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Plan Brexit
- Jim (30th Jun 2016 - 12:27:20)

So this is how Plan Brexit is shaping up:

1) No second referendum and no general election until May 2020, so article 50 will be invoked when the conservatives elect a new leader (BoJo?) in October.

2) The government says it will take 10 years (ie to 2027) to negotiate an exit deal, but article 50 says that in 2 years (ie 2018) we either lose access to the single market or we accept whatever deal they wish to impose on us.

3) That deal at best will be like Norway (which the EU have said wont actually be offered but let's assume it is). That deal will bind the UK to all the EU laws, rules and regulations exactly as before but without any representation or say. It will mean we have to pay our contribution to the EU budget as before but without our rebate or any say in how it is spent and so maybe we wont get back that which we currently enjoy. It will mean accepting the free movement of labour and EU citizens as before but with the Calais immigrants now on UK soil. The EU will probably allow Scotland and NI to remain in the EU as full member states if they secede from the UK

In other words Plan B is for the UK to be broken up and for England to stay in the EU in all but name only but at a higher cost, no representation and with more immigrants.

4) The leave leaders have already reneged on their promises of increased funding for the NHS and public sector. Large companies like Vodafone now have to relocate to remain within the EU so loss of jobs and tax revenue is likely to lead to a cut in funding for the NHS.

I know Brexit is a great victory for us 37% 'majority' but I'm beginning to wonder why I voted to leave. Can anyone help me?


Re: Plan Brexit
- Richard Robertson (30th Jun 2016 - 13:47:50)

As the old saying goes better the devil you know than the devil you don't

However our voting area actually voted remain (which I was surprised about but well done everyone who did.)

However considering when Scotland had there referendum 16 and 17 year olds could vote our referendum can not be declared to be fair until we do the same.

Seems strange to me that it's trumpeted on the news as UK CHOOSES TO LEAVE when out of a UK population of 70 million only 17 million did.

Which means 53 million did not.

So-called democracy in action there

Re: Plan Brexit
- Mrs Jackie (30th Jun 2016 - 13:52:59)

Johnson is now not running, as he does not want to sort the mess out :-)

Re: Plan Brexit
- h (30th Jun 2016 - 13:55:26)

Boris has retired from the leadership race, so he was the man people listened to for the "out" campaign. I do think that those who voted out were mostly voting out for emotional reasons which had nothing to do with securing a good future for us. They were obviously thinking a magic wand could turn back the clock to their rosy image of Britain which was actually very far from rosy for most of us!

Re: Plan Brexit
- tony (30th Jun 2016 - 15:06:02)

At the moment it's all just talk, posturing and speculation. Of course it's worrying for everyone, have you all never laid it on the line before and negotiated? Not a time to fall apart, step forward those with courage, we will negotiate the best deal not just with Europe, but India, China, you name it, already loads of EU countries are talking of leaving to join us in the free world, how do you know we can't do even better? Surely you don't intend to go crawling back to Brussels with your tail between your legs already? Would you really and ignore the legal vote of the democratic UK?

Re: Plan Brexit
- andy (30th Jun 2016 - 19:05:41)

Tony

What has the word Democratic got to do with anything, sure we got to tick a box and to make our own minds up with our own choice, but how fair is it that if we have been influenced by lies

It's a sham, democracy is a sham in this instance. it's just our name for the method of control, leaders like Gaddafi and Sadam used force and fear to get their votes, the leave campaign used lies.

The country was mugged off, and your use of the word Democratic makes me pity your level of rational and reasoning, democracy was invented for you as it comforts you and makes you believe everything is OK

If a we were given the opportunity to vote again today it would be a very different outcome FACT

Re: Plan Brexit
- tony (1st Jul 2016 - 09:47:59)

andy, it's funny how the 'remainers' who are largely left of centre, are suddenly complaining about the limitations of democracy, or the total failure of democracy!

For years I've been wondering about the three card trick being played on us by the LibLabCon, if you don't like Labour's policy of ever more immigration and more devolution to Brussels, you can vote Conservative and get ever more immigration and more devolution to Brussels instead. Or maybe a hung Parliament which will give you ever more immigration and more devolution to Brussels, you get the drift. Don't worry, you have a choice every 5 years.

In reality it has become one non ending plutocracy run from behind the scenes by the same tax exiled barons and their obedient minions.

Then some overconfident fool gave us a referendum and we each had a vote on a single issue. Coupled with the age of the internet and chat rooms like this, we have NEVER had so much uncensored free information and the people had months to read, debate and assimilate it free from the government press department censors.

Suddenly the left are calling that undemocratic! Translate that as "we lost, no way Jose!"

This country has never done ANYTHING so democratic in our lifetime! And up on Parliament Hill they probably all agree that they will never do it again. Because they didn't like the result either.

Of course we can't all be captains of the ship, but when the losers say "that was undemocratic" what they really mean is, "that was too democratic, we felt safer serving the masters we knew, please don't ask us again". And they'll be very happy to oblige you, so don't bottle it now.

Re: Plan Brexit
- h (1st Jul 2016 - 10:18:42)

Tony, your description of me as a remainer as "left of centre" really made me laugh! I think it was really the other way around! People were centred on their primary issue such as immigration and didi not have the logical deductibe reasoning to realise the descision would impact negatively on everthying else.
I asked one lady i knew for her reasons for voting "out" and her response was laughable- " My husband says would you leave a british woman in a room full of foreign rapists? "
I know plenty of British Criminals who I would love to get rid of! That sort of illogical thinking has led to Nigel Farage, the Sun and the Mail, messing with the facts and misleading those who do not think for themselves! A previous poster has said things will improve- I cannot afford to wait for that thank you!

Re: Plan Brexit
- Big A (1st Jul 2016 - 11:04:13)

Once and for all………..

WE ARE OUT (UNFORTUNATLEY)

NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE FOR AT LEAT 2 YEARS IF NOT LONGER

NO ONE KNOWS WHAT GOING TO HAPPEN NO ONE….




Re: Plan Brexit
- dave (1st Jul 2016 - 12:19:33)

Big A. You are wrong. The referendum had no legal significance and is not binding. It did not make us out. It did however send a powerful message to the government to move in that direction. To become OUT the government has to invoke Article 50 and then wait 2 years. Only then will we be OUT. Article 50 has not yet been invoked so the current status is we are still IN.

Given the leadership chaos in the two main political parties with a pro-REMAIN candidate the front runner for the next PM, who knows if Article 50 will be invoked before 2020 when there will be a general election which could result in a pre-REMAIN mandate.

Only 37% of the electorate voted LEAVE and the LEAVE leaders have all reneged on their promises of what LEAVE would mean. So as you say who knows what will happen but until something does happen we are IN.


Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (1st Jul 2016 - 14:39:56)

In response to Tony above.
Yes, the link you had made between Reaminers and the left is as comic as many Quitters assumptions during the referendum campaign.
Yes, there can be such thing as TOO democratic.
Yes the referendum was democratic, but was gravely abused and far removed from the idealistic notion of a pure and clean referendum.
And yes, damage done is damage done, no way back on that - even though a referendum today would bring up the opposite results. Let's not further abuse the practice of referendum by seeking to repeat it anytime soon. There may be other ways (e.g. the online petition, parliament etc..) to alleviate the damage.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Harry (1st Jul 2016 - 17:10:30)

Lots of people saying with absolute certainty that another referendum today would achieve a different result. What a load of old tosh. A few people stupid enough to vote the wrong way and admit it on tv doesn't make for a landslide in the other direction.

Others saying only 37% of the population voted to leave - well significantly less than that voted to remain but you ignore that fact.

Honestly, all you pathetic, lily livered bremaniacs need to sort yourselves out. 42% of the leave votes came from educated professionals, not the uneducated poor so you're also spouting incorrect statistics there too to promote your agenda.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Rich (2nd Jul 2016 - 01:24:52)

I think its clear Tony had been found out for making s**t up..... keyboard warrior..... an alone.... keyboard warrior ... x

Can we move on to the valid posts now

Re: Plan Brexit
- tony (2nd Jul 2016 - 10:09:31)

Hmm, It seems you can't handle debate Rich.

Made up Rich? That's a big grown up allegation. It's up to the editor to decide what he publishes on his site, if you don't like it don't come here,though it may do you some good to practice your grammar, proof read, Rich!

At least my opinion is constructive, Rich. I am not always right Rich, but I do try to listen to other people and try not to be abusive, I enjoy the written word, is that terrible in your lowbrow world, Rich, or perhaps you find it a little too emotionally challenging?

