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Newtown Road - SC (8th Nov 2016 - 16:37:21) It's been said before but perhaps some drivers need to be reminded...Newtown Road, right opposite the train station, has signs at either end indicating that no vehicles are allowed on the road unless you are a residents or visitor. Yet every day commuters who do not want to pay for parking at the station leave their vehicle on Newtown Road. As a result residents and their genuine visitors have trouble parking. For those drivers that choose to use Newtown Road as a car park, don't be surprised to have a note left on your car asking you to respect the rules and the lives of residents.

Re: Newtown Road - R (8th Nov 2016 - 16:48:05) Be VERY careful leaving notes on vehicles. Under some circumstances it could be construed as criminal damage. If you don't agree, consider this scenario. A note is put on a car, but there is a frost and his wiper blades stick to the note and get damaged by it. That could be prosecuted as criminal damage.... May be worth considering. I know someone who had an unexpected Police visit for threatening to put notes on cars... We all know that parking is a pain in Liphook, perhaps the issue can be raised by our councillors to get a resolution, rather than vigilante justice!

Re: Newtown Road - A (8th Nov 2016 - 19:16:07) R, Would you be one of the commuters using Newtown Rd as a car park ?

Re: Newtown Road - Dawn Hoskins (9th Nov 2016 - 13:08:49) This issue is never going to be resolved - it is happening in every street in every small village in every area of the UK. Old housing stock built with no provision for car parking, combined with narrow streets which do not have double yellow lines - right next to a railway station. I agree that this is a complete pain in the backside for people who have bought houses with no driveways or garages, I totally understand the aggro it must cause. However, no one has the right to deny the parking of any vehicle on any road that does not have double yellow lines. Unless you wish to have costly residents only parking permits or double yellow lines to prevent ALL parking, you just have to accept that this is how it is in 2016 and will continue to be 'ad infinitum'. As much as it is upsetting to all - you have no right to park outside your own house, if to do so you are parking on a public highway. Unless the highway is marked as an urban clearway any vehicle may park on it. We all probably agree that it would be better for the village if all commuters parked at the rail station car park. However - until this is available for the same price as parking in Newtown Road - it isn't going to happen. People will take the free option every time (unless money is no object). People who commute are not all millionairre traders coming and going to Canary Wharf - many are cash strapped and need to save every penny. If you live next to the Station in ANY town or village - you have to accept that you are going to be blighted by commuter parking. It is distasteful and upsetting, but nonetheless, it is the reality and the alternative would be far more costly and disruptive to your way of life. If you wish to lobby - then lobby Railtrack or whoever operates the carpark. I doubt you will be successful as they too consider themselves cash-strapped and need to make every penny they can out of the commuters. Ultimately you have 2 choices - stay and put up with it; or move.

Re: Newtown Road - Faye (9th Nov 2016 - 14:03:55) Very well said, Dawn. And as a commuter myself, I have to point out that I do pay for an annual ticket at the station (and I'm certainly not 'rich'), however, more recently I am struggling on some days to find a parking space so I often park on yellow lines in the car park! I have complained to SWT and asked if this is going to be addressed but they haven't replied and let's face it.. they're going to do bugger all!! The residents of Newtown road and other roads should expect this problem to get worse.

Re: Newtown Road - Eleanor (9th Nov 2016 - 15:56:57) Dawn, You are missing the point completely. Newtown Road is an access only road; there are signs at either end. The road should be used for access to the properties on this road only. Therefore commuters do not have the right to park on Newtown Road.

Re: Newtown Road - HC (9th Nov 2016 - 16:16:32) Newtown Road is an access only road, clearly signposted at both ends. 'Access only' means that traffic can only use Newtown Road for: 1) Visiting persons or premises on Newtown Road: or 2) gaining access to any persons or premises, on the roads leading off Newtown Road. I'm not sure how it could be enforced, but I believe there is a fixed penalty notice of £30 for failing to comply with the access only status, ie, parking on an access only road, or using as a short cut.

Re: Newtown Road - Keith (9th Nov 2016 - 17:28:28) The importance of the Access Only depends on whether the signs simply say Access Only or whether they are a white circular sign with a red border with a pictogram of a motorcycle and/or car. If they have a pictogram it is an offence to drive down the road unless you are visiting or have business at one of the houses in the road. If there is no pictogram, the sign is advisory only and has no legal standing at all. It's probably worth noting though that if there is a pictogram but no residents parking scheme, then technically cars belonging to people living in the street can only be parked in the road while their drivers are physically indoors or in their garden. If you leave your car in the road while you go to work/shopping/on holiday etc, even if you live in the road, technically you are committing an offence and could receive a fine --- so as the old adage goes - be careful what you wish for.

Re: Newtown Road - tony (9th Nov 2016 - 18:20:08) Is Newtown Road a private road paid for and maintained by the residents or a public road paid for and maintained by the tax payer? I can understand the decision to stop it being used as a rat run, but access should be allowed for everyone or no one to park on our street, unless as Dawn said, the residents want to pay for the privilege of private parking or put yellow lines in for everyone (obviously I know I might not feel that way if I lived there!). Otherwise we could simply close off all of our streets and turn them into free residents private car parks. How about doing that to the entire village? Without having a copy of the Highway Code in front of me, I wonder how "access" is legally defined? It's going to be very hard to prove whether someone was visiting a premises unless there's a policeman standing there watching or filming. Especially since we have the right to remain silent and are innocent unless proven guilty! Who can define what 'visiting' means anyway? Maybe I was just looking at the street to see how well they were using my tax money on maintaining it, perhaps I was hoping to knock on some doors and carry out a survey!

