19:07:19) I have suffered the noise and disturbance from motor bikes on the Weavers Down whilst walking. It should be noted that Weavers Down is part of the internationally important - Wealden Heaths Special Protection Area [SPA] It comprises areas of wet and dry heathland, valley bogs, broad-leaved and coniferous woodland, permanent grassland and open water. Some of these habitats are themselves of European significance and support nationally important assemblages of wetland plants, invertebrates and reptiles. The site has three heathland-breeding bird species in numbers of European importance. Indeed it is the only site where all UK species of snakes, lizards, newts, frogs and toads are found. Any disturbance to wildlife by fast moving motor bikes is contrary to the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 is the primary legislation which protects animals, plants and habitats in the UK. Penalties that can be imposed for criminal offences in respect of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 is an unlimited fine, up to six months imprisonment or both.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - R (10th Jan 2018 - 19:18:59) @ Moto x menace As a retired 2nd generation Motocross rider, I can say I fully understand and appreciate your concerns. The British are very much against sports like off road motorcycling, and have been for many years. This means that it is getting harder and harder for riders and motorcycle clubs to find places to enjoy the thrill of dirt riding. With that in mind, I would like to address your question about what the issue is with people having fun riding over Weavers Down. The motorcycle club that I used to belong to had a similar situation to the one at Weavers Down. We would hold two or three meetings on some land, one of which was the British Championship. It was a great venue. Unfortunately for the club, a lot of people used to just turn up and ride around the track any time they wished. It ended up in the venue being lost altogether, which was a big shame because the Championship round used to bring in a good income for the club. I’m not sure if the event still happens, but I believe that there are a few official Enduro events held at Weavers Down every year. If the unofficial riding continues, it is just going to tick off the locals, which means the land owner will be under pressure to close the area to all riders. This is especially so if people are riding at “any given week day”. Motorcycles sound offensive at the best of times, especially off road bikes. Riding during the week is a sure way to upset local people, who moved near the Downs for the peace and quiet. Not wise at all. It means that the locals will complain to the land owner, and they will stop all access. That will include your Green Lane riding. I have seen legal byways changed, resulting in miles of Green Lanes closed off to motorcycles and four by fours… just because of inconsiderate people taking advantage and ruining it for everyone. I commend you for riding off road legally, although I will warn you that if you are riding on the track away from the bridleway without permission, your insurance is no longer valid. If you were to hurt someone, you would be liable. That would include you hurting a fellow rider that you might be riding with. The problem is that even though you might be riding responsibly, the unofficial aspect of people riding over Weavers Down will inevitably lead to undesirable and inconsiderate riders joining in. It means that any kid who owns a field bike with the baffles ripped out of his bike can turn up and ride, making a noise nuisance of himself. The question is… where does it end? It needs to stop before it’s ruined for everybody. Your riding pleasure will be compromised if things continue as they are. I recommend that the people who wish to ride, get in contact with the local motorcycle club and sign up for some events. Competition will improve your riding skills way beyond just messing around the Downs, and riding in an official event will mean that you would benefit from being properly insured, no speed restrictions, nobody walking their dog, no children running in front of you, St Johns Ambulance in case of an accident, and it will all be legal. Local clubs work very hard to keep events open for use. Don’t let it be ruined for everybody.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Pete (10th Jan 2018 - 19:20:07) To the person trying to justify what has been going on at weavers down. Firstly when you confined yourselves to the one track it was not so much of an issue but give an inch and people will take a mile and now you are spreading out all over the down ripping it up everywhere. Secondly the detritus you leave is disgusting it may not be you personally but I have pictures of rubbish strewn everywhere around the area. I suspect there have been no accidents so far as most people are now avoiding walking through the field. I have been walking the area for a long time and I can assure you it is far worse than a few years ago when you had the odd motorcyclist (this Sunday there were a good dozen). It seems that most of the vehicles are coming up from the Portsmouth area so why not use one of the dedicated pay per ride sites available between the south coast and here. May I suggest west Meon which charges £10 (or only £5 for MCF licence holders). In short if it had been kept to small numbers people would not have minded so much but it is now getting out of control. The green lane only extends from the road to the top carpark and you are quite welcome to use this as you wish (as long as it is with consideration to others) but it does not extend to the entrance of the field which is in the Southdowns national park. As regards to not being able to hear it from the nearest house I'm afraid that is a load of rubbish, you can clearly hear it from Chapel common which is the other side of the railway track.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - James blunt (10th Jan 2018 - 19:31:00) I think this is a brilliant use for the land . Long may it continue .