I add my opinion to some debates that matter to me and when people shoot me down with different opinions or facts, I don't moan, do you understand? So stop whining because you didn't get your way this time, sorry Rich. Go play a game or better still read a book or something. This is a thread specifically aimed at differing opinions on something rather important to people, Rich. Look up democracy, then come back when you can listen as well as speak. And grow up.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (2nd Jul 2016 - 10:28:33)

I absolutely agree with Harry. I voted out and if we had another referendum "God forbid" I would vote out again. I thought long and hard before I voted and listened to as many arguments and opinions as I could. I am not a moron or a racist. I did not vote "out" out of self interest or for any other reason other than I genuinely believe leaving the EU is the best thing for our Country. If being in Europe was just about a Trade Agreement I would have voted "in", but its not. There is even talk about a European Army in the future heaven help us all. I do not insult "remainers" so I would ask them not to insult those who voted to leave with these inaccurate, untrue and sweeping generalisations. It doesn't help - we need now to all recognise that a democratic decision was taken and we should all work together to build a better future.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Mrs Jackie (4th Jul 2016 - 17:21:38)

Well well, first Johnson and now Farage, do you think they have thought S**t what have we done?

Re: Plan Brexit
- Ian (4th Jul 2016 - 19:42:49)

They don't think, that's the problem, same with the others as well. We really have the most lousy uninspiring group of politicians at the moment, so depressing

Re: Plan Brexit
- h (4th Jul 2016 - 20:24:45)

The plan for a european army was quickly dismissed by EU politicians, it was part of the Brexit spin nothing more. Thanks to the EU we have had peace in Europe for many years now. The minute we voted out! Spain kicked off about Gibralter. The Gibaltarians will now not have free entry to and from Spain, where a lot of them work and have relatives.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Jim (4th Jul 2016 - 23:58:48)

The first referendum voted to join the EU, the second voted to leave, I expect the third one will be to rejoin.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (5th Jul 2016 - 13:31:58)

H,
The concept of a European Army in the future was not invented by Brexit to boost support in the Referendum - see text below which was published in the International Business Times by Rachel Middleton on 3 May, 2016

“Germany is pushing for a European army in the 28-member EU bloc, according to a white paper put forward by the German government. The army is envisaged to have a joint headquarters and shared military plans.

The news may upset the Brexit debate in the UK ahead of the EU referendum vote scheduled for 23 June. The Leave campaign, which has been warning of the further integration with the EU, will now have more ammunition to back its claims.”

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (5th Jul 2016 - 14:38:21)

An EU army is a reason to stay in - not quit!
If an EU army is against the UK national interest, the UK needed to be objecting to it from the INSIDE.
Now the UK will be out, no voice in the EU. The EU army may well be turned against the UK at any unknown point in the future.
Brexiting means the EU army decision will be beyond the reach of the UK, Brexiting places the UK front-to-front with the future EU army; or more correctly: England alone against the EU.
That's if we needed more reasons to stay in...

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (5th Jul 2016 - 15:58:58)

Regrexit. You need to talk to someone in the British Army and I think then your views would change.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Mrs Jackie (6th Jul 2016 - 10:56:32)

Well said Mr Junker, saying that Johnson and Farage are chickens. Farage didn't have the guts to into parliament yesterday.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Rich (6th Jul 2016 - 23:15:27)

So easy to pull some strings and sit back and watch them type their own unfolding littered with contradictions.

Re: Plan Brexit
- dave (11th Jul 2016 - 22:14:33)

So the last Brexit campaigner has quit, not wanting to sort out the mess they have created - magic.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Paul A. (12th Jul 2016 - 09:48:24)

I've witnessed many political situations over the years similar to the rows between MPs, and others, following the Brexit success. Just sit back and watch the grown ups throwing their toys out of their prams because they can't get their own way - it'll settle down in time and we'll be wondering in a couple of years what was it all about!

Re: Plan Brexit
- A.R (12th Jul 2016 - 11:00:25)

So Dave, What mess is that then ? Not the news that Boeing expects to create about 2,000 new UK jobs in the coming years by building a new £100m facility at RAF Lossiemouth in Moray for the planes the government plan to buy from them ?
Oh and the FTSE 100 has risen to an 11 month high.
Sterling rose more than 1% against the dollar to $1.3149, and was 0.6% higher against the euro at €1.1826.
Interest rates may go down... my mortgage will be even cheaper!!
A lot of farmers are beginning to see better possibilities for their produce, if handled correctly things could be on the up for them.
You talk it down though Dave, I am sure there are many out there who want it to fail. Why?

Re: Plan Brexit
- Paul A. (12th Jul 2016 - 11:55:42)

Well said, AR. Sadly the moaning from the losers will go on and the good news, as you pointed out, will simply bypass them.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (12th Jul 2016 - 17:30:42)

I too have read the BBC report on that Boeing investment - somehow less rosy than the above Brexitters see it. That investment is in no way a credit to Brexit:

It doesn't say when the investment will take place (just as May doesn't say when Brexit will be invoked);
It reports the investment was decided on five years ago not having known about Brexit;
The target site is in Scotland who are pro-EU and may devolve;
The 2,000 jobs figure was a rough estimate and is rationalised as part of future jobs by operations expansion in Europe.

The same report also states that most companies were pro-Remain and that this year's orders are down on last.

Re: Plan Brexit
- A.R (12th Jul 2016 - 18:41:03)

Regrexit. Of course the Boeing deal had nothing to do with Brexit.
How ludicrous to think that that deal was whipped up in two weeks.
The point being made is that business and corporations should not panic or give in to scaremongering, but invest in this country and not scarper out the back door at the slightest whiff of media panic, as that's what it is.
It's about time the news reporters stopped this barrage of anti reporting on this subject. We didn't fall for it then and we won't now.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (15th Jul 2016 - 17:43:26)

The irony:

That referendum which was hailed by Brexitters as a victory to the will of the people had led to a government decided upon by less than 200 people.

In that government the prestigious role of Foreign Minister had been handed to the man who misinformed the Brexiters before abandoning them...

Can this be more ironic? Moronic.

Re: Plan Brexit
- DR (15th Jul 2016 - 23:44:58)

The first referendum we voted IN, the second OUT, no doubt we will vote BACK IN AGAIN in the next.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Finchie (16th Jul 2016 - 07:47:43)

Nope DR, the master plan is being followed to the letter after this weeks cabinet shake up.

In, Out, shake it all about.

Going forward we will turnaround, bend our knees, give a good old arm stretch and then finish by having have a flipping huge RaRa party.

Mark my words.

Enjoy the weekend when summer finally starts, Finchie

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (16th Jul 2016 - 14:19:08)

Indeed DR,
The vagaries of the general public voting...
Some Brexiters voted Out because they 'have had enough of the annual humiliation at The Eurovision'...others voted that way for reasons no more relevant.
Let's hope this referendum would serve a powerful future lesson to nations and governments never to submit such complex and intricate decisions to referendums. We pay qualified and trained public experts and professionals so that they make the optimal decisions for us - override those on our peril.
Everything is good in moderation. Boundless reckless democracy is a senseless anarchy.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (23rd Jul 2016 - 00:58:18)

UK financial current outlook downgraded to worse since 2009 is due to Brexit.
Any counter-steps by the Government or Bank of England to steady the ship would eventually translate to tax revenue expenditure. More of our tax-payer money wasted on Brexit and more austerity for the foreseeable future thanks to that...

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (23rd Jul 2016 - 10:58:39)

Regrexit, we are as we are. The majority, albeit with a fairly small margin and for whatever reason, voted to leave the EU. Nothing can change that – there will be no more referendums for the simple reason that you cannot keep having referendums just because the answer wasn’t what everyone wanted. That is not the point of a referendum and to go down that route would waste more taxpayers’ money and create yet more uncertainty. We have to move forward and to look forward. Negativity and doom and gloom are not going to help anyone and anything. It is early days – give Theresa May and her team a chance, give the people of the UK a chance and have some faith.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Ian (23rd Jul 2016 - 11:49:23)

Regrexit - I voted to stay in EU as well but we are not, really is time for you to move on now, life goes on, the Sun will still rise and set tomorrow.....

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (23rd Jul 2016 - 14:16:18)

I never suggested another referendum and never said life had ended or the sun will not shine.
I am reflecting on a decision accepted on a national level and its regrettable outcome, this isn't the last we will hear on this. Nothing wrong with opposing to a decision made, this is what parliaments (Oppositions) are about and thank goodness for that.

Re: Plan Brexit
- andy (23rd Jul 2016 - 23:52:56)

Can we do away with this "sore loser" vibe now please, it makes those suggesting it sound like toddlers. Even if remain lost they are still entitled to go on making the argument. When one party wins the general election etc, the losing party does not just go, oh sorry your completely right, we were wrong and we will say NOTHING for 5 years! Democracy protects the right to be heard and to keep making the argument that we all or individually see fit.
Also enough of this its "done now, let’s make the best of it" nonsense, a massive amount of people rightly feel an injustice has occurred, masses of people whom voted leave have found out that the principals of their own vote was flawed. Don’t dance around stating “Democracy” as Sadam or Gaddafi could well have told the same tail to their own people, promise one thing, deliver the other. We are not actually that different, if you think the banner of democracy makes you so different than you have been sold.
Those at the top on both sides want you to be a sheep, none of them want you to be a lion, all views are accepted in a democracy, but make damn sure those views are your own, and don’t for a second use the words “democracy/democratic” like it’s a vip pass to what is right or wrong. If your fed shi* you might vote shi*, it does not follow that its right

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (24th Jul 2016 - 08:08:40)

Thank you Andy.
Also, the referendum is not the same as Brexit, it is just the tip of the iceberg of the sheer volume of work ahead of us now. The (long and hard) process of Brexit will have to take into account Remainers' views at least as much as those of Quitters'. So the Remainers' argument is as valid and valuable as pre-referendum days. Keep 'harping on' about Brexit to minimise, perhaps postpone the harm of it.
I'd go even further and say there is nothing wrong with Quitters criticising and optimising the referendum aftermath and the Brexit process. You (Quitters) would not be disloyal to your camp, you would be loyal to your nation.