Re: Newtown Road - HC (9th Nov 2016 - 18:38:49) Hi Keith, The signs at both ends of Newtown Road ARE white with a red border with a pictorial of a motorcycle and a car.

Re: Newtown Road - R (10th Nov 2016 - 01:21:41) As the question has been asked...no I don't park in Newtown road, as I don't commute by train

Re: Newtown Road - Faye (21st Dec 2016 - 09:08:20) Further to my comment on 9th Nov, I have this morning received a response from SWT re parking at Liphook station. Just thought it might be of interest to some, though not exactly helpful. Thank you for your email of 1 November 2016. I am sorry for the delay in responding. Due to an increased amount of correspondence, we have been unable to reply as quickly as normal. I am also sorry to learn of your concerns parking at Liphook station’s car park. This has been due to the refurbishment of our Havant and Haslemere car par. The Southern Rail strike has also impacted on our car park as their patrons have been driving to South West trains station car park. Havant / Haslemere car park refurbishment will be completed by end of January 2017. Our franchise is due to expire in June 2017. Between now and then, there are no plans to refurbish Liphook station’s car park. Any refurbishment will be considered in the new franchise and approved by Department for Transport. Once again please accept my renewed apologies for the delay responding and I thank you for taking the time to contact us. Kind regards Kevin Webb Customer Service Centre Advisor

Re: Newtown Road - Ian (21st Dec 2016 - 09:27:43) Faye, what exactly were you expecting?

Re: Newtown Road - liz (21st Dec 2016 - 10:42:27) Presumably Faye was hoping for news of plans to expand the car park. Unfortunately, as the SWT franchise expires next June, it seems they are not interested. It may become a topic for the next franchise period though....

Re: Newtown Road - Paul Robinson (21st Dec 2016 - 11:04:00) The problem of displacement parking around the station is not a new one and with the massive expansion of housing in Bordon and Whitehill will only exacerbate the situation. I have suggested to East Hants District Council that they should consider purchasing the burned out warehouse site in Bleaches Yard off Station Road and turn it into a car park to relieve the situation. Reliance on the train operators, whoever they may be, is not an option. Paul Robinson

Re: Newtown Road - Phelim (21st Dec 2016 - 11:24:34) If people go to the EHDC website and look up the page on abandoned cars you will find that, contrary to the claims of some posters, there is NO legal right to park on the road. Any car parked on the road can be deemed as an obstruction to traffic and removed. I doubt double yellow lines or resident only parking would make much difference. The public car park in Station Road and most of the bays in Midhurst Road car park have a maximum stay of 5 hours but many cars are commuters' who leave the vehicle 8+ hours, while cars regularly park in front of Finlays even though the "bay" has double yellow lines. As to the train car park, hopefully things will improve when the work is finished at Haslemere.

Re: Newtown Road - James (26th Dec 2016 - 16:57:28) I park there so I can go to work because swt charge silly money to park in the car park maybe if they lowered down there prices I might stop parking outside your houses but till then I will carry on doing it ! I travel to London for work and I am not going to get up any earlier to park 10 mins out my way

Re: Newtown Road - Ade (27th Dec 2016 - 11:59:23) As people have said the only way to stop parking is double yellow lines which nobody wants, to the residents accept the fact you choose to live near a station people WILL park in your road, if this is a problem move. As for the station car park people are not going to pay when there is a free alternative and besides this is full, as for the idea with Haslemere car park open it will help it wont as the car park is only for yearly season ticket holders. And lastly you think it's bad now, there are 3,500 homes being built in Bordon, and my guess is a large proportion of them will be coming to Liphook for the train.

Re: Newtown Road - Dollypops (27th Dec 2016 - 12:56:57) James personifies the complete lack of respect and consideration for those around him, together with selfishness, that is so prevalent these days, making life so often unpleasant for others. As long as he is alright, to hell with everyone else.

Re: Newtown Road - D (27th Dec 2016 - 16:44:28) My interpretation of the signs on Newtown Road are "No Vehicles allowed except those needing access to premises". Contentious issue but understandable that resident are getting annoyed at people using the road who shouldn't be. I've noticed many Mums using it as a cut through when the queue on Station Road onto Midhurst Road gets long when taking their darlings to Churchers Junior School. Also James' comment about parking in the road, which I think he shouldn't be and he could get a fixed penalty, not for the parking but for driving down the road). Also found this forum: forums.overclockers.co.uk/... Ignore the first bit about the weight limit but read through and up comes info on Staffordshire Constabulary handing out flyers warning drivers of their wrong doing. Suggest the residents of Newtown Road get in touch with Hampshire Constabulary and ask for some assistance if they are having a big problem.

Re: Newtown Road - Richard (27th Dec 2016 - 16:47:16) Dollypops, do you live in Newtown Road? Commuter parking is an issue everywhere, there are arguments for and against, but while Network Rail and Local Councils continue to regard parking as cash cows, commuters will avoid parking at extortionate charges. James, a question for you...if parking was £1/day would you use it or continue to park on the road? (Not withstanding space availability). And at what price point would you stop using the provided car park?

Re: Newtown Road - Janet (27th Dec 2016 - 19:42:07) @D I sincerely hope that the flyer you linked to wasn't produced by Staffordshire Constabulary! If it was, then whoever wrote it needs to go back to school and the person who proof read it should be sacked!!

Re: Newtown Road - Dollypops (27th Dec 2016 - 22:03:43) No, I don't live in Newtown Road. It was the comment by James which so riled me. There are so many people around like him, thinking only of themselves with no regard for the affect their selfish attitude has on those around them. You only have to read the myriad of posts on this site about people parking across gates and generally without consideration.