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Unamed (10th Jan 2018 - 23:03:22) I walk my dog up weavers quite a lot and the field they ride in is actually private property so they are not actually breaking the law if they stay in that field because the owner of the field wants to build a golf course there but he got the planning declined so he now let’s people ride down there apparently until he gets his golf course so I havs heard this story from multiple people so we can’t actually do anything because they are not breaking any laws and if you have a chat with them they are actually really nice people.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Cathal (11th Jan 2018 - 10:33:53) Thanks Everyone for your support and comments. What the "Scramblers" are forgetting is THIS IS PRIVATE PROPERTY. I will do everything I can to stop this. My thanks also to the Police for their continued support. Regards

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Harry (11th Jan 2018 - 10:55:10) Not okay for them to ride their bikes but it's okay for dog walkers to not clean up there dogs mess? I'd rather have the noise of bikes then dog mess everywhere. Police can't do anything if they have a number plate :) can't really do anything if they don't either. Can't trace them ;)

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Richard (11th Jan 2018 - 11:11:50) Daft question...but if it is private property, has it been appropriately fenced so people are aware of the boundary? And assuming the land owner has NOT given permission to use it.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - lac (11th Jan 2018 - 12:59:34) This post seems to have stirred up a Hornets nest of comment but here is my view for what its worth. (1) The land is in the National Park, created for the enjoyment of all, which I'm afraid doesn't include mass motor bike scrambling. Noise, pollution, destruction of land is not acceptable unless specifically agreed with the landowner and by the planning authority. (2) The motorcyclists concerned have been pleasant and non aggressive and include a number of youngsters. I sympathise with their need for suitable land to use their bikes on but I'm afraid the odd local motorcyclists, which most locals have ignored, have been replaced by a much larger number which I have no doubt will grow as word spreads this activity was tolerated. (3) Most importantly, the land type around Weavers Down is some of the rarest in the whole of the South. Sandy Heathland is rare and precious and the species it gives a home to are all endangered. We care about elephants and rhinos but give thought to the equally endangered species local to us. It is NOT "wasteland". e.g. the endangered Cuckoo breeds on the scrambling fields. I hope the destruction here does not affect the 2018 breeding season.A previous post has highlighted the host bird feeding area completely churned up by motor bikes. (4) The land is indeed private land which the public have been granted access to. Abusing this access by destroying it seems to me an odd way of behaving.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Moto X menace (11th Jan 2018 - 15:05:19) This is great I'm glad it's being talked about, believe it or not I agree with points on both sides! I myself go about things the correct way... I'm fully insured for road and green lane use, taxed and m.o.t'd on a road legal Enduro bike with an acu licence. I've been riding and competing on motorcycles for 22 years. (So don't just assume and judge me) Myself and my friends are fully within out rights to ride on legal byways and pursue our hobby and passion for motorcycles. We do not drop litter and always slow for walkers and always more than happy to talk! That's the point like I said not all of us are bad! However I can't speak for everyone riding bikes over there! But it would be great if there were more freeriding spots like NZ, the US, Wales and many other European countries etc as it's unfair we do not get to enjoy our country as we wish in peace. Also maybe look into byways in the area while considering buying a house. Long story short, everyone should be civil to each other and respect other people's points and issues, with both sides making some changes! I do not and will not ride the open grass area but will still continue to use the byways, I understand noise cleary does cause offence to some, but believe it or not it's music to our ears!! Peace and love Your favourite Moto X menace