Re: Plan Brexit
- dave (24th Jul 2016 - 08:58:46)

Don't forget that in the first referendum the nation voted to join Europe but that didn't stop the Europhobes campaigning to leave.

We Europhiles must now campaign all the harder to winl the third referendum which will surely come, even if not for some time.

Re: Plan Brexit
- susan (24th Jul 2016 - 09:53:07)

Regrexit I never suggested you mentioned another referendum, but a great many remainers did and of course that this is their democratic right as it is their democratic right to speak out against the result of the referendum. My post was trying to convey that all this doom and gloom is not helping and we need to move on. It is very early days and we haven't even left the EU yet so instead of talking everying "down" how about a bit of optimism. After all no one really knows what is going to happen.

Andy I don't feel that I was being fed "rubbish" and was "conned" into voting Brexit. I thought long and hard and if there was another referendum tomorrow I would vote the same way so please don't make insulting and sweeping statements that you cannot back up and you cannot back this up unless you talk to everyone who voted Brexit. I assure you the people I know that voted Brexit feel the same as me and would vote the same way again.

Dave In 1972 when we voted to join the EU I voted in but it was a competely different package being offered then. It was about becoming part of a Trading Agreement with Free Movement of LABOUR. Notice the difference - not the Free Movement of PEOPLE and we still had the right to make our own laws and decisions and not be beholden to a European Court who can override our Courts. We are a Sovereign State and I want this protected. The EU were steadily and stealthily eroding this. Over the forty odd years since then the EU has morphed into something I and I suspect a great many other people did not vote for.

Who is to say that in the far future, not the near, there might be a third referendum, but it took over 40 years to get a second one.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (24th Jul 2016 - 10:46:27)

dave: Let's hope no more referendums on such intricate subjects, we now know the voters are not up to it. Let's hope a wise government will postpone Brexit on-and-on as long as possible.

The main headlines today talk about the disruption of border controls. Yes we know these are to combat recent terror (by the way, the disruption is serving terrorists' goals). The relevance of this is that we are getting a little taster of what crossing border would look like in post-Brexit Little England.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (24th Jul 2016 - 11:14:02)

susan,
I know a number of Quitters who would vote Remain given a SECOND chance, but again: I do NOT want to see any more referendums on big subjects like the EU.
Regrexit is pointing out and illustrating the problematic Brexit results, not what I call doom-n-gloom, not about negativity but about reflection. I too want to see us all make the best of the regrettable situation and do our best to prosper in any given circumstance.

Re: Plan Brexit
- A.R (24th Jul 2016 - 11:54:45)

Andy
Where do you draw your conclusions to your statement:-

Also enough of this its "done now, let’s make the best of it" nonsense, a massive amount of people rightly feel an injustice has occurred, masses of people whom voted leave have found out that the principals of their own vote was flawed.

Maybe you have been referring to the polls?
Look how wrong they always are.
If anything more people are beginning to think it was a good idea.
Maybe you have browbeaten enough of your acquaintances into submission judging by the number of posts you have posted.
Could you tell us why you think leaving the EU is bad ?
Could you explain what affect it has had on you ?
Could you tell us what the EU has done for you personally and what will change?
Do you not think making our own laws for our own Kingdom is not beneficial?
Do you not think making trade deals around the world is not good news?
Do you not think keeping our own money and distributing it to areas that we decide is not better?
Trade and tourism will still go ahead, it is in no countries interests to not do so.
So please enlighten us as to the inside information you have to the disaster that is awaiting to befall us all

Re: Plan Brexit
- dave (24th Jul 2016 - 12:33:46)

Now that we've gone down the referendum route, there will have to be another referendum to overturn the result of last referendum which was required to overturn the first, when the full economic consequences of Brexit are felt. Those of us who are old enough can remember the poverty that existed before we joined. It may take a while but there will be another referendum, you can be sure of that.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (25th Jul 2016 - 14:10:16)

In today's news headlines:
UK business optimism dropped to lowest since 2009 is due to Brexit.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Alan (25th Jul 2016 - 14:16:21)

Last week houses prices falling because of Brexit.

That of course would be a good thing to allow more people into house ownership.

This weekend - house prices rising !


Would be nice to get any consistent messages !

Re: Plan Brexit
- A.R (25th Jul 2016 - 14:49:53)

Low pound, helping exports, and appears to not be harming certain imports, BBC news this morning, trying to find a bit of scaremongering, slightly backfired there I do believe.
Too many optimistic people, out there, not what they want to be be putting out on air.
Of course there will be some that suffer, but that is the way of business, that always happens. I just hope it hurts the greedy rich like Philip Green, and that there is some justice for his workers.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (25th Jul 2016 - 16:43:44)

The news headline I have heard today was on a NON-BBC radio station.

Re: Plan Brexit
- dave (25th Jul 2016 - 19:32:40)

Alan, falling house prices is not a good thing and does not allow more people into house ownership - just the opposite in fact. The housing market is a free market so if people are poorer then house prices fall to match. So the number of people owning houses remains the same - it is just a reflection that the nation is less well off. The negative impact of lower house prices is that developers are less inclined to develop if they cannot cover the build and land acquisition costs and so therefore few houses are built meaning few people have the opportunity to own a house, not more.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Alan (25th Jul 2016 - 19:41:38)

Dave, so Brexit has done something good then. As the latest reports were of house prices rising.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (25th Jul 2016 - 22:46:04)

Referring to above posting:
Assuming Brexit was indeed 'a good thing' for raising/lowering housing costs: Is the cost of housing really the reason Quitters have voted Leave? So we have left all the known benefit of being inside the EU in order to perfectly predictably alter housing costs? Or is it just a shrapnel totally out of control and the negative chaos the Out referendum had thrown us into?
If you are so clever predicting national housing prices, you could have made millions in the City, pre-Brexit City that is...

Re: Plan Brexit
- H (26th Jul 2016 - 11:16:16)

contrary to lowering house prices a lack of confidence in the future will mean developers will go bust as the city will not be lending to fund them.It will mean less houses get built. There are plans to build thousands of new houses but there will be no infastructure money if houses get built, so all the moans about traffic now in Liphook will increase if more houses are built in the area. We should be careful what we wish for.

Re: Plan Brexit
- David (27th Jul 2016 - 02:21:07)

A lot is being made of these new "free" trade agreements with China/Australia being offered, and the leave people are frothing over them as a sign of success.

Has anyone took the time to understand what "free trade" is? It's no restrictions, no costs, no protection etc... Still sounds great ?

NO! It's not actually that amazing, of course China wants free trade, they sell us more than we sell them, they want no restrictions to sell us their own stuff but they are not actually going to buy the same amount in return. The result is China makes lots of money selling us stuff cheaper than our own manufacturing can supply and we LOSE jobs, we in turn sell a lesser amount back... CHINA WINS!

Same goes for Australia, free trade agreements only make sense when both parties benefit near equally.

Under the EU the laws protected EU economies and got the best deal for all of Europe whilst allowing free trade within, so now we have lost protection from the rest of the world and lost the advantage of our neighbours

And in response to A.R ask yourself all the questions you posted, where is your conclusions or answers? nothing and I mean nothing positive as so far occurred with leaving.. It's all a promise and it's all some distance glory none of us can touch, its all hope and pray at this stage with the occasional jump onto something minor, fingers crossed it works out but the early macro signs are indisputably awful !

Re: Plan Brexit
- Paul (27th Jul 2016 - 10:10:39)

David I hope you heard the news this morning about GlaxoSmithKline deciding to invest £275 million because they think the British economy is still sound. No doubt you pessimistic remainers will try to talk this down and rubbish this good piece of news in your usual negative way.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (27th Jul 2016 - 14:04:03)

Referring to the above posting, a single company thinks (says) that the UK economy is STILL ok-ish... What about the many more other company who have done the exact opposite? There will always be some investment or lack of it, companies would reason it one way or the other - often far from true reasoning. There is little that is as it seems in big business.

A slightly different argument: this morning news talk of post-Brexit free-movement between EU and NI. How does this fit in with Brexiters' big argument against free movement between the UK and the EU?

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (27th Jul 2016 - 16:15:14)

Well that didn't take long for the "negative" camp to come back. I don't know where you get your information from but here are a few quotes I read today:

"Brexit: EU considers migration ‘emergency brake’ for UK for up to seven years."

"Diplomats working on deal to give Theresa May greater concessions than those won by David Cameron, despite French doubts."

"Plans to allow the United Kingdom an exemption from EU rules on freedom of movement for up to seven years while retaining access to the single market are being considered in European capitals as part of a potential deal on Brexit."

