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An Avoidable death - Mr J Trodden (17th May 2017 - 09:01:51) In the early hours of Monday morning my friend Willie Wynne received a call from his beautiful 43 year old daughter, Ingrid in Liphook. She thought she was having a heart attack. Willie drove at speed to her home and could see the distress she was in. He thought at that time in the morning he could get her to hospital quicker by car. He helped her to the car and then changed his mind hoping an ambulance with the correct equipment on board may be nearby. He called an ambulance at 0015. He called another two times in that time frame. Ingrid collapsed and slipped down and out of the open car door. Willie comforted her in his in is arms at the side of the road and again call the ambulance service at 0027, again twice at 0058 and again at 0106. On one occasion he was told by operator “to call back if it got any worse”. Ingrid died in his arms and the ambulance still hadn’t arrived. It is, without doubt, the Conservative maladministration and funding of all our vital services which has brought us to this point. No doubt there will be an enquiry and “valuable lessons will be learned” but nothing will change under this regime a complete change of government is required to fix these things.

Re: An Avoidable death - Richard (17th May 2017 - 21:06:08) While the death is tragic, I do seem to recall reading that as Guildford is so close the best advice, if possible is to drive at speed to RSCH. In a real emergency, 15 minutes should be possible, and I don't think that is much more than a ambulance response. I know if I had to get someone medical attention in a hurry, I would drive, and then be calling the ambulance on the way. This is not really a political issue, rather the demand upon the NHS, which will likely always exceed available resources. Many years ago, a friend of mine had to go to RSCH. HIs wife and the ill child went by Ambulance to RSCH (from Liphook), he left after the ambulance and arrived first

Re: An Avoidable death - Lucy (17th May 2017 - 21:33:02) This is so unbelievably sad. Thoughts to Willie and his family and this very sad time.

Re: An Avoidable death - SteveA (17th May 2017 - 22:16:47) So sorry to read this. My wife had a heart attack 2 months ago and we were fortunate that a community first responder was with us within about 10 minutes and we had an ambulance after about 45 minutes as it had to come from the QA in Portsmouth. Please pass on my condolences to your friend.

Re: An Avoidable death - Thomas D (18th May 2017 - 02:27:38) This is a very sad story and my sincere condolences go to the family and friends of the lady who lost her life. I personally I feel it is insensitive to be using this tragedy to make a political point. I understand Mr J Trodden is or has been a member of a political party, and has strong partisan views, but this is not the right time or place. It's a cheap, manipulative and tawdry tactic to try to influence voters by first engaging readers' emotions and invoking sincere feelings of empathy and sadness, but then twisting the focus to reveal the hidden agenda of scoring a political point, or at least attacking a particular party. Emotions are still raw and those affected haven't yet had time to come to terms with their loss. Maybe the family gave their permission for this post, we don't know, but either way, I am left with the feeling that linking the tragedy with politics was wrong, especially just before an election.

Re: An Avoidable death - Barney (18th May 2017 - 16:29:40) Thomas D says it all really. And I would like to echo all points raised.

Re: An Avoidable death - Andrew (18th May 2017 - 19:05:03) Jeremy Hunt and the Conservatives plan to sell the NHS off, they have already sold parts to Virgin, before long we will be paying £100's+ a month for insurance or risk having to pay £1000's for actual medical help just like the yanks... 35k for a broken leg ! Jeremy Hunt's lack of funding was the cause last week’s cyber issue as machines hadn’t been updated with a simple and I might add free update that would have prevented it, the funding to manage the updates was withdrawn by him. It wasn’t some high level national security M15 etc's job to prevent it like he pretended it was. It was on the ground staffing/management and common sense that would have prevented it. I wonder how many died from this mistake? Also worth noting that the Rich were totally unaffected by the ransomware attack as not one single private hospital or care was affected.... wonder why? Answer = they are well funded and have enough people on the ground. In addition, when you’re told that the NHS is in trouble due immigrants or people getting prescriptions of paracetamol, or people going to the doctors for no reason etc and you then believe this, then you actually believing a smoke screen story invented by the conservatives to move the blame away from the underfunding that they are in charge off. It’s all a bluff just like the Brexit 350m bus. This country is circling the drain... fact

Re: An Avoidable death - Jo (19th May 2017 - 11:10:59) Please can we not use a poor woman's death as a platform for complaining about politics. Start a new thread about the NHS if you have to but her family must be in pieces and they wouldn't want to know that her sad death is being used for a political agenda. Please have respect...maybe this thread could be for condolences...something her family might actually appreciate.

Re: An Avoidable death - Wendy (19th May 2017 - 12:09:24) Well said Jo.