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down @ Harry - Pete (11th Jan 2018 - 15:32:49) Harry, have you been over there lately its not just the noise that is the problem the area that the motorcyclists use is strewn with rubbish which unlike dogs mess is not bio-degradable.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - R (11th Jan 2018 - 16:39:42) @ Moto x menace If you are riding legally, I don't see that this thread is applicable to your use of the Downs. You will know that the speed limit on a green lane is 15 mph. At that speed even the noise of a 4 stroke won't be too offensive to local residents. What people have issue with is the riders who disregard the law and are ripping everywhere up. I'm sure they are all very nice people, but their illegal activities can only encourage the more undesirable riders to use the common. If you've ridden for 22 years you will know the sort I am referring to. Who is going to stop the undesirable riders completely destroying the Downs? Where is the line? The problem will only get worse unless something is done to stop these inconsiderate riders.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Claire (11th Jan 2018 - 19:27:27) Moto x Menace Whilst we are entering the concillatory phase; I would like to thank you for your comments, good to hear from the other side - my original post was intended to highlight the growing numbers using the tracks inside the field not those that use the byways. I commend anyone with a hobby that takes them outside the house and the common should be free for anyone to use responsibly; unfortunately as previous posts have commented the numbers using the field have spiralled out of control, today there were four up there. I myself have been involved in Mx for many years and I love the sport but I must say I appreciate a good race on a decent track within the safety of an organised event. I do not intend to tar everyone with the same brush and I fully understand not everyone is dropping litter but a lot are. Yes most of you are probably decent blokes or women ! that is not in question, but I wanted to highlight that this is not an agreed Mx site, whilst walking my dog ,running or riding my bike I would have to abide by property law and respect the wishes of the landowner, my hobbies also include camping and I can't just pitch up anywhere I like.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Jamie (11th Jan 2018 - 21:21:24) I have never had a problem with the Moto X riders and the main area they use is well out the way from the main tracks. It's far enough from old thorns that you would not here them and this a great sport which over the years has helped the likes of 3 times world superbike rider Jonathan Rea and Moto GP riders like Bradley Smith. It would be nice if people made some effort to approach and speak to these people rather than come on this website and run them down. It's not that often I see them and I cycle this route everyday and live very close to old thorns. So no problem from this local resident.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - pete (12th Jan 2018 - 07:39:46) Jamie. If you ride there everyday you will have noticed that the numbers involved have been getting greater. This Sunday there were 12 riders on the field all at the same time and four on this Thursday afternoon so it is not just small and occasional. As previous correspondents have said when it was small numbers using it occasionally nobody minded but it is getting way out of control. Regarding the noise, again the greater the numbers the greater the noise. I would dispute that you cant hear it from the local houses as I have and regardless of this noise is not the only or main issue.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - lac (12th Jan 2018 - 10:35:43) I'm a little wooly on the law but my understanding is that motorised vehicles, including motor bikes, are allowed on BOATS (Byways Open to All Traffic). They are NOT allowed on footpaths or bridal ways. The only BOAT on Weavers Down goes up by the side of the golf course and ends at the junction with Queens Rd at the top. It is therefore illegal to ride motor bikes anywhere else and I'm pretty sure any insurance would be invalid used in such a way. Using land without permission from the landowner is trespass and if damaged, this is criminal damage. Finally any landowner allowing the usage of land for non agricultural purposes would have to have planning permission and failure to obtain this would leave the landowner liable to legal action by the relevant planning authority. This legal framework protects all our interests, not just the few who choose to abuse it. And above all the legal stuff, I remind all the local residents that this land is rare and precious, providing homes to our rarest UK species. Although secretive and well hidden, they are a precious part of our local ecosystem. Imagine the clamour if a motor racing circuit was built on a tiger reserve. We have the UK equivalent of a tiger reserve on our doorstep and for some reason many seem not to appreciate it. There is a lot of non precious land within a 20 mile radius. Its surely not too much to ask for the motor cyclists to spend a small part of their very expensive hobby on using land designated for the purpose.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Jen (12th Jan 2018 - 13:26:38) This an absolute tragedy! The wanton destruction of this beautiful, fragile habitat of international importance is utterly despicable and I hope the perpetrators are caught and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - MJR (12th Jan 2018 - 17:26:46) Repeat of previous post I have suffered the noise and disturbance from motor bikes on the Weavers Down whilst walking. It should be noted that Weavers Down is part of the internationally important - Wealden Heaths Special Protection Area [SPA] It comprises areas of wet and dry heathland, valley bogs, broad-leaved and coniferous woodland, permanent grassland and open water. Some of these habitats are themselves of European significance and support nationally important assemblages of wetland plants, invertebrates and reptiles. The site has three heathland-breeding bird species in numbers of European importance. Indeed it is the only site where all UK species of snakes, lizards, newts, frogs and toads are found. Any disturbance to wildlife by fast moving motor bikes is contrary to the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 is the primary legislation which protects animals, plants and habitats in the UK. Penalties that can be imposed for criminal offences in respect of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 is an unlimited fine, up to six months imprisonment or both.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Unknow (12th Jan 2018 - 20:32:17) People have spoken to the owner of the land and he said it doesn’t matter if they ride there but if it is trespassing that means all the dog walkers there are trespassing and breaking the law to so I’ll will be keeping an eye out looking for dog walkers there and will be contacting the police if I see any dog walkers on that land because most of the riders there are young and just enjoying them selfs instead of going Out hanging out on the street and doing dtugs they have taken up a hobbie and you have just went and made a massive talk back about it because you don’t like it because you are probably old people that want them to stay inside and do work instead of having fun the land owner hasn’t complained and I’m sure if he asked them no to ride there they would stop

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Anne (12th Jan 2018 - 21:07:24) Unknow, did you do English at school?