'No clear evidence' of sharp post-Brexit economic slump."

Anyone can cherry pick - I am probably doing the same, but at least I am being positive and looking forward with hope. Sad you cannot do the same Regrexit and accept what is now taking place and be thankful we have someone strong and sensible like Theresa May who will put Britain and all of her people's interest first. She has to deal with things as they are not as you and the other remainers would like them to be.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (27th Jul 2016 - 18:56:48)

Best of luck to May and may she uphold what is expected of her, she just may.
And recent news headlines: May is seeking better security intelligence sharing amongst EU nations on the war against the Islamists. She is probably heading advice from major UK security intelligence of how crucial the EU membership is on this subject. What would Little England need to trade for this privilege post-Brexit?


Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (27th Jul 2016 - 19:04:22)

As for "free" trade deals independent from the EU:
Brexiters like to boast the UK's fifth largest economy. Well, by leaving the EU the UK (perhaps just Little England if the Scots devolve) is leaving the biggest world economy. What terms of business could Little England expect to have without the massive backing of the EU? Or perhaps against the EU?

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (28th Jul 2016 - 15:36:59)

Just a few headlines and quotes dated 28 July in The Express by David Maddox – and before the remainers say anything just read the quotes and if you are going to challenge them please do so knowledgeably and intelligently and don’t just rubbish the quotes and The Express.

1.No stopping booming Britain: Rush to invest in UK as Brexit economy soars.

2.Britain is enjoying a Brexit boom fuelled by a series of major investment announcements and official figures yesterday revealed that the economy is racing forward.

3.Fast food giant McDonalds reaffirmed their commitment to the UK. It wants to create an extra 5,000 jobs by the end of next year.

4.In an added boost to farms a deal has also been announced for the US to start buying British meat again despite a ban of meat from the EU.

5.The FTSE 100 has risen by 26,4 points while the FTSE 250 shot up 196.81 points.

6.Liam Fox the Trade Secretary says “I think one effect of the Brexit vote is that it is going to discourage the City from excessive focus on Europe”.

7.GlaxoSmith Kline has also brushed aside Project Fear claims and announced that it is pumping £275 million into its three UK manufacturing sites dubbing the UK as an “attractive location” since the Brexit vote.”

Re: Plan Brexit
- David (30th Jul 2016 - 02:35:21)

Susan, add this one to your seven (8. 350m will be spent on the NHS)
As it's the same lies, minor half truths being presented by the 52% ers.

We are in the S*** already and somehow it's being ignored with toss from the "express" if you told us you got those headlines from a toilet door in brio we might have considered them more valid than the express.

No point engaging here anymore, am out. It's a fact that the economy (on stats that count, not text punched out by crap papers) has got worse, and it not a fact it's going to get better for years to come.


Re: Plan Brexit
- Brian (30th Jul 2016 - 06:40:24)

The quote from The Express about a growing economy is correct. The figures released about the economy were impressive. However, these were the figures for the economy before the referendum. It will be many months before the economic data with the actual overall picture is released.

For the moment the main guides will be those surveys about confidence. Other possible indicators will be the state of recruitment. Are employers overall holding back recruitment waiting to see the effect?

For me the figure that really counts is inflation. Is business passing on the sharp rise in their import costs due to the slide in the pound or are they waiting for things to settle? At the moment we have to keep interest rates low to stop the economy sliding but rising inflation will force our hand. Again it will be some time before we know the full picture.


Re: Plan Brexit
- H (30th Jul 2016 - 11:58:49)

I would not think that those figures are correct Susan, it is people believing the express and daily mail that has led to people voting out. there maybe always will be low paid fast food part time zero hours contract jobs created with or without leaving the EU. What people have to remember is that an American company like Macdonalds is based abroad, and like Starbucks and Amazon, have their parent companies based in Southern Ireland, so that the profit made in England is massaged away abroad, and little company tax is paid to our economy. How much income tax too does a low paid McDonalds worker pay, once benefits such as income support tax credits housing benefit etc council tax rebate coming into play? a part time casual worker does not earn enough so has to claim benefits.
the biggest chunk of government spending goes on social benefits, next biggest cost is equally the NHS and The State Pension Payments.We need high earning jobs created to pay enough in taxations to benefit our economy and spending.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Claire (30th Jul 2016 - 14:01:38)

The Express lied and lied and lied.

express.co.uk/.../Correction-amazing-things-we-get-back-if-we-leave-EU

Please read / watch / consider other news sources too and make up your own mind instead of taking their words, especially headlines, for truth. We are living in uncertain times, what we need now is news with integrity and respect for intelligence and critical thinking. Something sorely lacking in the bum wipes published by the Express in my opinion.

Regards,

Claire

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (1st Aug 2016 - 13:43:48)

There is a very interesting article in The Daily Telegraph Saturday 30 July by Daniel Hannan, MEP headed:

"Remoaners are determined to find bad new - Brexit scare stories are evaporating like morning dew, but the doomsayers will take some convincing."

Well worth a read - good well balanced article IMO.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (3rd Aug 2016 - 17:10:56)

This afternoons radio news main headline: The UK economy is contracting at its fastest rate since the financial crisis, making an interest rate cut "a foregone conclusion". They left it unexplained, open for listeners to figure it out themselves. The following headline was how the next UKIP figure had resigned.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Ian (3rd Aug 2016 - 19:12:54)

Regrexit! how long are you going to keep this going on?

Moaners and whingers like you are contributing to the continued uncertainty that is damaging the country far more than the actual result. For goodness sake get over it and get a life!

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (4th Aug 2016 - 15:16:28)

Well said Ian. I too am fed up with Regrexit moaning and whingeing - it is not doing any good and I wonder if he/she has found time to read the article I posted about:

ie article in The Daily Telegraph Saturday 30 July by Daniel Hannan, MEP headed:

"Remoaners are determined to find bad news - Brexit scare stories are evaporating like morning dew, but the doomsayers will take some convincing."

We have had recessions in the past if this is what is happening and will have them in the future. I personally don't think we are heading for a recession, but there will be a "settling down" period of uncertainty and we have to ride that out. The crash in 2007 was nothing to do with Brexit but it still happened. There is no point in looking backward - we are as we are and I agree going on and on and on about what may or may not happen as a result of Brexit is doing absolutely no good at all, quite the reverse in fact and we haven't even left the EU yet.

I voted from a sincere feeling which I still have to leave, not because of any vested interest but a gut feeling that we will be better off out of the EU. I have nothing against a trading agreement with them and hope that we will still be able to do this, but I do not want to be told what to do and who we can trade with by the bureaucrats in the EU. They are undemocratic, unelected and unaccountable, they waste money and it wasn't working!!

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (4th Aug 2016 - 18:52:50)

Ignoring "contributes" who try to make this a personal issue against me and not very gracefully:
...And today, BBC main news headline is all about the Brexit recession, I am not the editor, not my prioritising of headlines.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Jen (4th Aug 2016 - 21:06:56)

Susan, since Daniel Hannan was apparently a major player in the Leave campaign, it comes as no surprise that he would now write an article that is pro-Leave.

I have read the article you referred to, which incidentally can be found online here if anyone else wishes to read it:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/29/remoaners-are-determined-to-find-bad-news

If you have 20 minutes or so to spare, read the article and accompanying video from Liverpool University linked below:

news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/07/01/watch-professor-michael-dougan-assesses-uks-position-following-vote-leave-eu


Re: Plan Brexit
- dave (5th Aug 2016 - 08:17:21)

Susan
The country votes to join the EU in a referendum. For the next 30 years the leave camp moan and groan and point out everything bad about it and blame all our ills on it. We have another referendum and the country votes to leave. For the next 30 years the remain camp will moan and groan and point out everything bad about Brexit and blame all our ills on leaving. The battle to rejoin has only just started and will run and run. Get used to it.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (5th Aug 2016 - 14:28:46)

When we joined the EU in 1973 it was to become part of a Trading Agreement and I voted "In" It is wrong to say that from day 1 the people who did not want to join moaned and groaned. Just not true. When being part of the EU morphed into something else much more sinister and invasive that people started to campaign to leave. This quote sums it all up and that is just one part of the corruption and waste in the EU:

It is perhaps the most outlandish of the European Union’s excesses; a £130 million travelling circus that once a month sees the European Parliament decamp from Belgium to France.

Over the course of the weekend, some 2,500 plastic trunks will be loaded on to five lorries and driven almost 300 miles from Brussels to Strasbourg.

On Monday, about 1,000 politicians, officials and translators will then make the same journey on two specially chartered trains hired at taxpayers’ expense.

A few thousand more will go to Strasbourg by other means, as the European Parliament switches from Brussels, its permanent base, to its “official” home in northern France.

For the first time, the full detail of this “madness”, contained in official European documents, can be disclosed today by The Telegraph – and the price to taxpayers is astonishing.

Source material...


There will not be another referendum for years and years if ever so get used to it and stop moaning.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (5th Aug 2016 - 17:39:30)

Every time Brexiters talk about the pro-EU as "moaners" and such names - it makes me want to continue reminding of the regrettable Brexit aftermath.