Re: Newtown Road - SC (31st Dec 2016 - 12:44:29) It is stretching the point to suggest that placing a note on a windscreen could be construed as criminal damage. You would be hard pushed to prove that slipping a note under a windscreen wiper is intending to cause damage or reckless as to whether it is caused. If that were the case advertising leaflet distributors would be getting arrested left, right and centre !

Re: Newtown Road - R (31st Dec 2016 - 14:43:28) Depending upon the circumstances and intent I believe. If the wiper blade gets damaged, the person placing it could be found guilty. Perhaps best not to go interfering with other people's cars, no matter how irate they cause people to get!

Re: Newtown Road - Dawn Hoskins (31st Dec 2016 - 15:02:41) Dollypops, I understand that if a person parks across your drive, blocks your gates, prevents access to your property etc - that is the height of selfishness. This sort of thing happens in The Avenue at school times and is totally unacceptable (at any time of the day). However, James (and all the other commuters) are not, to my knowledge, doing this; they are just parking on the road and reducing the available space for residents. However unwelcome this is in modern times - it is deemed by the majority as the new 'norm'. To the affected minority it is annoying - but unfortunately, without costly intervention, the 'norm' will not be reversed. In a utopian world - 'Train Station' parking would be free and the tickets would be reasonable - to encourage people to be friendlier to the planet and those breathing the polluted air upon it. This is unlikely to ever happen and when people are hard-stretched to make ends meet, they will always take the free option over the financial hit. IF you want to pay for residents permits - fine. If you want double yellows which would prevent ALL parking - fine. I am not a commuter and whatever your choice is, is all good. Maybe you could get a poll going amongst the residents to find a common ground to campaign for. But all options are likely to cost you either money or loss of personal parking space. The alternative is 1. Put up with commuters or, 2. Move house. As you purchase only the footprint of your home and have no rights over the pavement or highway, there is no 'in between' alternative. You can either live with commuter parking and accept it as one of the 'downsides' that come hand in hand with the 'positive' of living so close to a train station - it or you can't - but telling people they are selfish or sticking notes on cars will never change the situation. It is happening next to every train station in every village in the UK. The same as inconsiderate parking next to schools in every village in every county and loud church bells ringing from every steeple. We have to accept there are positives and negatives at every place we choose to rent or buy. There is a balance to be struck at every property.

Re: Newtown Road - Eleanor (31st Dec 2016 - 17:17:27) Dawn, You are missing the point again. Newtown Road is an access only road which does mean commuters should not even be using the road unless they are residents or visiting a property on the road. They should under no circumstances be using it to park their car to use the train station.

Re: Newtown Road - Richard (31st Dec 2016 - 20:41:23) I went and had a quick look for a definitive answer, and despite what it is supposed to mean, there is so much room for interpretation and circumvention, I wonder why they bother putting the sign up in the first place! The only way to stop parking on this road will be to put a parking restriction on it, but this will impact the residents too. As Dawn said, what are you prepared to tolerate, the commuters parking there, or restrictions. Commuters not using it voluntarily does seem to be an unlikely outcome.

Re: Newtown Road - tony (1st Jan 2017 - 00:59:02) The question is why is a public road made 'no entry except for access'? The answers can only be either: a) To turn it into a private road b) To prevent parking by non residents c) To stop it being used as a cut through/rat run If the intention is a) then that is undemocratic and would not stand up in court. If b) then the correct order would be either residents parking permits (paid for) or meters or restrictions applied equally, without favour, anything else is discriminatory based on a false conveyance of private rights over a public road. So the intention of the order was almost certainly c) and nothing else, only c) can be applied without implying privileges than don't exist and I doubt would stand up in court. Anyway, the legal arguments would be interesting. The conversation with the police officer could be interesting too: Officer "Aha! I saw you accessing this road, do you deny it?" Motorist "No Officer, I admit accessing this public road" Officer "But this road says no entry except for access" Motorist "Yes, that's right" Officer "Right, got you, so you admit accessing it!" Motorist "Yes, but you admitted it first" Officer "Don't get clever, your admitting you accessed this road and I saw you access it" Motorist "Yes, that will be my defence, that you admit I accessed it" Officer "But YOU can't access it!" Motorist "Yes I can" Officer "OK, you can't access it to park though" Motorist "I didn't access it TO park" Officer "But you accessed it AND parked, I saw you" Motorist "That's an entirely different thing" Officer "Right then, but what were your intentions in accessing this road AND parking then?" Motorist "Do I really have to answer that?" Officer "Well no, of course not, this isn't North Korea, it's up to us to prove that your intentions didn't meet up to the residents high expectations of visitors to this street, not up you you to prove that they did" Motorist "And can you?" Officer "To be honest, I'd rather be out catching real criminals" HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Re: Newtown Road - Dawn Hoskins (1st Jan 2017 - 12:53:32) The point has not been missed, but there are 2 points running simultaneously. Parking Restrictions do not exist on this road. Access Restrictions exist, but NOT Parking Restrictions. That is the main point. The 'Access' signs are ambiguous and difficult to enforce, whereas parking restrictions are fixed, easily understandable and easy to enforce. If there is a FREE parking versus 'paid for' parking decision to be made - people will choose the place which is free and which has no parking restrictions. This may be unacceptable and unwelcome to you - but it is normal behaviour. I feel your pain, but you have only 2 options. Stay or Leave.