Re: An Avoidable death - Ian (19th May 2017 - 12:30:00) Mr Trodden and Andrew, utterly appalling, you should both be ashamed! Well said Thomas D, Jo and Wendy

Re: An Avoidable death - Brian (19th May 2017 - 13:21:39) The thread was started with politics and the suggestion that politics contributed to the unfortunate event. In addition condolences and respect have been shown throughout. So I think we will carry on with politics thank you very much as maybe a change in politics might contribute to an improvement of services which will help us all.

Re: An Avoidable death - Penny (19th May 2017 - 14:26:50) I too have great sympathy for the family at this terribly sad time. Totally agree with Ian - well done Thomas D, Jo and Wendy How dare Mr Trodden and Andrew highjack this Thread for political propoganda. Brian too. All of you should be ashamed of yourselves. I know we have free speech in the UK, but there is such a thing as respect. Start your own Thread if you want to "bash" the Conservatives.

Re: An Avoidable death - ian (19th May 2017 - 17:00:18) To be fair, they haven't high jacked this thread as Trodden started it. HOWEVER, what they have done is high jack a terrible tragedy to score cheap political points, disgusting behaviour

Re: An Avoidable death - Kate (19th May 2017 - 18:47:01) Disgusting behaviour of conservative sympathisers attempting to steer truths not "bashing" away from the fact that had emergency services turned up this post wouldn't have existed. You should be ashamed of yourselves for hijacking this post and using the unfortunate person to detract from the opening and fundamental subject of the post! This post is about the "avoidable" nature of this event and its causes which given that we're referring to a public service it is therefore political. You should be ashamed of yourself attempting to knock back legitimate points of view by using this person. Go on... reply and say your not s conservative voter etc, but from now on before you suggest anyone is hijacking anything please read the subject title and first post, if you stray from that then your the hijacker, not the one whom have stayed on subject like Andrew Brian etc. Disgusted

Re: An Avoidable death - Katie (19th May 2017 - 22:53:21) Well said, Kate!

Re: An Avoidable death - Thomas D (19th May 2017 - 23:08:53) Kate, From the unrestrained hyperbole of your post, it is obvious that you are not open to rational discussion and won't believe that I had absolutely no political motive in making my comments. It may not suit your agenda, but that is the truth and I'm certain I speak for others too. If Mr Trodden had introduced his political views first, and then briefly mentioned in outline that there had been a past tragedy which he felt illustrated his point, without going into details, then it would possibly not have been quite so tacky and offensive. But he didn’t. He first described how a very recent sad event had unfolded, in order to appeal to the natural empathy of Talkback readers and then, whilst he had our attention, attempted to manipulate these emotions into political indignation and persuade us to support his opinion on who he believes is accountable for what happened. He merely used the tragedy as a political vehicle to support his agenda. It’s a very cheap tactic, and rare to see anyone stoop as low as this. It's entirely acceptable if, after a publicised tragedy, a bereaved family calls for changes in the law to prevent a similar occurrence or if they push for improvements in for example, public services, roads or amenities of some kind. But to use a sad death to campaign for or against a political party, especially during an election campaign, is grossly insensitive to say the least. Fortunately the majority of the public sees through this kind of manipulative behaviour, and it tends to result in an own goal scored against the person or political party who started it.

Re: An Avoidable death - D (20th May 2017 - 07:40:30) Yes, Thomas is right. Clearly, budget cuts to the NHS have *nothing* to do with the NHS service received... Of course this is a political thread. If you vote for a party (red, blue, green, whatever), it directly affects the NHS service you receive. And yes, by voting for a party implementing 'cost savings' and who are overseeing a reduction in NHS spending per person, it is likely you will see an ambulance service running at an inferior level to which it has done previously. Because they have more people to serve, and less money to make it happen. That's not political spin, it's just the fact of the matter. My thoughts to the family.

Re: An Avoidable death - Penny (20th May 2017 - 09:49:04) Thank you Ian. After I had placed my post I realised what I had said and wondered if someone would pick up on it. I meant exactly what you said in your post which was much clearer than mine. Once again Thomas D thank you for your very well balanced post. I am not even going to comment on most of the irrational nonsense in Katie's post except to say yes I do vote Conservative and yes they are not perfect but their policies and vision are a million times better than the "fantasy world" policies of the present Labour party.

Re: An Avoidable death - It's (20th May 2017 - 13:45:23) If this post is about avoidable deaths and political accountability then Blair and his Labour Government were responsible for 10's of thousands of them! And politicians like Corbyn with their support and justification for murderers like the IRA have also contributed to many avoidable deaths!

Re: An Avoidable death - GG (20th May 2017 - 14:09:13) So a concise rendition of the opening post:- "Someone died because an ambulance didn't arrive in time... and it's all the Conservative's fault. So vote Labour." I do love subtle politics.