EU parliament economically corrupt? Perhaps. Is the UK parliament corruption free? remember expenses etc? Do we exit the United Kingdom for that? When something like a parliament doesn't work, it needs fixing from within. Regrettably, UK participation inside the EU had always been poor. By the way, matters not how corrupt the parliament may be, the UK is still financially better off inside the EU.

EU parliament not democratic? We are now run by about a hundred-strong un-elected UK government as a result of Brexit. Can we exit them? No. So which parliament is less democratic? Secondly, inside the EU we had the privilege of appealing national law, thanks to Brexit, we won't. Thank you very much Brexiter so keenly guarding our democracy...

Yes the EU is in a bad state and would benefit from deep reforms. The same goes for the Brexit UK (of which Scotland and London are seeking autonomy). Reforms and perhaps re-branding could save the day by allowing us back in, keeping our regretful face.

Re: Plan Brexit
- dave (5th Aug 2016 - 23:41:45)

Susan
We had to put up with you and your ilk moaning for 30 years, so now its your turn until for the next 30 years or whenever we will have the re-join referendum

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (6th Aug 2016 - 09:43:20)

BBC news today: over 70% increase in UK residents applying for Irish passports last month due to the referendum results.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Ian (6th Aug 2016 - 10:20:47)

"6,638 " Hardly a lot!! and also in same article "But there is some evidence that this has slowed down in more recent weeks"

Selective extraction of articles from the media, not exactly convincing or accurate, on both sides of the debate.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (6th Aug 2016 - 10:28:07)

Dave

I have not spent the last 40 odd years (it is over 40 years since we voted to join the EU not 30) moaning about being in the EU. I don't know about the rest of the "ilk" I cannot answer for them. It has only been in the recent past that I have come to realise that the EU is a failing and corrupt organisation. I have never said that the UK is perfect and free from any corruption but there is a great deal less corruption in our government than many, many other governments.

I don't think that either you or Regrexit read the remainers' posts. If you do, you don't seem to get it. You cannot compare our MP's expenses scandal, regrettable though it was, with £130 million of taxpayers being wasted and continuing to be wasted by the EU on a completely unnecessary procedure - and that is only one example. What about the use of executive jets and exorbitant expense accounts to name but two which make our expenses scandal look like robbing a piggy bank. At least when our MP's expenses scandal broke it was roundly condemned and action was taken. Grow up the pair of you and get your facts straight.

We live in a wonderful country - you two should be proud of that and have the guts to work at making it greater not dumming it down. There will not be another referendum and the reason for this will be because things will get better, much better and then people will forget they ever said they wanted to remain part of the EU. This will become more apparent as time goes by when the EU inevitably falls apart. It is unworkable - FACT.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Jen (6th Aug 2016 - 12:08:13)

Susan,

You say that "things will get better, much better and then people will forget they ever said they wanted to remain part of the EU."

Where does that information come from? Are you an economist? If so, your views run contrary to those of the vast majority of your peers and colleagues.

Or is it just something that you are hoping might happen?

That view is not shared by Mark Carney, for example. He thinks that the UK is on the brink of recession. That's why he cut interest rates by 50% and will be injecting billions of pounds into the economy by QE - and why banks are being offered loans at silly rates. All this is to boost the economy and avert a recession. This is only happening as a result of the Brexit result.

Re: Plan Brexit
- A.R (6th Aug 2016 - 15:58:19)

Oh dear Jen,
What a flippant remark to make to Susan...

" Where does that information come from? Are you an economist? If so, your views run contrary to those of the vast majority of your peers and colleagues."

You of course seem to know, please explain? You know what Susan's , and I hate to say this, peers and colleagues, think and voted?

You seem incredulous to the fact that the majority of the voters voted out. You can not and will not change the outcome, no matter how much whining you do.
I for one do not trust the banks, do you ? Really?
According to a lot of economists the interest rates did not need to be lowered. After all this is all been done because of hearsay and scaremongering, chiefly by Mark Carney. A previous Goldman Sachs employer, Hmm... also a remain supporter.
Unless you are rich I am sure the lowering of the interest rates will be beneficial to many, as we are a nation of borrowers, are we not?
Business's will find it easier, and we have found that for tourism it has been a great help with the lowering of the pound.
Can you all, including Regrexit aka possible Jim, as he has been very quiet, please tell us what has befallen you all since the vote.
What you fear will happen to you. Do you have a business ?
Please give us more enlightening information so we can understand your fears.





Re: Plan Brexit
- Jen (6th Aug 2016 - 19:24:14)

A.R.,

Steady on! I was merely stating that if Susan is an economist, most others of that profession (or, at least, the vociferous ones) think differently. Is that no longer the case? Maybe it isn't. Apologies if I have got that one wrong. I did hear an interview with Mark Carney on the radio a couple of days ago though, and he was definitely saying that without the interventions of the B of E, we would be heading for recession.

For the record, in case anyone was wondering, I am most definitely not an economist myself, far from it! I can't pretend to understand the complexities of economic cycles and the relationship between interest rates, inflation etc and a healthy economy.

That's why I asked the question of Susan; I was wanting to know how she knows that everything is going to be fine and we will all be glad we left the EU. How can she have such certainty. Everything may indeed turn out to be fine, but surely it just as likely may not? Isn't it just wishful thinking to glibly say that all will be well, in the absence of clear evidence that it will? Unless Susan does have evidence, in which case, I would like to know what it is, that was all.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (7th Aug 2016 - 17:16:26)

QE and other economy "stimuli" in response to the Out vote: who pays for them? No points for knowing the answer. Please ad it to the vast Brexit costs already incurring (slowed economy, withdrawn contracts, loss of EU funds, loss of investment confidence, loss of manpower, loss of business etc) and will no doubt keep flooding in. All this before the actual Article 50 and before the actual severance. Bill please?!

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (9th Aug 2016 - 13:55:38)

I have just been invited to a national conference on how to keep the UK's world-class scientists from a Brexit brain-drain. Scientists are running around scratching heads not knowing how to fund the void of science funding Brexit will bring.
Economy, security, lifestyle.... add science and technology to the Brexit concerns list.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (23rd Aug 2016 - 17:47:54)

On the news today:
Analysis published by the Scottish government suggested that by 2030, Scottish GDP was projected to be between £1.7bn and £11.2bn per year lower than it would have been if Brexit does not occur.
Tax revenue was projected to be between £1.7bn and £3.7bn lower.
That stark picture outlined today means that, whatever the model of relationship with the EU which is chosen by the UK government in their negotiations before and after Article 50 is triggered, it will not be as economically beneficial as full EU membership.

Re: Plan Brexit
- A. Ryan (23rd Aug 2016 - 18:51:02)

Oh get a life Regrexit....
You seem to only pick out what you deem as bad news, we could have posted plenty of feel good stories over the last two or three weeks , but hey we are being adult about it, unlike you.
You really should be called Fixated instead of Brexit, I think.

Re: Plan Brexit
- bernard bayly (24th Aug 2016 - 13:47:21)

The Scottish tax base is dictated by the price of oil. Their economy relies on fixed grants/payments from the British Government, which are unlikely to alter.
Neither have been effected by Brexit

Also if the Scots had voted for independence their economy would now be in ruins

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (24th Aug 2016 - 14:13:24)

Hear, hear to the last two posts by A.Ryan and Bernard Bayly. I know everyone is entitled to place posts on this site with their various opinions without fear or favour, but really Regrexit's posts are soooooooooooooo negative. His/her last 3 posts running consecutively are all doom and gloom and she/he doesn't even wait for a response to each post just maunders on. She/he must spend her/his life looking on the black side.

As A. Ryan says there have been plenty of positive,"feel good" stories (and I don't mean Team GB although that is wonderful) that have been in the news. So I echo A.Ryan's sentiment "get a life Regrexit", think positive, move on. We have had the referendum - the majority of the people have spoken. IMO there will not be another referendum in the foreseeable future because:

a) it would cost more money.
b) it would create more uncertainty.
c) you can't have another referendum on the same subject following on the heels of the first one just because some people did not like the answer.
d) we would be the laughing stock of Europe.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Alf Tupper (24th Aug 2016 - 16:39:55)

I wonder if Team GB will be as successful once we leave the EU? Last 3 Olympics as part of EU have been very successful. Come on, let's invoke. Article 50 & get that £375 million a week into the NHS.

Re: Plan Brexit
- James (24th Aug 2016 - 23:04:38)

When you lose a referendum or for that matter a general election is does not mean you’re (no longer entitled to continue making your point), that’s what we all know as a democracy.

The people on this forum pushing forward the "Get a life Regrexit views" are actually simpletons whom believe that they can tamper down the democratic view of others by belittlement and bullying, they have let go of the values of democracy and think they can pub talk valid views out of the subject.