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Debbie (12th Jan 2018 - 21:45:56) Unknown, The land belongs to Old Thorns and their new Managing Director Cathel (Martin Shaw has left)has said in a post further up that he wants it stopped and will be putting up fences and a gate so I think that you can take it as written that permission had been withdrawn.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - helen (12th Jan 2018 - 22:58:18) Hi "unknown" I doubt very much that you did indeed have unlimited permission from the top man at Old Thorns, if so why had he come on this site to say how horrified he is by the damage you and your friends are doing. The SDNPA would not be too pleased either! I do not think however that the whole of the area is owned by old Thorns surely some is MOD land?

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Ian (13th Jan 2018 - 09:19:47) Unknow or whatever your name is, your post made me chuckle! Are you still at nursery? Or have you just taken the drugs you mentioned? Hilarious! But seriously man, if you are going to use media that involves writing please get some spelling and grammar lessons! Whatever message you’re trying to get across is lost by your appalling grasp of the English language

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - k (13th Jan 2018 - 10:07:16) I believe part of the Weavers down site - the bog is owned by Hampshire Wildlife Trust - of which I am a member - I will contact them as this part is actually a Nature Reserve - just in case this is being affected by the activities - Hopefully not - I must confess I have never have been able to find my way on - may be some of the locals could help me with directions -as I would like to visit Thanks - it also highlights the IMPORTANCE OF THIS SITE IF PART OF IT or adjacent to a NATURE RESERVE - hopefully this is not the part being torn apart - but it will have an impact in the general area - I am NOT against people having fun but surely responsible use & awareness of the impact of what you may damage is important. Thanks for reading !

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - K (13th Jan 2018 - 10:57:00) Silly me - just double checked The Hampshire & Isle of Wight Trust Nature Reserve - is PERMIT ONLY ACCESS- so won't be able to visit easily so no need to provide me with info - BUT HIGHLIGHTS EVEN MORE THE SIGNIFICANCE & IMPORTANCE OF THE SURROUNDING SITE

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Common basher (13th Jan 2018 - 17:15:32) I really can’t see the problem !!! I was reported even tho I have raced Mx for over 20 years and I was riding a bike with know more power then a egg whisk! I’ve always slowed and stopped when necessary for dogs and there owners and for any one else using the common. So why don’t you stop moaning and worry about things that really matter instead of trying to take what little fun people have in there lives away

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Ronniemac (13th Jan 2018 - 19:40:28) I understand both sides of the argument as a rider my self using the track. They are loud, tear up the ground and occasionally attract the wrong sort of people. However most of us are just young lads from most probably similair backgrounds but different generation as the people who disagree with the bikes. Speaking for me and my mates we are using the area respectfully and as a source of fun, fitness and training. Whenever we see people or horses we always cut out the bikes and some times chat with them just to show we are willing and just want to make the best of a good thing, making it work for everyone, and most people are normally very positive about it too. As long as people dont take the piss then why make it stop? If ever i see litter which actually is not often I take it back to the van. I always make sure other people use the tracks respectfully and try not to go up on weekends when people are most likely to be out wanting peace and quiet. If anyone who rides reads this please just respect the area and dont take the piss. Maybe then we can ride in harmony with the people who disagree. Theres always conflicting views in every aspect of the world, but nothing ever stops so lets just all get on and respect each others views. Cheers all try and enjoy yourselves

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Jen (13th Jan 2018 - 20:39:48) Common Basher. What?!! You can't see the problem?! Are you serious?! The problem is that these bikes are causing terrible damage to a very sensitive conservation area. If something isn't done soon to put a stop to them, then the habitat will be destroyed, taking with it the birds and other wildlife that make their homes there. In addition, these motorbikes are horribly noisy and cause massive amounts of noise pollution, spoiling the peace and quiet of the countryside for wildlife and all other users. Furthermore, the bikes are not only ripping up the footpaths and the bridleways, making them difficult to navigate around the ruts and the mud, but they are also creating a potentially dangerous environment for walkers and horseriders. But hey! That's all ok because Common Basher fancies a ride around the countryside on his/her motorbike and perish the thought that anything should get in the way of that! Do you really not care at all about the environment or about other people? Is everything just all about you and what you want? From your post, you appear to be saying that your enjoyment of your hobby is more important than everything (and everyone) else! That is breathtakingly selfish of you! Can you really not see that?

