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Cyclists on the road to Rake - Victoria (8th Jul 2016 - 15:33:17) Seriously who on earth thought it would be a good idea for large groups of cyclists to ride from The Links through Rake at school pick up time possibly one of the busiest points of the day. It's not a great road at the best of time, throw in about 50 cyclists spread along the road with all its blind bends and hills and it's an accident waiting to happen. Terrible planning!

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - David (8th Jul 2016 - 18:37:04) Here we go! Driver v cyclists thread alert. Cyclists move over a bit. Drivers you just have to wait. Deal with it people!

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - Jayne (8th Jul 2016 - 18:46:44) It's only an accident waiting to happen if drivers let their impatience get the better of them. Roads are not dangerous, those who use them are. It's quite simple, only overtake when's it's safe to do so.

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - Richard (8th Jul 2016 - 23:37:57) Don't forget cyclists, as it is in the cyclists section of the Highway Code so you must all have read it. You should not be riding two abreast. Single file only. I'm sure they'll all pay attention Yeah right!

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - Dave L (9th Jul 2016 - 10:01:23) One thing people neglect to mention when having a go at cyclists is that the majority are motorists who choose to keep fit by cycling, they pay road tax, they are aware of other road users and try to be considerate, the main problem seems to revolve around sofa sloths who's idea of keeping fit is to jump in the car at every opportunity (mobile sofa) and think they have the devine right to their own little piece of tarmac, Lord help the guy peddling when the owner of the road is delayed in reaching his Big Mac or driving their little tykes 300 yrds to school. Always remember when you shout, push them off the road or generaly abuse cyclists that they are people with families and lives just enjoying being alive...give a bit of room, give a bit of time, you could save a life.

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - David (9th Jul 2016 - 13:40:15) Quite agree Dave L, also as a note to Richard (who is wrong by the way!)it has been proven to be safer over taking larger groups of riders 2 abreast, if you think about it logically it is easier to pass a group 2 wide and 4 long opposed to a group 8 riders long. The length of the actual overtake is half! Besides rule 163 says: give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211 to 215). So if you are such a good driver and obey the highway code it should make NO difference! Also the highway code also states you should (not must) ride more than two abreast unless on narrow or busy roads or on bends.

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - dcb (9th Jul 2016 - 14:18:24) It didn't help that on the single stretch of road just past the Black Fox, before the dual carriageway, one of the lead group of riders was cycling virtually along the white line in the middle of the road, looking backwards at the following group as they were coming towards me!!!!

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - andy (9th Jul 2016 - 18:26:35) David probably owns a bike or at least feels he needs to defend the cyclists, determined to poo poo any Drivers post. When a driver comes across a Peloton on the way to Rake and around a corner is dangerous, end of story, an object doing 40 approaching a crowd doing 20 and that crowd being on the middle of the road is dangerous, get over it, no need to jump to the defense of cyclists when common sense has already prevailed

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - Richard (9th Jul 2016 - 19:06:58) Please note: Different Richard. For those who have moved to the areas since the early 90s. The road of which you speak used to be the A3. Cyclists were the least of its problems If people on the school run are having problems with passing large groups of cyclists, may I suggest a refresher course with a driving instructor? It seems that blaming cyclists for inadequacy with over taking skills is a bit odd. ]

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - VDG (10th Jul 2016 - 13:01:48) OK, so I came across a couple of cyclists on the old A3... bends, hidden dips, double white lines, on coming traffic, I didn't think it safe to over take 2 cyclists who were in single file but not separated far enough apart to be able to overtake in 2 goes, so I waited patiently ... and kept being patient until it was safe to do so without putting myself and my passenger or the cyclists in danger. Unfortunately, the car behind me wasn't so patient and decided he/she knew better beeping their horn. For heavens sake, if you're in such a hurry you should have left earlier.

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - Finchie (11th Jul 2016 - 09:10:56) The first Richard is absolutely correct, you should read the Highway Code, and so should he. "Rule 66. never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends" Get your facts right. You can cycle 2 abreast when safe to do so. A great link which I encourage everyone to read. Includes a nice simple diagram about the logic of 2 abreast vs single file. ukcyclelaws.blogspot.co.uk/p/the-laws-according-to-highway-code And the reality that the stretch from the Links to the dual carriageway past the Black Fox is a complete nightmare. Even the most stupid motorist and cyclists should realise that ( see what I did there - nice and balanced - you do get stupid motorists and stupid cyclists - often they are the same people 😀 ). Fast road, very narrow, not safe to overtake EVEN SINGLE FILE cyclists with traffic coming towards you. So DON'T try and squeeze past leaving 2 inches and no margin for error. As someone pointed out - be patient. I cycle a reasonable amount with many other local cyclists, often 2 abreast on the Hampshire and Sussex lanes. The trick is when you hear or see a car behind, make a quick effort to make it easy to be overtaken, and thank the motorist. Guess what - not one issue in over 20 years, and I'm sure other cyclists agree. What gets me when cycling two abreast and you can see half a mile ahead, there is no oncoming traffic and a driver gets irritated you are not single file. The motorist can still overtake safely - they are just irritated we having a nice sociable chat ! What gets me when driving, and cyclists are two abreast and oblivious to what's behind and ignore you for a long period of time !! Sadly if you follow the Highway Code and give a quick toot as a warning to make them aware of you - that is seen as an act of aggression by said cyclist and world war 3 breaks out !!!! Solve that one ! Let's get perspective folks - and see either "party's" point of view. Cheers Finchie (a driver, cyclist and motorcyclist - in that order by time spent !!!).