Example:
When party A wins the general election, party B does not just go “Oh we lost, and party A were right so we will just sit in the house of commons and say absolutely NOTHING for 4 years”

Yes, leaving the EU was democratic, and YES the views of the people some of you coin “Regrexit” are also still democratically valid and always will be.
If you’re the sort of person posting the “Get over it, it’s done” or “get a life” then clearly you need to downgrade yourself from a local political discussion to perhaps a post about crayons or litter as your posts are showing your mental ability up for all to see. How about contributing something with political intelligence that wasn’t feed to you by media? how about not punching your keyboard just because your “team” won or lost?

This isn’t a game and most of us are terribly informed.

Re: Plan Brexit
- dave (24th Aug 2016 - 23:53:10)

For goodness sake Alf Tupper, the £375 million a week into the NHS was just propaganda. There is no £375 million a week.

Re: Plan Brexit
- H (25th Aug 2016 - 08:22:53)

Nigel Farage is in America having praise heaped upon him by Donald Trump for leading the BREXIT campaign. Perhaps he will formulate a plan for our future while he is over there, he did not seem to have a plan for our future except to leave the EU. The financial consequences will take some time to fully take effect but they are happening, and we have absolutely no plans to deal with them.

Re: Plan Brexit
- liz (25th Aug 2016 - 08:51:25)

I think Susan sums up well the whole Brexit approach. - Be optimistic, think positively, put on a smiley face and avoid the facts because they are nasty bad news.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Giles Gray (25th Aug 2016 - 09:11:42)

James.

Are you not also inhibiting the posters who are telling regrexit to 'get a life' by berating them for doing so?

Are you not also as guilty now of what you are accusing them of? And subsequently I am now guilty of it too. It's what humans do, democratic or not.

Your example of general elections is slightly flawed. As you correctly say, the opposition doesn't remain quiet in the subsequent 4 years after an election. The reason is they have another chance after that time has expired. With Brexit, there is no second vote. It is done. We are going to leave the EU and that is what the majority of voters opted for.

What good is going on about the ramifications of Brexit going to do, even if it was an unwise choice? It's not going to change the decision now.

It's been two months since the referendum took place. The fact that Regrexit hasn't stopped going on about it indicates an obsessive neurotic disposition. Even politicians have given up with it to a large extent. If there was anything to gain from going on about it they would be the first to exploit it.

Regrexit's posts are persistently negative and such an unbalanced perspective is naturally going to irritate people. Isn't it their democratic right to express such an irritation? To label such people as 'simpletons' is equally as belittling and as bullying as your accusations against them, if not more so.

Re: Plan Brexit
- tony (25th Aug 2016 - 10:16:07)

Sorry James and the obsessive Regrexit who regrets the exit by Brexit but an election is very much a win or lose event. You lost, Giles has summed it up pretty well.

Perpetually moaning and demanding we do it again until you win is very childish and won't help anyone!
We voted to stop being run by European spoilt children and put Britain first.

You believing that people didn't know what they were thinking is insulting and part of the bigger problem, in fact a lot of people voted out because they were sick of being patronised and insulted in that very way and if we'd voted to remain you'd be saying exactly the same thing about us if we kept on moaning about it, but probably throwing in a lot more insults, the old illogical racist, xenophobic slurs because we really aren't allowed a political opinion other than yours are we?

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (25th Aug 2016 - 12:11:17)

Thank you all for the professional medical diagnosis etc. For those of you so concerned with my own life and views:
It is possible to keep pointing at a major mistake such as Brexit whilst still leading a healthy happy life outside of it, regrettably not all can comprehend such mental complexities.
The Eurosceptics never stopped nagging when we were (still are) inside the EU. No reason to expect the pro-EU NOT to go on about this regretful Brexit affair. Still not calling for another referendum just yet- who knows, a few decades down the line reason may prevail after all.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Ian (25th Aug 2016 - 13:13:35)

Oh Regrexit, this has become so BORING, do you really think your selective observations are really going to change anyone's views. You are obsessed and really are not helping the remain argument.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (25th Aug 2016 - 15:01:23)

I assume Liz was being sarcastic in her post when she says: “I think Susan sums up well the whole Brexit approach. - Be optimistic, think positively, put on a smiley face and avoid the facts because they are nasty bad news.” If she wasn’t I apologise unreservedly. Actually that is exactly what we did in the Second World War – we were positive, we did put on brave faces – we got on with it and we won and if anyone says we wouldn’t have won without American intervention I would say this. Firstly this would be supposition not fact as no one knows and secondly such a remark would insult the British people in general for their stoicism and bravery and in particular all those young men fought in, and many, many died, The Battle of Britain.
It is very obvious from reading some of the “Remainers’” posts that they are not sure of their facts – they only read and take notice of the bad news – and because they know their views are based on weak and largely unsubstantiated figures – they resort to insulting some of the “Leavers”.
ie section of James’ post and this is just one of the “remainers’s” posts insulting the intelligence of the “leavers.”
“If you’re the sort of person posting the “Get over it, it’s done” or “get a life” then clearly you need to downgrade yourself from a local political discussion to perhaps a post about crayons or litter as your posts are showing your mental ability up for all to see. How about contributing something with political intelligence that wasn’t feed to you by media? how about not punching your keyboard just because your “team” won or lost?”
It may be that he does not like the advice to “get a life” or “get over it, it’s done”, but that is good advice and one many of the “remainers” should follow.
We haven’t even left the EU yet. No one knows what is going to happen or on what terms we are going to leave. What is causing the bad news is people pre-empting what is going to happen negatively – they don’t know – no one does.
I will leave you with one article that I have posted before but Regrexit and other “remainers” have sought to ignore because they cannot justify it. It is this and many, many other unjust and undemocratic decisions that have caused myself and the majority of people in the UK over the years since we first joined the EU, to realise what a bad deal we were getting and how much better off Great Britain would be out of it. This didn’t happen overnight – it has been over 40 years and it DID NOT start on Day 1. This time from Day 1 after this second referendum the “remainers” have started their relentless barrage of negative criticism. Give Theresa May a chance. Give the people of the UK a chance. You might be pleasantly surprised.
QUOTE
“It is perhaps the most outlandish of the European Union’s excesses; a £130 million travelling circus that once a month sees the European Parliament decamp from Belgium to France.
Over the course of the weekend, some 2,500 plastic trunks will be loaded on to five lorries and driven almost 300 miles from Brussels to Strasbourg.
On Monday, about 1,000 politicians, officials and translators will then make the same journey on two specially chartered trains hired at taxpayers’ expense.
A few thousand more will go to Strasbourg by other means, as the European Parliament switches from Brussels, its permanent base, to its “official” home in northern France.
For the first time, the full detail of this “madness”, contained in official European documents, can be disclosed today by The Telegraph – and the price to taxpayers is astonishing.”

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (25th Aug 2016 - 16:31:41)

As for the validity of Brexit information and facts:
The majority of qualified experts advised against Brexit before and after the referendum. Climate change was agreed upon amongst the majority of scientists quite a while back. However public and business views were sceptically lagging behind. The politicians followed the public, no surprise there. Gradually the bad news have skunk in with the public, the politicians followed suit later. It took time for the public to realise the experts were right from the start. Distinguishing facts from fiction takes time, I'm sure we can agree on that.

As for ignoring the negative and focus on "feel-good" sweeteners:
Pro EU see Brexit as a tragedy. The Italian earthquake is also sen as tragic. Most people now hurt and grieve the damage. Should we focus on the pretty surrounding Italian countryside and ignore the earthquake disaster, muffle our sorrows? It is human and legitimate to express regret in the face of what we see as tragic. The Brexit vote is still raw, once it is no longer raw we will see how wrong it was.

As for my postings:
They are never meant to be offensive nor boring - should anybody find them offensive / boring - I suggest skipping, not reading my postings at all.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (25th Aug 2016 - 17:32:08)

Regrexit It depends what you mean by qualified experts. No one is qualified to predict the future because it is unpredictable. As was once said the only certain things in life are death and taxes.
In your opinion the experts were right but not in mine. We have not left the EU yet. Negotiations to leave have not even started so I defy anyone to predict accurately what is going to happen in the future. People can voice opinions based on what they interpret as the facts but NO ONE KNOWS.
In your second para you refer to the terrible earthquake disaster in Italy. I find your comparison to my comparison ergo The Second World War, tasteless and irrelevant. Of course what has happened in Italy is tragic and in no way should the human suffering be ignored – that is not what I meant and I am sure most people know that. To be positive is the only way to move forward and it never diminishes the suffering. The strength of the human spirit prevails in all disasters but it never negates the suffering.
Please remember it is your opinion that the Brexit vote was tragic. IMO and the majority of the people who voted it was not and all I was trying to do in my post is lift spirits and ask everyone at least to give Theresa May and the other negotiators a chance.
As always Regrexit you ignore the final section of my post which refers to the £130 million wasted on moving the whole bundle of the EU bureaucrats from Belgium to France once a month. A completely pointless exercise and only done to appease the French. I would be very interested to hear how you and other remainers can justify that.