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Unknown (13th Jan 2018 - 23:12:49) Jen and all other concerned !!! Are you so worried about the environment ?? I think we all are in fairness.... Global warming, pollution etc etc. Your claims of damage and danger to other users is nonsense. Yes the ground does become "ripped up" but as well all know this will repair itself when not ridden. I can quite happily say all the riders i ride with are always courteous of other land users. You yourself must use the nearby A3 quite regularly, I'm sure in its day that must of caused some 'disruption' to nature and nearby residents. I'm sure these people that seemed offended by this 'criminal activity' would of eventually rallied together and dealt with it. The trouble is with people being offended by this is, being offended by this or anything doesn't immediately effect you. Im personally offended when my kid steps in dog mess from lack of care from dog walkers, but as life goes on i manage to accept it. As we all know there really is a bad image surrounding off road motorcycles in Britain so what ever happens its never gonna be seen as a great sport. Ive been riding for years and have ridden at all tracks most which have been closed down for similar reasons to this... Sad times ahead all because of select few individuals that cant let a few lads have a few hours of fun.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - R (14th Jan 2018 - 13:08:49) The riders that are commenting on this thread are not doing their cause any good at all. The only thing that you have exposed so far is how short sighted and overly simplistic your arguments are.   Here are a few fallacious arguments that keep popping up.   * "What is wrong with a few people having fun, riding their bikes for recreation?"   There is nothing wrong with it, if it is done legally. What is happening over the Downs is illegal. If you hurt someone you will be held liable.   * "When we see people or horses we always cut out the bike and sometimes chat with them just to show we are willing and just want to make the best of a good thing, making it work for everyone."   What happens when you don't see a horse, or a child, or a dog, or a walker and you hurt them? The very fact that a potentially lethal weapon (like your 200 lbs motorcycle) is anywhere near a public space should be enough reason to see what the problem is. It is good that you show courtesy when you meet people and that is to be commended, but there will come a day when you don't see them and you hurt someone. You are riding illegally, and therefore not insured. You will go to prison because it would be considered reckless riding.   * "We don't leave litter."   Again, very commendable that you don't. What about the riders that are? The Downs are not an official riding facility. The fact that you are riding over there illegally will just encourage anyone to turn up, including people a lot less courteous than you. It is inevitable. I have seen it hundreds of times. If people were to turn a blind eye to your illegal riding, the long term prospects means more riders turning up, which means more litter.   * "Why can't people just respect each other?"   Because as a rider, you are already ‘disrespecting people' by disregarding the law, riding illegally on the Downs. People walking over the Downs are not. A respectful rider would seek out an official riding event, which would be legal and risk free.   * "Riding motorcycles is better than people who leave dogs mess."   This maybe true. The same people who are against your unsociable riding are equally against unsociable dog owners who don't clean up after their dogs. The fact that irresponsible dog owners leave dogs mess doesn't justify motorcycle enthusiasts' improper use of the Downs.   * "As long as people don't take the piss then why make it stop?"   Because you are already ‘taking the piss' by riding over there illegally. And if people do start to ‘take the piss' who is going to stop them?   * "Riding is a good source of fitness and helps improve our riding skills."   The only way you would get fit would be to ride at speed. If you are riding that fast then you are riding dangerously in a public place. If you want to get fit and hone your skills, do competition… or at least go to an official practice track like West Meon. There is not a great deal to learn from riding around a field… apart form how to upset the local residents.   ---   The interesting thing about this thread is the fact that many people who are against the motorcycle riders over the Downs are off road enthusiasts themselves. They are not against riders having fun. They just see the situation without a biased opinion and know that what is happening over the Downs is unacceptable.   Conversely, the comments from the riders reveal a very limited perspective, which just goes to prove why their use of the Downs needs to be stopped.   The question for the riders is: why can't you use a local track to pursue your hobby? If you can get your bike to the Downs, what is stopping you taking your bike to a proper facility?   As a rider myself, I don't see how you can justify your position at all. You are only confirming the popular opinion… that off road motorcycle riders are inconsiderate and a nuisance, who act disrespectfully. The fact that you are riding on the Downs illegally, without permission, and the fact that you are aware that you are upsetting the locals doesn't help you position in the least and works contrary to the sport you profess to love.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Edit (14th Jan 2018 - 16:34:57) Editor, I really do think this is quite enough of the local folks venting their spleen on this topic. Its now mostly not constructive comments,but rather quite aggressive. Its now inappropriate after 43 messages being submitted,and posted. If action should / must be taken,it does not need to consist of the hurling of insults vs opinions,in a continually repetitive format.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - James blunt (14th Jan 2018 - 16:48:17) First world problems !!!! Who cares anyway were all going to get nuked soon . So let's just all enjoy are last days together :) .