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - dave (11th Jul 2016 - 22:48:23) Rule 66 states: "You should ... never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends" where 'should' is defined in the Introduction as 'advisory'.

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - Finchie (13th Jul 2016 - 07:14:03) And just to remind everyone basic maths... "More than two" is 3,4, ... Otherwise it would have been written "Two or more". Seems this simple point is lost in much of the on-line debate !! So much so, sometimes I think "is it just me" - cue entertaining responses ... Happy cycling and driving, Finchie

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - liz (13th Jul 2016 - 08:25:03) Cycling two abreast is not safe on roads in our area. They are too busy. (I write as a driver, cyclist, pedestrian and very occasional horse rider).

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - dave (13th Jul 2016 - 10:32:39) Liz, What evidence to you have for your claim that riding two abreast is less safe? Don't most accidents involving cyclists occur when they are NOT two abreast? Riding two abreast might be inconsiderate and frustrating for drivers, but surely preventing drivers from squeezing past would make accidents less likely and improve safety.

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - liz (13th Jul 2016 - 13:29:31) Dave It appears you have made the usual statistical error. If most accidents happen when cyclists are not riding two abreast isn't that more likely to be because most cyclists don't ride two abreast? Blocking other road users is not conducive to road safety in my view and is only likely to encourage more dangerous 'squeezing past'.

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - dave (13th Jul 2016 - 23:11:38) Liz - I note you still haven't provided any evidence to support you assertion that riding two abreast is less safe.

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - h (14th Jul 2016 - 00:27:34) Hi Dave, you are also adamant about your statistics, do you have any evidence that more accidents happen when a cyclist is in single file?

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - Finchie (14th Jul 2016 - 07:32:11) Come on now, let's be constructive. Those stats don't exist :-) But these do rospa.com/road-safety/advice/pedal-cyclists/facts-figures Closest stat is 17% attributed to the driver being "‘careless, reckless, in a hurry". That was only 17 deaths in 2014 ! Very scary indeed. Slow down. Most in urban areas. Two thirds at a junction. Annually, that leaves a couple, in the country, not at a junction. Hope it's never here. Cheers, Finchie

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - liz (14th Jul 2016 - 08:24:52) Dave Get a grip this is a local blog not a court of law. If you read my post carefully you will see it is my opinion, but as a an experienced and, I hope, observant road user. However no doubt you will ask for evidence as to my years of driving experience and a recent eye test!!

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - liz (14th Jul 2016 - 10:12:55) Sadly around half of fatal cycling accidents occur on rural roads. Please see Finchie's link above and cycle safely.

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - Susan (14th Jul 2016 - 13:47:41) Finchie Who and/or what is attributing to the other 83%?

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - Mick (15th Jul 2016 - 01:07:13) Dave owns a bike, cycles on roads and hate's drivers when he is in the saddle, pure and simple, his belonging to that group means more to him than common sense, in his mind its them v us. All group's have idiots, drivers do, cyclists do and any other group you care to mention. He has not took the time to understand any other sensible post, instead he just reacts upon what he thinks he has read. Dave is in that part of his group and should be ignored entirely. Cue Dave "I don't own a bike" + made up stats in reply, anything and everything to punch some keys and make him feel like he bossed it.... we all know a dave

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - Finchie (16th Jul 2016 - 08:30:16) Good question Susan. Was tempted to say a sarcastic - "So I clicked on the link !". I did - and it's not particularly clear This is my assessment ... Contributory Factors 1st "Failed to look properly" between 20% and 46% (i.e. majority) - car driver in 57% of serious collisions and - to the cyclist in 43% of serious collisions at junctions. 2nd "cyclist entering the road from the pavement" 20% 3rd = "poor turn/manouvre" 17% 3rd = "careless, reckless, in a hurry" 17% Poor show by us drivers I'd say ! Lucky I don't run the country as I'd mandate one week of cycling in London before anyone can take their driving test ! The would see a significant improvement !!! You're welcome, Finchie

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - dave (16th Jul 2016 - 08:49:07) It is sad when people, who are unable to make rational evidence based argument, resort to insult and abuse as if that makes their point of view any more valid.

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - Richard (the first one not the second one) (16th Jul 2016 - 13:05:14) So that means Finchie that in accidents caused by cyclists at junctions 43% of them were not paying due care and attention (therefore contrary to the Highway Code) and 1 in 5 had an accident after leaving the pavement (also in contravention of the law, as it is iillegal to cycle on the pavement)

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - dave (17th Jul 2016 - 10:21:09) So according to TRL Report PPR 445, 2009, the study on which the RoSPA report is based, there was not a single accident attributed to cyclists riding two or more abreast.

Re: Cyclists on the road to Rake - Finchie (25th Jul 2016 - 22:24:42) Spot on Richard and Dave. As I've said before there are both stupid drivers and cyclists :-) Just to hijack the thread. Just returned from motorcycling in France in the Alps and there were many cyclists and motorcyclists. We could learn a thing or two from the French. Drivers are SO aware of 2 wheels, it was a real pleasure. Back in UK and within 10 miles was cut up. Perhaps I'm just unlucky ?!!

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