Re: Plan Brexit
- A.R (25th Aug 2016 - 17:47:58)

Dear dear James, that must be one of the most sardonic posts I have had the misfortune to read.
The condescending tone appears to show a streak of bullying from you, when you have strived to point out the so called bullying remarks from the Brexitiers .
No there is nothing wrong with healthy debate, but this incessant wallowing in the mire seems a tad unhealthy, bordering on the obsessive.
Not one of you has really given a solid reason for your disappointment. What really do you think will befall us? Do you not see anything beneficial in the decision?
Can you not just except the outcome and contribute to the success of our country, or are you determined to to undermine any good news with the hope it wont work out.
It would be nice to know who you and Regrexit were and why you have such animosity towards those who voted out.
Yes we live in a democracy, and we have spoken, and no we were not hoodwinked, so please stop these posts belittling those who voted out. We do not belittle you for voting to stay, we are just finding the constant negativity somewhat irksome.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Giles Gray (25th Aug 2016 - 18:12:02)

Regrexit-" Most people now hurt and grieve the damage. Should we focus on the pretty surrounding Italian countryside and ignore the earthquake disaster, muffle our sorrows?"

Yes!

In a month or two people will be looking at the positives that came out of such a disaster. When the rebuilding happens people will marvel at the beauty of a sweet Italian town. They will get over it.

How useful would your attitude be in those circumstances? If you were there now harping on about the negativity of the situation do you think it would help matters? Do you think people would rather you keep your thoughts to yourself?

Some of us are glad that the majority of voters opted out of the EU. It might cost us, a point you have made perfectly clear. If that is the cost to make a stand against EU bureaucracy then there are many of us that are happy to pay the price.

We feel it would have been a disaster to have stayed in and sell our democracy down the river.

I'm sure it would have been a lot cheaper not to have gone to war in WW2. That cost the country millions and was worth the price for freedom. For many of us, voting out of the EU was for the same principal.









Re: Plan Brexit
- Alf Tupper (25th Aug 2016 - 18:56:45)

Sorry Dave, I was trying to be ironic, seems I fell into the Alannis Morrissete definition of ironic rather than the real thing . Farage supporting Trump. Seems Nige has a good a grasp of US politics as he has of EU politics. Sorry Dave, think I've gone all Alannis Morrissete again.

Re: Plan Brexit
- H (25th Aug 2016 - 23:02:09)

I agree there is no point on thinking we can change the descision, which was not made by the majority of all people, only by a small majority of those who voted, but some of those people who voted out do now think it the wrong desicion and none of those politicians who encouraged it had a clear plan for our future, and think globally not introspectively, harking back to when we were a respected major player on the world stage, we are not now, we manufacture nothing ourselves of any real financial consequence to sell except perhaps armaments with which to kill others.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Mary W (26th Aug 2016 - 00:15:34)

Having trawled through the whole of these posts, I must say, one of the few who make real sense is Susan. What an intelligent argument, I commend you.

Pity you can't stand for Parliament, you'd get my vote any day.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (29th Aug 2016 - 19:59:51)

Good luck on our Brexit adventure, who knows it may just be ok.
In the meantime, recently on the news:
The French are about to stop buffering illegal immigration for Brexit England. The Germans say 'no-way' to Brexit England proposals.
As the rest of us, I want the best for England, but having gone down (almost committed to) the Brexit route, it will make an interesting ride!

Re: Plan Brexit
- regrexit (30th Aug 2016 - 08:45:50)

It's a beautiful morning, the sun is shining and I've had such a relaxing bank holiday. It's days like today that help me appreciate the fact I live in such a beautiful village as Liphook.

Positive thinking is really helping me feel good about myself and about the world around me. Makes such a difference in one's outlook on life.

It's nice to feel confident that no matter what happens, I know everything will be alright.

Have a wonderful day Liphook.

Re: Plan Brexit
- regrexit (30th Aug 2016 - 14:46:55)

Wonderful news. The Bank of England has said there is "no evidence" of a sharp economic slowdown, which has caused the pound to gain in stength.

Prime Minister Theresa May has heralded the good news of "positive job figures" showing unemployment falling with record numbers in employment.

It seems the doom and gloom over Brexit may have been premature.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (30th Aug 2016 - 16:12:53)

Great news indeed lower case regrexit, care to share with us where and when the information is from?
Excitedly I have looked at BOE own News release website, BBC news and other major radio news. Sadly I have found no trace to any such information...

Even if BOE view on Brexit had now changed, £billions have already been flushed down the drains on preemptive efforts to ease and prepare for Brexit damage.

Re: Plan Brexit
- regrexit (31st Aug 2016 - 07:57:25)

More good news. The IMF have climbed down on their prediction of a UK recession. In fact, they have forcast that UK growth will be 1.3 per cent in 2017, the fastest in Europe and ahead of both France and Germany.

Cabinet minister John Redwood was delighted with the news as the IMF now agree that the UK will "grow faster than France or Germany or Italy next year".

He went onto say that he thought business people are just starting to realise how constricted they were by all the tariffs and rules imposed by the EU.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Grrexit (31st Aug 2016 - 10:47:03)

Whilst Regrexit and regrexit continues to do battle with itself over the latest statistics, I'm just wondering when all the people who we've been told don't have a clue what they voted for are going to finally admit they are clueless and don't know what they're voting for and start demanding another vote so they can vote us back in again. The sooner the better, you know it makes sense.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (31st Aug 2016 - 13:52:03)

OK lower-case regrexit, got ya!

I'd advise anybody who wishes to stick to the truth to check lower-case regrexit's sources for the weird and wonderful optimistic "news items".


Irony:
The quitter campaign who wanted sovereign control over the UK borders are now facing reality as do the rest of us. The UK had enjoyed a pre-paid border control service by the EU mainland. In Brexit reality this service will be withdrawn. The UK would now have to toe the bill £billions for processing and indefinitely ACCOMMODATING untold number of illegal economic migrants.
The critical global media would be only too happy to constantly scrutinise UK immigration practice whenever UK immigration interests are applied. In other words: No way the UK can do as they wish to protect the borders and this illegal immigration issue alone will cost us £billions - far exceeding the EU membership costs that had benefited us in so many additional issues.

Re: Plan Brexit
- dave (31st Aug 2016 - 22:10:22)

Grrext, don't worry, the demographics are on your side. The younger generation were largely remainers while the older generation were leavers. Just wait a few decades and the leavers will all die off, there will be another referendum and we will be back in.

Re: Plan Brexit
- regrexit (1st Sep 2016 - 07:58:01)

Voting against the short-sighted 'Remain Campaign' may have been the UKs best option, and the decision to leave the EU might prove to be perfectly timed.

The economy of the Eurozone is growing at half the speed of the British economy right now.

The UK's national output enjoyed an increase of 0.6 per cent between April and June, whereas the single currency bloc only grew by 0.3 per cent.

Being tied to such a 'stagnant' economy is "like being handcuffed to a corpse" claims MP Jacob Rees-Mogg. This 'stagnation' doesn't seem to be letting up any time soon.

Mr Rees-Mogg said "The Eurozone is showing no sign of returning to prosperity after years of stagnation and the rest of the world is growing so we need to re-focus our efforts elsewhere.”

It has also emerged that 27 countries around the world are seeking a deal with Britain after it exits the EU. Some of these countries include China, America and Germany as well as emerging nations like Brazil and Mexico.

So it seems the money spent on the preparation for Brexit may have been a very wise, long term investment.

Thank goodness yesterday Theresa May confirm that there would be no second referendum and pledged to make Brexit work for all of the people in Britain.

Re: Plan Brexit
- dave (1st Sep 2016 - 12:19:22)

There will be a third (1st was to join, 2nd was to leave) referendum to re-join when all the old leavers have died. It's simple demographics. Just wait a few years and mark my words. In the meantime everything bad will be blamed on Brexit just as everything bad was blamed on EU between first two referendums. It's just the cycle of politics.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Grrexit (1st Sep 2016 - 12:35:37)

Yes dave, but the young will take on responsibility and start to see reality through more mature eyes.

It's OK to be carefree and careless when young and you've not experienced life or planned for tomorrow or got a job or a mortgage or a family. The elders responsibility is to make tough perhaps unfashionable choices to protect the young from themselves whilst allowing them space to grow up, always has been, a shame too many grown ups no longer want to take on the protector role and rather try to act cool with the kids the whole time, they've completely taken their eye off the ball. They left the doors and windows open at night and went out partying like teenagers, it was embarrassing what was becoming of this country, we couldn't even guard our borders, plan our own economy, we'd completely lost the plot.

Hopefully Brexit was a wake up call to everyone, there is hard work to be done, stop moaning guys, get out of your glad rags for a minute, roll up your sleeves and help.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Ian (1st Sep 2016 - 13:30:22)

I think the older generations (over 70's) were particularly selfish over the EU referendum with many voting to leave because of racial predujice rather than economic argument. Particularly frustrating as they will not be around to endure the consequences of their decisions.

Re: Plan Brexit
- dave (1st Sep 2016 - 13:34:11)

Grrexit: To dismiss the opinions of the younger half of population (ie 44 or less who largely voted remain) as "carefree and careless" is insulting and offensive.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Grrexit (1st Sep 2016 - 14:37:29)

dave, If you check again you'll see I didn't dismiss anyone's vote, I just explained that it's a normal fact of life that the young should be able to be more carefree with less cares and less responsibility, the elders are usually a bit more conservative (small 'c'), looking after business. Young grow up and become elders and so it continues.