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Ian (14th Jan 2018 - 18:07:05) Edit - the thing with freedom of speech is that it can't just be switched off cos someone no longer likes what is being said. If you are fed up of this thread, stop looking at it, simple really

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Why horse around (16th Jan 2018 - 13:03:30) Horses.... chewing up the land, riding at high speed, a very heavy object if to ride into to someone and also very unpredictable. Surely the same sort of problems arising here yet there seems to be no problem ?? Funny just a very British view on things as usual. The same sort of problems arise with cycling off road to, its deemed not to be the right way to have fun. I think the European and even Welsh view should be more widely spread.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Does it matter who I am (16th Jan 2018 - 23:43:06) What about all the people that let there dogs take dumps everywhere and don’t clear it up and I would rather they ride there not hurting anyone or anything because there has been a track there for such along time and I’ve seen teenagers up there there was like 10 of them and only three bikes they had all the kit to go with it and they were taken it in turns and looking like they were having the time of there life’s and I always am seeing teenagers getting told of for hanging about round the village doing nothing wrong and then I always here how they are so lazy on the Xbox’s and phones and they should do more stuff out side and when they try to they just seemed to get the police called on them. At least they are not smoking or doing drugs I would rather them have fun than smoke or do drugs because these children are our future and they will be looking after us when we are older and we need there help and there fun would of stopped so let them live there life and have a bit of fun.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - helen (17th Jan 2018 - 08:50:18) What a depressing view of the youth of today? If you do not let them do something illegal they will automatically turn to drug taking. It should not be beyond anyone young or old to find legal leisure pursuits. Also just because they enjoy illegal places upon which to ride, does not mean they never take drugs either. The amount of elderly people looked after today, totally financially and physically, by state funded care homes shows that it is not a vision of our future but the present.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - another totally depressed dog walker (17th Jan 2018 - 12:04:16) I'm fine with them riding bikes and having fun, just not in Liphook! There must be other fields a long way away from here and surely they'd be more suitable? Nothing wrong with being a nimby, as a dog walker, I'm just protecting my peace and quiet which can be massively disrupted by motocross bikes and of course I care massively about that Scientific Scene of Special whatever it was thing an earlier poster quite rightly mentioned. I know only 4% of Britain is built on, but we need much of the rest for other things like housing, ideally for families, the army need to drive their tanks and stuff, we need a new bypass, we can't have all this and let loads of kids ride their motocross bikes. Tyres can disrupt ground which may take a whole season to grow grass on again and the churned ground attracts seeds which causes things to become overgrown with nature. This is why we must keep on banning bicycles and moto bikes from 99.9% of our countryside to protect the land so that we can all enjoy it reasonably by doing positive things like dog walking. Of course our dogs need it for running on and defecating. Otherwise all those poor dogs will be very restricted where they can go, Radford Park, the football pitches, Bramshott Common, Iron Hill, the rest of Weavers Down, the village, your road, your front garden because they're not going in my garden I can assure you... I'm sorry let's protect our countryside for dog walkers, no bikes and none of those odd people who go walking without dogs (why would they do that anyway?, scary, I always glare at them suspiciously), OK with joggers, but only if they stick to paths and wear fluorescent lycra like I do, and whilst I'm on it, can we have more parking for our 4x4s, it's getting to be a tussle what with all the other mums, surely they could expand the car parks up by Weavers Down, I mean yeah we could park off road you know, may be an extra field or two for our off roaders is not asking too much, is it, I mean there's loads of countryside doing nothing, OK???

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - liz (17th Jan 2018 - 16:13:45) Edit (not Editor!) I bet burning books is your thing too. None of this free speech nonsense! Seriously though, a genuine Moto x enthusiast (R?) put forward a very strong case earlier in this thread, pointing out that the 'Weavers Down' menaces are not doing anyone any favours, including Moto x. It is very frustrating when a minority give your sport a bad name.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Runner (23rd Jan 2018 - 01:06:29) The motor bikes have been getting away with using this land because there has been implied access and the land owner has, up to now not tried to stop them - closing the gap on the north-east side. This does not make this land use right. To turn this from an area used as a common land for hundred of years into a motor X area needs planning permission that would never be successful. Let alone the overspill of using the protected SSSI land. We have all seen the tyre marks outside of the field. As others have said there are strict fines on damaging areas that are SSSIs. South Downs NA should be putting an enforcement notice to the land owner. Good to see Cathal, from Old Thorns is involved and interested in this situation. Shame this will be stopping peoples hobby but it is total illegal and causing so much nuisance and damage to this landscape that will continue unless its stopped. Cathal, please be true to your word and take action to prevent access. I'm hoping the bike riders can find an alternative. The ones I've come across I always been polite but unfortunately their hobby is quite anti-social, especially in this sensitive area. Surely the responsible ones can see this.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - lac (23rd Jan 2018 - 09:48:10) True to their word, Old Thorns new management, have installed fencing. Hopefully the people who have abused the area with motor bikes will get the message. If not, all non motor biking users, the vast majority of land users, should take cell phone pictures and inform the police. They have already turned up once to my knowledge, to throw bikers off the land. There is lots of low grade unused land in a 30 mile radius for them to use. Alternatively, why not invest in a decent pair of walking shoes or a bike and enjoy the beauty of this lovely piece of country. Keep your ears open for the Cuckoo in April/May. I sincerely hope the antics of the bikers haven't destroyed too much of the field on which the host birds feed and nest. This highly endangered species uses this area for summer nesting. There are few places in this whole area where you will hear one although I'll bet the bikers would still prefer the demented screams of their petrol engines. A good legacy to hand to their children.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Runner (3rd Feb 2018 - 19:53:45) Many thanks Cathal, New fencing and gates installed and no motorbikes for around three weeks now.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Lac (22nd Mar 2018 - 00:07:40) They’re back. This time bolt cutting padlocks and ignoring no motor vehicles signs. Last weekend and Wednesday (today). Not only trespassing on private land but also causing criminal damage. If anyone sees these anti social idiots please call 101 and report them. The police will attend.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Richard (22nd Mar 2018 - 10:16:21) By the time the Police attend they culprits will be long gone!