Re: An Avoidable death - Andy Black (20th May 2017 - 22:10:35) Not one person said vote Labour, especially those that appears to have a go at the current government. Perfect example of what our government wants, for us to fight among ourselves, classic distraction. Your all sold on the word democracy whereby you think the the limited selection between just 2 probable winners one every 4-5 years gives you some sort of freedom and power.... grow up, its little different than North Korea but it goes by a different name, one than fools you. The NHS isn't what is used to be nor is going to be, party politics aside I think we can all agree is not getting better, cost and risk in this country have been socialized, i.e we pay the price like the banking collapse and profit has been privatized so a select few still and always will get the money, a perfect system for the rich. This country is an international laughing stock now, a self imploded mess yet we are battling it out with British 1940's mentality. PS if you cant even post your name and have to shorten it to one letter etc your points are worthless for you are clearly not able to stand by your own words.

Re: An Avoidable death - David (21st May 2017 - 10:29:42) I found this post heartbreaking, but I can't help but agree that the political footnote was a little cynical and left a sour taste... Nevertheless, I will be voting for Jeremy next month, and I don't mean Hunt. Gibraltar and Las Malvinas are not our most prized possessions, the NHS is. Nobody wants it getting any worse. Remember that the next time you are trying to answer a telephone questionnaire about your loved one who is in a heap on the floor.

Re: An Avoidable death - Giles Gray (21st May 2017 - 19:34:35) Andy Black:- "Not one person said vote Labour, especially those that appears to have a go at the current government." Yes they did Andy. It's called subtext. Maybe I should have said "Vote for the Justice and Anti Corruption Party" instead?

Re: An Avoidable death - James Williams Taylor (22nd May 2017 - 00:05:47) No they didn’t Giles, subtext is just your way of sounding intelligent. In a facts based analysis not one person did, its completely reasonable for us to complain about the current government without being pigeon boxed into the other. A few of you don’t like it, but this isn’t and hasn’t been about political lines, its only about the fact the NHS is getting worse.

Re: An Avoidable death - David (22nd May 2017 - 07:46:17) There was a reference to the Conservatives, but the OP didn't explicitly mention Labour. Criticism of a government's culpability in the matter doesn't necessarily insinuate an endorsement for the opposition party. The objective may have been merely to highlight the problem and pressure whatever administration is in charge to change the current emergency response regime. Unfortunately, the cynicism—mainly coming from people anxious about a potential Labour government—has soured this whole thread, which is essentially about the unnecessary death of a woman who wasn't very old. Personally, I think criticism would be fair whatever government was in charge. If Labour win I hope they do something about NHS practices; if the Conservatives win, I hope they also do something. And out of respect and common decency, it might be in better taste now just to let this go...

Re: An Avoidable death - David (22nd May 2017 - 08:02:42) Perhaps this will put it into some context: facebook.com/BBCSouthToday/videos/... I might be wrong, but wasn't this the Irish family that ran the Railway pub near the station before it was closed down? Sad news.

Re: An Avoidable death - Mood (23rd May 2017 - 10:58:14) If you have a massive heart attack nobody will save you, not even 5 ambulances or if you reach hospital in time.

Re: An Avoidable death - L (23rd May 2017 - 20:40:40) Does your comment help in any way, with any points raised in this whole sad situation, Mood???

Re: An Avoidable death - George (24th May 2017 - 18:25:54) Whilst agreeing that this is not the forum to get involved with politics at all, I have to put my pound's worth in here. My NHS doctor son works in the Midlands - their communities are far more diverse than ours in the affluent, leafy north east corner of Hampshire. However, he says that their appalling working conditions are nothing whatsoever to do with 'increased pressure on resources from immigrants'. It is almost entirely due to the lack of social care in the community which means that they cannot move elderly patients out of the hospitals when they are fit to go home. More and more of us are going to live longer and longer. Conservative, Labour, Green or Martian - we're going to have to pay for it somehow

Re: An Avoidable death - John M (25th May 2017 - 02:31:09) I am so sorry to hear this sad story. Mr Wynne,please accept our deep condolenses for tha tragic loss of your daughter Ingrid.

Re: An Avoidable death - Sally Bruce (13th Jul 2017 - 22:44:24) I have just seen Willie on the news, so many months after Ingrid's sad death. Having moved to the north west I had no idea of this tragedy and am so very sorry to hear about it. If Willie and his family read this, please accept Roger's and my condolences. We spent many happy hours in the Railway and I'll never forget Willie's 60th birthday on the night that Liverpool won the European Cup Final - that was some party! (Roger was in Istanbul so missed it but was enjoying his own party out there.) Ingrid was a lovely, funny, hard working girl (she always seemed like a girl to me) and it's so sad to know that she's no longer with us, even if our paths were never likely to cross again. Rest in peace, Ingrid. Sally Bruce

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