Re: Newtown Road - R (1st Jan 2017 - 13:05:31) Well put Tony :)

Re: Newtown Road - Dawn Hoskins (2nd Jan 2017 - 18:14:08) I have done some further digging as it seems there are two schools of thought. It is all very ambiguous and unsatisfactory as there are no definitive guidelines or definition – not even in the ‘Highway Code’ - as to what ‘Except for Access’ actually means. It seems that the ‘Except for Access’ signs are originally erected to prevent certain roads being used as short cuts or rat runs. They are Traffic Orders. There is an instance of a person being given a fixed penalty ticket for breaching said ‘Traffic Order’ when driving through a road which had a sign at each end, and parking. The ticket was not for the parking however – just for driving in and out of the road in the 1st place. This car had the ticket physically placed upon it by a police officer who attended when a resident called the police to report the registration number of the car – which was still parked around the corner at the time. On another site, the police seem to indicate that the sign is nothing to do with parking, just about preventing a rat run – so stopping people driving through and cutting the corner off. They said that to enforce a no parking zone [as well a no driving in one end and out the other end] you would also need parking restriction signs or double yellows. There is conflicting information all over the internet as different areas seem to deal with it differently. I think that to get a definitive answer regarding Newtown Road specifically – and therefore how police officers in Hampshire would enforce the TRO, then Hampshire County Council’s Highways Department should be spoken to. Residents could do this themselves or also ask the Parish Council to do it for extra weight? From looking online it seems that TROs should be reviewed every three years. If they are reviewing them, then surely they can tell us what they mean and whether residents can enforce the restrictions. Link below. http://www.easthants.gov.uk/traffic-management/traffic-regulation-orders I imagine that any enforcement would need a) the police to attend, and, b) for every person in every household in the whole street to confirm that they had not invited the driver of the parked car around for a coffee?! I will be very interested to hear what Hampshire County Council have to say. Please let us know here. I will be very happy if what I have previously said (about being able to park there if there are no double yellows or residents parking scheme) is incorrect. Happy New Year.

Re: Newtown Road - Terry Smithers (14th Jan 2017 - 23:15:52) THE ANNUAL PARISH MEETING FOR THE PARISH OF BRAMSHOTT & LIPHOOK MONDAY 23rd MARCH 2015. (Page 15) “Abuse of Newtown Road “Access Only”. This has been investigated three times this year by the Police and by EHDC’s Parking Enforcement team. The main problem seems to be the use of the road by through traffic. The Police have made it clear that enforcement is very difficult as proof is required that a vehicle entered the road at one and left at the other and did not visit a property in the road whilst doing so. The Police have made it clear that they do not have the resources to enforce this restriction. EHDC Civil Parking Enforcement officers will ticket all offending vehicles. Please note that their powers relate to breaches of visible signage and do not extend to “obstruction” which is dealt with by the Police.”

Re: Newtown Road - Richard (15th Jan 2017 - 09:42:29) Here is a suggestion: Make the road a no through road, either by closing off one end, or by blocking it in the middle. No more rat running, but commuters will still park there. So the next step will have to be some form of parking control, which will stop commuters, but will massively inconvenience the householders who live there. It may come down to a decision for the residents which is the lesser of two evils, more parking restrictions or random commuter parking

Re: Newtown Road - Alison (15th Jan 2017 - 13:05:35) My mum lives in Newtown Rd she's 84 when I drop her off with her weekly shop or when I go to see her, I can never get parked and, it's all full with commuters cars, I've seen them coming off the train in the evenings sometimes, go and park in the station car park, and as for the idiot who said if u dont like it, put up with it or move, my mum has lived there for 64 years, so let them move their cars!

Re: Newtown Road - Dawn Hoskins (17th Jan 2017 - 10:32:11) Dear Terry Thank you for posting the info from the Annual Parish Meeting. The problem is the vagueness and ambiguity isn’t it. The signage seems to be to prevent the ‘offence’ of driving in one end of the road and out of the other – as you would a rat run. There does not seem to be an ‘offence’ or an investigable/enforceable one at any rate for driving in one end, stopping and leaving the vehicle all day. That, it seems, is neither rat-running or causing a blockage to the highway. To my knowledge, the residents don’t have a problem with occasional through traffic, but they do have a problem with parking? From the police info, it would seem you need three things to happen: proof is required that 1. a vehicle entered the road at one end; 2. the same vehicle left the road at the other end; 3. no one from the vehicle visited a property in the road whilst doing so. If the parked cars and state of the road has been ‘investigated’ THREE times by the Police and by EHDC’s Parking Enforcement team, and during these investigations – no commuter’s cars were ticketed, it seems hopeless to expect this to ever happen in the future.

Leaving notes on my car - Julie (26th Feb 2017 - 19:16:41) Who ever keeps leaving notes on my car on the road opposite Liphook train station could you please stop , I understand that it is your road but the train station car park is always full in the morning and I haven't got much of a choice

Re: Leaving notes on my car - Richard (26th Feb 2017 - 20:04:39) I think we have been here before!

Re: Leaving notes on my car - B (27th Feb 2017 - 00:05:40) Everyone has choices. You could walk, ride a bike, use public transport or get there early enough to get a space. I can empathise with the resident(s) who are leaving notes on you car as it is an absolute nightmare when computers are parking their cars and causing congestion. Please remember that you're in the wrong here, perhaps looking at the other persons point of view and their reason behind the notes before you post something like this on here then you can make changes to your current problem. However I'm willing to bet my mortgage it's got nothing to do with available space but more to do with free parking.