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - lac (22nd Mar 2018 - 12:24:07) They have attended several times before and Old Thorns also supervise, so please complain to 101 and/or Old thorns. If the police are busy with something more urgent, they might not attend. There are clear signs saying no motor vehicles and locked gates and fencing. Cutting padlocks off gates is criminal damage, as is the damage they are doing to the fields.It is also illegal to ride motorbikes along bridle ways, which is how they are gain long access.These are not a few local lads, they turn up in vans from from much further further away and seem to think this behaviour is OK in the National Park. Old Thorns have done a great job in fencing the area whilst giving access to pedestrians and cyclists, so let's make sure we report those who think laws don't apply to them.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Turdferguson (25th Mar 2018 - 15:48:06) They were back today. Police and Old Thorns notified. They were clearly riding on both the lower field and the MOD land. This activity is illegal and should be stopped.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - John wilson (25th Mar 2018 - 19:44:25) Old thornes have repaired the fence allround bikers now cut gate locks off or come in acess gate for horses .police called but no resorses available. Will try to come next weekend . Easter no hope. Dont blame police on the ground, man incharge at fault. Last time i heard about him he wanted to get rid of more police officers, & have a deputy+ more office staff. get rid of him & his staff , empoly more police .i must admit i voted for him as he said he wanted to put more police on the ground. ever been had.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Robert (25th Mar 2018 - 23:55:29) Shame the army can't just shoot them....

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Richard (26th Mar 2018 - 09:56:25) Isn't this the same police force that wants a large increase in their precept, but won't actually attend a crime scene? (Which this is by virtue of Criminal Damage!) Just thought I would seek clarification! (I know that driving around in a flash car is no much more interesting than actually investigating something, but perhaps we ought to be getting some level of service.)

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - lac (26th Mar 2018 - 10:08:06) These people will get the message eventually. Take pictures/video of vans and number plates and they can be followed up by the police. They are now destroying the whole field which to the obviously ignorant bikers is just a patch of field. Unfortunately it's used by walkers, horses and people just enjoying the peace and quiet of the countryside. In addition the frogs and newts living in the area around the pond are being flattened and the very rare cuckoos who visit and breed in the fields will also be driven off. I'm baffled why these people think its OK to trespass and cause criminal damage. There are places they can go outside the national park where they are not causing a nuisance but clearly they think they can keep sticking two fingers up at everyone else. They are wrong.

Assault by Moto x Rider Sun 25 Mar 18 - D (26th Mar 2018 - 12:52:46) I was ridden at and struck by a Moto-X Rider and his bike whilst walking down the path at the NE corner of the meadows, having entered the area via the pedestrian gate from the Longmoor Enclosure, on Sunday. My wife and I were walking our dog, they were forced off the single file path into the brambles. Having struck me, the rider lost balance and on grounded his bike, he then assaulted me pushing me into thorns and a barbed wire fence, whilst shouting abuse and threatening to see me at my car, which he assumed I had parked at the top of Queens Road. This assault was immediately reported to the Police. The man concerned was violent and very aggressive; an unwelcome and unacceptable development. Please report Moto-X activity to Hampshire police by dialing 101 immediately. NB, in that area you are likely to connect to Sussex police using your mobile, so please ask for Hampshire Police.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Matt Black (29th Mar 2018 - 01:37:56) To the bikers who don't see the problem in charging around on someone else's land and causing damage and making a mess generally, I wonder how you would react if you were the landowner and assorted bikers (licensed and unlicensed) came in uninvited and did the same to your land?