Re: Leaving notes on my car - Richard (27th Feb 2017 - 09:04:41) And commuters don't like paying for parking, and the residents don't want parking controls! This was all brought up last time. Threads have now been merged

Re: Leaving notes on my car - D (27th Feb 2017 - 12:31:22) Julie, If you're parking your car in Newtown Road I believe you shouldn't be there in the first place. The road is a "No vehicles" road except for access to a property in that road. If you aren't visiting a property (actually going into the curtilage of a property to visit or deliver) you should not be turning into and travelling along that road. I think a note on your windscreen is actually doing you a favour, a lot cheaper than a fine and possible points on your license. Due to the recent interest in this issue I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a spot check in the near future. Also I drive past the station car park most days around 08.00 and it's not full every day. Also, for those interested, I don't live in Newtown Road, just someone with a little empathy for it's residents and who also gets annoyed at people who don't follow the rules.

Re: Newtown Road - Richard (27th Feb 2017 - 13:39:31) All Julie has to do is step inside the curtilage of a property? And then she is good to go? Isn't there an office with an entrance in Newtown Road? (Exchange House). Might be difficult to prove the access issue

Re: Newtown Road - Dawn Hoskins (27th Feb 2017 - 13:53:40) D It isn't a 'No Vehicles' road. It is a road that you are not supposed to use as a rat run. The offence is to drive in one end and out the other side. Housing stock built a long time ago did not come with parking, and like millions of other home-owners this is a problem. If you want to prevent all visitor parking in the road you will inevitably have to pay for it. If teh residents want to pay for parking permits in their road then that is something they can organise - until then - if the car park is full then you are going to get people parking there. It is inconvenient, yes. The only answer is to move out and buy a place with a driveway or a garage. I know that sounds harsh - but that is the only answer unless parking permits are introduced.

Re: Newtown Road - Dave Lambert (27th Feb 2017 - 16:32:42) Why don't you just block then and when they come knocking on your door don't answer it. I think then they might get the message. The next day leave a message on there windscreen to tell politely that they should park elsewhere.

Re: Newtown Road - A (27th Feb 2017 - 18:05:05) Dawn, once again you need to get your facts correct and read the highway code.And why should residence who have lived in newtown road for a good number of years move house.We have a Porsche parked up from between 5.30 and 7am and is still there at 6pm.You can,t tell me the car park was full at that time in the morning`.

Re: Newtown Road - D (27th Feb 2017 - 18:21:06) Maybe I'm reading the wrong Highway Code but the circular sign with a motorcycle above a motor car means "No motor vehicles". The plate underneath that says Except for Access means "Except for access to premises or land adjacent to the road, where there is no other route". So in this instance I believe you should not travel down this road in a motor vehicle unless you need access to a property on Newtown Road. Saying you need Access to the other end of Newtown Road won't wash as there is an alternative route via Station Road and Midhurst Road. If you intend to just park in the road and not visit any premises you are contravening the sign and could be liable for a fine and possibly points on your licence. That's how I understand it and therefore don't drive down that road!

Re: Newtown Road - Richard (27th Feb 2017 - 20:01:55) Don't think the idea of blocking them in. May be construed as obstruction. And what you don't no is what happens if they decide to retaliate? Not a good outcome usually. My advice is learn to turn a blind eye if possible

Re: Newtown Road - GM (28th Feb 2017 - 15:44:37) I think the only way this is possibly going to be resolved is by the residents clubbing together and getting a contract with a private parking company. We did it on a road where I used to live and with there being quite a few of us, it didn't hit too hard (although the charges went through the facilities management company of the estate) Enforcing these types of things are so difficult unless you get a contractor in place to enforce it

Re: Newtown Road - helen (28th Feb 2017 - 16:36:13) hi it is not a private road, it is classed as a public highway, it would not be legal to enforce parking yourself. It is up to the county council to change any signage, or you could club together and set up a scheme to adopt the road privately, in which case residents are responsible for all issues arising including potholes!

Re: Newtown Road - nick (28th Feb 2017 - 18:24:11) Who said it was a private road. If it has a sign board as all ready mentioned those cats are breaking the law are they not? Perhaps a resident from the road would like to tell us all their views. Dawn I see danger on your last pargraph,A suggestion like that is like putting a red flag in front of a bull

Re: Newtown Road - Dawn Hoskins (28th Feb 2017 - 18:28:35) Dear ‘A’ (27th Feb 2017 18:05:05) When you say “once again you need to get your facts correct and read the highway code” Can you clarify which bit of the Highway Code I have misread and which bits of police reporting I have misread. Instead of simply stating that I have got it wrong – please tell me what your definition of the Highway Code is – so we can all learn from it. We are all in sympathy with residents of any road that gets ‘parked up’. It is happening next to every railway station in the South east and it must be horrible. But without paying a price – it is not going to change. You can either get double yellows down the whole road, which would severely restrict residents, or you can set up a permit parking arrangement for residents which will cost you a fair whack. Nothing else will stop commuters from parking outside your houses. I am not saying this to be mean to you, to ‘get at you’ in any way. It simply is a fact. I can hear that you are angry about the situation, and I feel for you. But being angry with me is pointless – I don’t park down your road. I don’t agree with commuters parking outside your houses nor do I condone it. You need three things to happen for an offence to have taken place under the highway code, which the police will then be able to prosecute against. Proof is required that 1. a vehicle entered the road at one end; AND 2. the same vehicle left the road at the other end; AND 3. no one from the vehicle visited a property in the road whilst doing so. Police and enforcement officers from EHDC have looked into Newtown Road parking and ‘investigated’ the parked cars on THREE separate occasions. During these investigations – no commuter’s cars were ticketed. It is futile to expect this to ever happen, as the facts that have to be established make prosecution under the Highway Code almost impossible. ‘A’ if you know a different version of the Highway Code, I would be very interesting to know it. I would also like you to illiterate which other bits and bobs I have got wrong. Saying that 'once again' I've got something wrong is only worth it if you tell me what it is I have stuffed up. I can only fix it if I know what is broken.

Re: Newtown Road - Terry (28th Feb 2017 - 19:45:59) Helen, yes it is a public road, but it is a public road with legally applied access and parking restrictions, the road does not require any extra, or different signs, the signs which are there are perfectly adequate for the purpose and are legally enforceable. As pointed out by “D” above, on both sides of the road and at both entrances to Newtown Road, are clearly visible prohibition signs - red circles with white backgrounds - on the white background is the depiction of a motor car, and above that a motor-cycle, the meaning of which is “NO MOTOR VEHICLES”. However, affixed to the post immediately below the circular sign is a rectangular sign which reads “EXCEPT FOR ACCESS”. Except for Access means “Except for access to premises or land adjacent to the road, where there is no other route”. Quite simply, all that is required here is that people actually obey the law, instead of believing that the law only applies to other people!

Re: Newtown Road - ian (1st Mar 2017 - 08:49:45) As with so many laws, by laws, regulations etc, there is no enforcement nowadays. With restrictions on public finances as they are, the police and local authorities simply do not have the resources to enforce rules such as those that apply here and to be honest there are probably more pressing matters that take priority. I guess the only practical solutions could be; Residents lobby the local authority (or whoever is responsible) to apply more effective parking restrictions (enforcement will still be an issue) or Residents start to park very closely to offending vehicles effectively blocking them in without actually committing an offence. I'm pretty sure that your average commuter when inconvenienced this way will find somewhere else to park (therefore effectively giving someone else the problem)or We all pay significantly more local taxes so in theory the authorities have more finance available (they will probably though look to use the additional income to feather their own nests.) or The local residents just put up with the fact that all the posts in the world will not alter the fact they live near a railway station and unfortunately very few commuters will give a damn about the inconvenience caused and selfishness of their actions!

Re: Newtown Road - Dawn Hoskins (1st Mar 2017 - 12:16:37) The signs do not restrict parking per se. They are making a public highway into a 'no-drive through'. The restriction is for using the road as an access road (rat run). According to the police and the Highway Code, you need three things to happen for an offence to have taken place under the highway code, which the police will then be able to prosecute against. All three - not just one. Proof is required that 1. a vehicle entered the road at one end; AND 2. the same vehicle left the road at the other end; AND 3. no one from the vehicle visited a property in the road whilst doing so. So, if a station parker turns around and exits the way they came in then no offence can take place.

Re: Newtown Road - greg (1st Mar 2017 - 13:32:34) So this is turning into the normal Liphook Rant .. The problem here is people are confusing parking restrictions with road access, they are not the same. I would guide you to the published document hants.gov.uk/... if you look around page 60 under Road closures and restricted access it clearly states the following : This restriction shall not be used to deal with parking issues. In the past they have been used as a means to help prioritise parking for residents in roads where there have been commuters or shoppers parking. The use of the restriction for this purpose was generally made when the police were still responsible for parking enforcement in most of the district council areas. Since the introduction of Civil Parking Enforcement in most parts of the county, which means parking restrictions are more likely to be enforced, it is now more appropriate for parking problems to be dealt with through parking restrictions as opposed to the ‘access only’ restriction. This restriction will not, therefore, be used to treat a parking problem unless yellow lines, time limited parking or a residents’ scheme is deemed to be unsuitable. Existing ‘access only’ restrictions that were implemented for this purpose will remain in place unless they are no longer effective, in which case a parking restriction may be considered as a replacement. So in short using the restrictive access to enforce parking is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. However I am not dismissing the issue, after trying to park in the station car park yesterday only to find it was in fact full, I drove to Haslemere and got on the train there. So I would like to redefine the issue as I see it. The car park at liphook station is no longer fit for purpose Sorry to comment on this slow day in the office. Greg

Re: Newtown Road - Faye (1st Mar 2017 - 13:38:30) Oh god not this again! As a commuter (who pays annually to park at the train station) I understand why the Newtown Road residents would get frustrated, I've been through it myself, but it happens all over the country and nothing is going to be done so what's the point in complaining - there are more important things to worry about in life. Either like it, do something about it (other than moan) or MOVE!! I personally rather permits weren't introduced down Newtown Road because my concern is if too many commuters park at the station, I won't get a space myself which I pay annually for.

Re: Newtown Road - Helen (1st Mar 2017 - 16:11:34) My reference to the private road is it is Not advisable for residents to interpret the Law and apply it themselves on a public highway With or without restrictions!

Re: Newtown Road - Mandy (1st Mar 2017 - 17:31:42) Hahaha I love this!! Come on u lot lighten up, stop bickering like a load of kids and sort it out! Theres worse things happening in the world than a few parked cars! This is getting boring now, and what's with all the police cones down Newtown Rd???

Re: Newtown Road - Helen (1st Mar 2017 - 20:17:04) I suspect it is residents who have got hold of some, they are available to buy. The police would have to publicsise the alterations. Unless the double yellow line painters are arriving?

Re: Newtown Road - Hal (2nd Mar 2017 - 20:00:25) This parking problem is very common, especially in London, and the best solution I have seen is to restrict parking to residents permit holders only for a short time, say between 12-1 Monday to Friday. This then stops any commuters being able to leave their car there all day. Fundamentally, it is a public road paid for by everyone, so anyone can park on it - no one has any rights to parking spaces on the road they live on unless it's a private road...

Re: Newtown Road - dave (3rd Mar 2017 - 09:16:46) A better solution might be to provide commuters with better, cheaper parking. It is surely in everyone's interest to encourage people to go to work by train rather than car with all the consequent cost of pollution and road maintenance etc.