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Claire (29th Mar 2018 - 22:35:33) Yes they are back ...while walking my dog on Sunday we were driven at , the idiot forced his way through the gate with no regard to my safety my husband or my dog ..both riders rode onto the shipwrights way to get to the field. Today there were three riders tearing up the field , I phoned both The Old Thorns and 101 , police attended straight away , reg numbers were taken ...keep reporting hopefully they will get the message or at least learn to read !

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Matt Black (30th Mar 2018 - 17:32:06) Hello Cathal- Great to see the boundary fences for Weavers Down being re-established, especially after long lengths of them were mysteriously flattened a couple of years back. I see that the new fencing is of a stock-proof type. Does that mean that grazing of the area by cattle will be re-introduced?

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Unknown (31st Mar 2018 - 11:03:43) If u keep calling the police on them and all that they are just going to start running us over and scaring us so why can’t they both use the feild people have been riding there for years.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - pete (2nd Apr 2018 - 13:40:10) Unknown. Are you for real. Sounds suspiciously like a veiled threat to me.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - helen (2nd Apr 2018 - 15:31:13) It is no surprise that people dislike these illegal bikes and bikers that ride them regardless of the law of the land. Many years ago I had a request to let them use my private land, when I explained I did not want my land trashed or the wildlife scared away or the noise of the machines the person insisted they made no noise. Really? When there is such lack of understanding of the damage done hardly any surprise there are veiled threats to reasonable people!

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Nelly (4th Apr 2018 - 12:35:01) Hopefully the current fencing and gates won't be torn down by moto x riders like they were in 2013/2014 in order to gain access. Up until then my neighbour kept cattle legally on the down, with commoners' rights. One of the reasons she gave up is because of the above. The only horses ridden on Weaver's Down are by permission of the land owner and I know of just one stables that has that permission from them. Walkers and dog walkers are allowed on the site under open access laws. Horseriders and walkers are also affected when the bikes and vans make use of the bridlepaths around the commons, which are not green lanes. The majority of motorbike riders I've met over there are polite but if they feel they are there legally then why do the vans many arrive in containing bikes, have illegal number plates registered to other vehicles and use those vans to push fences/gates over? Also, the landowner on here has clearly stated they are not giving permission for motorbikes on that land so whatever so and so said to so and so in the Links that was believed to be permission obviously no longer applies. Why not search for local land and get permission, preferably on a site that isn't of special scientific interest, then everyone would be happy.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - lac (4th Apr 2018 - 12:51:46) Can I respond to the earlier post that riding on the fields has been "going for years" Technically this is true as Old Thorns let the fencing decay after failure to obtain the 2nd golf course permission. However, at NO POINT has permission been given to ride motorcycles and "years" is actually 2 years. The new management of Old Thorns have made it quite clear they do NOT want motor cyclists on their fields. As a regular pedestrian user of the area I can assure the readers, the field is being destroyed by deep tracks everywhere. Old Thorns are actively removing bikers and police are always now called. Sooner or later there will be prosecutions and then the penny might drop. As I have said earlier, this is not a few local lads causing minimum nuisance, its several vans from 20+ miles away disgorging up to 8 motorbikes at a time and riding around at high speed illegally. Huge damage is being caused to a field which used to be an SSI. I ask again that anyone who sees motor bikes on these fields to call Old Thorns immediately or ring 101 and take pictures of vans parked illegally.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Harry (29th May 2018 - 07:04:52) Just to let everyone know. A round of the British enduro championship is going to be held on this ground in September. Over 150 riders all racing in a very important championship. You lot of old boring people should come and watch :).

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - liz (29th May 2018 - 08:31:40) Never mind the old people, has anyone told Old Thorns and the Old Bill?

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - helen (29th May 2018 - 11:38:31) I am sure the Hampshire police read this site, certainly the local newspaper reporters do, half their stories eminate from here!

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - ian (29th May 2018 - 13:43:19) Don't worry, Harry is just being a bell end. Event is at the Longmoor Camp, as it has been for many years now, quite official and nothing to do with the Weavers Down land

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - Paula (29th May 2018 - 15:20:02) Ha Ha Harry,..i love the old boring bit,.."whistling here"...to funny!.

Re: Moto x menace Weavers Down - lac (30th May 2018 - 12:51:24) usual rubbish from bikers disparaging anyone who think a National Park is supposed to be for quiet recreation and wild life by the majority, not the few.The Army event has been going on for many years. It's planned, has martials, is legal and insured. I suggest those wishing to ride motorbikes illegally on someone else's land including footpaths and bridleways, join the armed forces so they too can legally enjoy their hobby. Or if that's too onerous, continue to go somewhere else where its legal and allowed.

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