Re: Newtown Road - Terry (3rd Mar 2017 - 14:41:26) Hal, do you not understand the meaning of traffic prohibition signs? Newtown Road has access restrictions applied to it which are mandatory, they are not voluntary. Using your “it is a public road paid for by everyone, so anyone can park on it”, logic, it must therefore be perfectly legal to park on any road anywhere, irrespective of any parking restriction, even double yellow lines!

Re: Newtown Road - Dawn Hoskins (3rd Mar 2017 - 16:42:15) Hi Terry I don't think that Hal is saying he can park anywhere [even on yellow lines] I think he is differentiating between a parking restriction and an access restriction. They are two very different things. Newtown Road has an 'Access Restriction' you are prohibited from using it as a 'rat-run' and that prohibition states that you can't drive in one end and out the other unless you are visiting a property on the road. (If my understanding is correct - if you drove in one end - turned around and drove out of it again - you would not have committed any offence). Newtown Road does not, and never has had, any 'Parking Restrictions' on it - such as double yellow lines or permit only parking. One of the reasons that the police have never been able to ticket vehicles is that it is impossible to prove that cars have been driven in one end and out the other which is what causes the offence to take place (this is my understanding of the law. 'A' thinks I am wrong but is yet to explain what his definition actually is). I agree that commuters shouldn't park there, it is totally annoying, but as there is no prohibition on parking and it is a public** road, people will continue to do so. [**If it was a private road they would be trespassing]. It would be very helpful if an EHDC enforcement officer or a Hampshire police officer would expand on their current policy, but as yet this has not happened. They have investigated the situation a number of times, but never 'fined' parked car owners.

Re: Newtown Road - Terry (3rd Mar 2017 - 21:46:43) Dawn, a red circle on a regulatory sign indicates that it is a prohibition sign, meaning “YOU MUST NOT”, in this case, you must not enter any part of Newtown Road with any motor vehicle. The rectangular plate situated immediately below the prohibition sign is to indicate the exemption applicable to the prohibition sign, and reads “EXCEPT FOR ACCESS”. The statutory meaning of “Except for access” is, “Except for access to premises or land adjacent to the road, where there is no other route”. Taken together, the two signs mean that you must not enter Newtown Road driving a motor vehicle, UNLESS you are going to access, or visit a property on that road. If someone enters and exits Newtown Road by the same access point, whilst driving a motor vehicle, and without visiting any premises or land adjacent to that road, then that person is quite clearly offending against the order. If someone parks in Newtown Road and leaves the area, that is offending against the order. A fixed penalty notice can be issued to offenders and a police or traffic officer does not have to be present to witness the offence, nowadays photographic and video evidence should suffice.

Re: Newtown Road - jo (4th Mar 2017 - 10:49:39) Ok everyone I live on this much talked about road. The selfishness of commuters is apparent.The noise they make squeezing their cars into small spaces maneuvering back and forth, banging car doors, talking in loud voices at 6am or before every morning The issue seems to be do they have the right to access the road to be able to park. Well after checking with a police friend of mine - no they don't. Basically yes they could park but to be able to do this they have to access the road, not to visit friends or because they live there, but purely to park.This is where the offence occurs. What really gets me is the cars we mostly see are the higher end models. Surely if you can afford a merc or porche you can afford a parking ticket? Hops this answers that issue, my biggest gripe is the people using the road as a rat run purely because they cannot be bothered to wait at the end of station road in small line of traffic cutting maybe 2-5 mins from their journey!!! usually parents on school run. The speed they come down the road and the fact they expect us to give way to them when we try to leave or get home is infuriating. As for those of you who say put up shut up or move well thats what wrong these days no thought for others. Majority of residents have lived in the street for a many number of years. I'm guessing those people don't have this problem in their lives. If you don't want to pay for parking move your feet and walk or move closer to a station or place of work.

Re: Newtown Road - nick (4th Mar 2017 - 16:01:36) well said Jo we now have the info so no more can be said just actions

Re: Newtown Road - Jim (4th Mar 2017 - 18:02:07) Thanks for that, Terry. I see I now have to ring on someone's doorbell (to fulfil the obligation to access premises or land adjacent to the road) before running off to catch my train.

Re: Newtown Road - Terry (4th Mar 2017 - 18:34:19) Jim, you would still be guilty of parking and leaving the area, an offence!

Re: Newtown Road - Jim (4th Mar 2017 - 20:51:41) But Terry you say : The statutory meaning of “Except for access” is, “Except for access to premises or land adjacent to the road, where there is no other route”. There is nothing to say it is offence to leave the area after accessing the premises or land adjacent to the road.

Re: Newtown Road - tony (4th Mar 2017 - 22:39:16) This is great, I mean it's like a farce. Terry, are you saying you can drive in to that road, access a premises but then have to drive straight out again instantly, you can't leave on foot. What if a mate comes to visit and you invite him up the Anchor for a pint, does he have to drive whilst you walk? Hang on, surely you can't access the road by car and leave the area on foot either, surely you'd both have to drive, in fact you must have to drive everywhere???

Re: Newtown Road - Janet (4th Mar 2017 - 23:40:10) The only answer to this problem seems to me to be a permit-holders only parking restriction. Residents would be eligible to apply for a permit, for an annual fee, which would enable them to park in the road during the restricted times: the restriction could be "permit holders only from 10.00am till 11.00am Monday to Friday". That would prevent non-resident commuters from parking there all day. The down side would be that legitimate visitors needing to stay all day would be inconvenienced by having to move their cars elsewhere during the restricted times.

Re: Newtown Road - Terry (5th Mar 2017 - 12:03:56) Jim and Tony, et al. I did not pluck the meaning of “Except For Access” out of the air, the statutory meaning is clearly explained in the government booklet, Know Your Traffic Signs (pages 17 & 18). I would suggest that your own interpretation of the meaning of what is a mandatory sign would not cut much ice in a court of law. www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/...

Re: Newtown Road - Dawn Hoskins (5th Mar 2017 - 12:05:52) Let's ask the Parish Council, to seek clarification from the Police and EHDC enforcement team. The law is an ambiguous mess with police forces all over the country treating this Road Sign differently. I doubt if there is a countrywide definition - but let us ask them to clarify what the definition is, at least in Liphook! Certainly, my understanding of this bit of civil law is different from other posters here. Mine is based on case-law only - not on the highway code. I doubt we would get a personal response from the police if we ask individually, but the Parish Council clerk will have a liaison/contact, so perhaps if they ask we may get a result?!

Re: Newtown Road - liz (6th Mar 2017 - 08:39:27) Whether breaking the law or not, I think you would have to be mind-numbingly selfish to use this road for commuter parking when it is so obvious there is a real issue for residents. (No, I don't live there!)

Re: Newtown Road - tony (6th Mar 2017 - 14:55:29) I don't think anyone is disputing that the residents are having a problem with both rat running and other motorists parking in the street and need a fair solution. I agree that the signage is 'well intentioned' in as far as preventing rat running goes, I have no problem with that side of it. Although even the council admit the sign is unclear, open to interpretation and not one they would choose anymore (as someone else pointed out), there are more equitable ways to address this problem (for example, making one end no entry, one way or a dead end, but leaving the other end open to all, timed no entries, there are other options too), that people would never dispute. But somehow I suspect the residents wouldn't fancy the inconvenience and like the idea of a 'sort of private road'. But the public are rightly asking if we as motorists, tax payers etc pay for the road, own the road, how can a sign ban some people from accessing it, but not others. There is a whole question of right and wrong, freedoms and power that people are more willing to challenge nowadays than in the past, the council is simply being questioned and called to account and interestingly they don't seem to be keen to enforce it and have the signage put to the test in court. So that in itself would seem to make it pretty useless, failing in it's objectives and disruptive. Also how is it rude to park in a street with no parking restrictions? People have always parked in that street because it's right next to a high street and station and we own it! Parking restrictions, well thought out, allowing a mixture of residents bays, short term shopper bays (pay or not), disabled bays etc that would be the correct solution and would be fair to all the roads owners and users. This would normally be applied after consultation with all users, both residents, shoppers, people going out for the evening etc. It may be that the correct solution would be timed restrictions as someone else mentioned, perhaps weekdays or Mon-Sat 8am to 5pm, something like that, it's how most parking restrictions are met and is perfectly lawful and non discriminatory and simple to enforce. You don't buy the road when you buy a house. If you need a car and there's no off road parking, you made the mistake, not us, but you still don't own the road. Sorry, but by a house on a public road, across the road from a mainline station, just off the high street, don't come crying tom me about parking. I'm suggesting fair solutions to both parking and 'rat running', not a quasi road 'privatisation' where we carry on maintaining it but are banned from even entering it! On the matter of parking restrictions, once you accept that rat running and parking issues need to be addressed seperately, not in one convenient, but highly disputed sign, then you actually have to ask what signs currently prevent parking, for whom and what are their implications? We've already argued in a silly way about whether a motorist could access the road, knock on your door (perhaps to invite you to dinner), then go and catch a train. One answer is that no, you can't walk out of the road after accessing it, but must drive out, (presumably you'll need guards asking to see your papers on sentry duty), but if that's true, does it apply to everyone (residents, no walking to the shops anymore) or is it just more guesswork?. You see the sign says nothing about "unless you live here" or "you cannot walk out of this road if you drove in". So assuming you could park up, knock on the door, say "I love you, please have dinner with me" and then catch a train, then the sign is pretty useless in so far as preventing parking and more importantly, enforcing it goes. I know ultimately it could of course be put before a judge to decide what it all means, to determine if you had a valid reason for access etc., but the point is the council can't or won't (what do they know?) and the police can't or won't. Does anyone here know if that's ever happened and if so, what the judge decided amounted to a good reason for 'proper access'.

Re: Newtown Road - liz (6th Mar 2017 - 16:19:10) Tony says, amongst a lot of other things, that this could end up in front of a judge. Well that's how things are for many people nowadays. Much better though if people could just be more considerate.

Re: Newtown Road - Brian (6th Mar 2017 - 17:53:50) I would urge people to read the link posted from the Hampshire CC website by greg above (Pages 60-61). In this document, it does validate the interpretation of these signs to prevent non resident parking ("In the past they have been used as a means to help prioritise parking for residents in roads where there have been commuters or shoppers parking"). From a drivers perspective the meaning of these signs is still valid in preventing one from using the road for parking for the station. As such, it is inconsiderate to use the road for this purpose. From a residents perspective it does also comment that these restrictions are no longer enforced as before and that "Existing ‘access only’ restrictions that were implemented for this purpose [resident parking] will remain in place unless they are no longer effective, in which case a parking restriction may be considered as a replacement". For me the "unless they are no longer effective" is key and if I was a resident, I would be talking to the council about gettting a more effective scheme in place. If one is looking at ways of enforcing this restriction (from a rat run perspective) I do know of a nearby council that used the road speed watch scheme to make notes of what times cars entered and exited the road at each end. The drivers that were deemed to have used it as a rat run where then sent an informative letter as to the meaning of the sign. They had significant drop in the numbers using it as a rat run as most people were unaware of this meaning.

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