All perfectly OK with me.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Dave Lambert (1st Sep 2016 - 14:48:23)

Hi - Ian,

I am over seventy and don't take kindly to your outrageous comments. I have worked for over sixty years and have never once claimed the dole or any other benefit other than sick pay when I had replacement hips and knee which I think I was entitled too.

Since we joined the then common market it has done nothing at all to help me and my family. What have I have worked for.

Let the next generation do the same and stop moaning and in a short period of time you will see that it was the correct decision.

This thread has gone on far to long if the out voters had lost then we would have rolled up our sleeves and got on with it and not keep on moaning if you have second crack at it and lose again do we the have third and forth until you get what you want.

And by the way why don't you let us know who you are and not just - Ian have the balls to put your money where your mouth is.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (1st Sep 2016 - 15:18:27)

Here we go again, people want to know posters' real names as if that would somehow advance this argument...
I am wearing no sleeves, I am not moaning, I wish us the best in Brexit reality, I am not calling for another referendum yet - but I am aware and I do regret the decision taken. I will echo relevant news items as they continue to come.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Dave Lambert (1st Sep 2016 - 16:29:35)

Hi - Regrexit.
Just to say I hope when you realise that leaving the EU was a great decision you will come back and tell us all. But I very much doubt it.
I think that if you had to put your name to any thread on this site then people might yes MIGHT speak some sense plus we would all know who is making the stupid and bias comments. It is easy to shout from the roof tops when we don't know who is doing the shouting. I am not a saint but I was brought up to be honest and straight with my fellow man hiding behind a cloak is not the way.
END OF....
I have had my rant lets move on.

Re: Plan Brexit
- regrexit (1st Sep 2016 - 16:57:09)

Dave Lambert-" ...I hope when you realise that leaving the EU was a great decision you will come back and tell us all.."

Hey....!!! What do you think I'm doing??

There's plenty of good news out there, if you only look for it. In fact, there was some great news that came out today.

So all is good.

Will keep you posted.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (1st Sep 2016 - 16:57:56)

I agree with Dave Lambert. Ian’s comments were outrageous and IMO not only inaccurate but very insulting. Racial prejudice is unacceptable and it is no more prevalent among the old than it is among the middle aged and young. The flames of prejudice are fanned by fear and unfortunately if people are afraid and feel threatened they often react violently and unintelligently.

With regard to voting in the referendum I can only speak for myself (and I fall into the older category). I voted because I sincerely believe and still believe that leaving the EU was best for the UK. I fully support immigration. To give one example the National Health now would have difficulty in operating but for immigration. However the stage has now been reached when immigration must be controlled. We are a Sovereign country and must have the right to say who comes to live and work here. Unfettered immigration from the EU is detrimental for immigration as a whole. For example highly qualified people from say Australia, Canada, China and India to name but a few countries are often refused entry into the UK because of the huge numbers of people entering the UK from EU countries. When we joined the EU in 1973 it was the free movement of LABOUR not people.

To Regrexit I would say anyone can “cherry pick” the relevant news items and I am going to do just that:
'Marked recovery'

“Markit said the month-on-month increase in the PMI level was the joint largest in the survey's 25-year history.
"The August PMI data indicate a solid rebound in the performance of the UK manufacturing sector from the steep downturn that followed the EU referendum," said Rob Dobson, senior economist at IHS Markit.
"The domestic market showed a marked recovery, especially for consumer products, while the recent depreciation of sterling drove higher inflows of new business from the US, Europe, Scandinavia, Middle East and Asia," he added.”

However, if it keeps you happy Regrexit, it is a free country and of course you are free to exercise your democratic right and continue to keep us up to date with your “cherry picked” news items. Unlike Regrexit I fully admit I have just “cherry picked” these paragraphs. At the moment sound bites like this do not mean anything at all in the long term. I am still firmly of the belief that NO ONE knows exactly what is going to happen, but I do have faith in the British people and the sooner we all pull together and stop being negative, the better for everyone.

Re: Plan Brexit
- A. Ryan (1st Sep 2016 - 17:48:38)

Just to add to Susan's well written post :-
Regrexit, please let us know the reasons why you voted out in the first place and why now you regret it.
It would possibly help us understand you angst.
Something must have happened to change your mind, as your last posting says..
"I wish us the best in Brexit reality, I am not calling for another referendum yet - but I am aware and I do regret the decision taken."
This was copied and pasted, so are the words of Regrexit.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (2nd Sep 2016 - 20:08:21)

Susan,
I generally don't address individual contributors on here. The reason I address you now is because I too think that you are the most sensible and civil of the Leavers campaign contributors on here so far.

Immigration:
The UK, like any other country, would benefit from good immigration (legal, productive, compatible) and must protect itself from bad immigration (illegal, economic burden, incompatible with our society). EU immigration ticks more of the good boxes. Brexit would mean the UK - or what is left of it, stand alone face to face with untold deluge of the bad immigration on our shores. Accepting a single unfortunate victim of trafficking would attract endless more triers, forever fueling the humanitarian crisis vicious cycle. EU support and cooperation on bad immigration post-Brexit is to be withdrawn.

"Cherry picking":
I never said I will be the voice of balance reportage on here. My contributions are relevant and of good provenance - I do edit them BUT without distorting them. Incidentally, I think we have read the same Markit article yesterday, and boy I do see how you have cherry picked out of it. Ironically, cherry-picking is what British Eurosceptics have been doing, and still are trying to do in our UK-EU relations, Brexit negotiations.

'nobody knows the future':
Of course the future is a mystery. Humans can only predict and forecast. Some of us would rely on expert professional consensus of inform predictions, the rest would go with their whimsical gut feeling.

I bless your contributions here and I'm delighted you are here to counterbalance mine, as long as we keep it civil and relevant...

Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (3rd Sep 2016 - 11:22:03)

Regrexit

Thank you for your kind words.
However I still cannot agree that by remaining part the EU we would solve the immigration issue which while not at the top of my list was at the top of many who voted to leave.

Germany alone took in over one million immigrants, a mixture I am sure of asylum seekers and economic migrants. Those migrants who may well wish to stay will eventually apply for and probably receive citizenship. When that happens, had we remained in the EU under the Free Movement of People and the “Open Door” policy of the EU, we would have had to accept any who then choose to come and live in the UK. We would have had no say at all. That is the problem.

The remainers have pointed out that the French have been threatening to withdraw from the Anglo-French Le Touquet treaty that allows such “juxtaposed” border controls in each other’s country. The truth of the matter is that the bilateral deal suits France as well. It receives money, assistance with security and intelligence co-operation from Britain and if the Treaty went or if Britain were to set up a local asylum processing centre news that it had become easier to cross the Channel would quickly spread, triggering a potential huge in rush of migrants that would expand, not shrink, the camps around Calais. In addition concerns about the Jungle are growing and there are now discussions in France as to the best way of closing down the Jungle.

Regrexit you agree that the future is a mystery but it is your statement and I quote “Humans can only predict and forecast. Some of us would rely on expert professional consensus of inform predictions, the rest would go with their whimsical gut feeling” with which I disagree. The world is still feeling reverberations from the financial crisis of 2008, foreseen by neither politicians nor economists. Expert professional predictions are very often completely wrong. I admit I did go with my “gut” feeling along with all the other reasons I have put in previous posts. However there was nothing whimsical about it.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (4th Sep 2016 - 14:05:54)

Weekend news.

[BBC TV]The Russians said Brexit weakens the EU and weakens the UK from the Russian perspective.

G20 news.
[MSN news]
Both Japan and the US have given bad vibes to Brexit May.
May said Brexit will be painful and cost UK tax payers more money and further austerity.
The American said they will 'still' maintain a "special" relationship, but note they say that to every nation on Earth! They also said that new trade with the UK is NOT American priority.
May thus said she will look elsewhere for trade.

Comment: Note that any trade agreement (EU isn't unusual) with any block or nation which would bring carrot will also bring stick. We have come to know and thrive with the EU stick, we will learn about future sticks elsewhere -see how it goes...
In short, we are paying dearly for a goal of NO known net benefit...

And this is only in terms of global economic trade. The EU had provided us with less quantifiable services such as investment, grants, flow of talent/skills, prosperity of the London City rippling effect,caring for our expats, much coveted neighbourhood peace, right to appeal UK rulings in the EU courts, buffering bad immigration, caring for our environment and agriculture, enriching our culture, , expanding our horizons, global leverage and more. We have taken those for granted on our peril.

Re: Plan Brexit
- Bored (4th Sep 2016 - 15:20:28)

Really regrexit, you really do need to get out more. DULL DULL DULL

Re: Plan Brexit
- regrexit (5th Sep 2016 - 12:34:48)

In the news:-

Economists who predicted an immediate and dramatic fall in the economy are now realising their predictions were not accurate. The figures just released show no slow down in consumer spending on the High Street. In fact August saw a record rise according to one survey.

And even though oil prices have risen slightly, the rise has not been attributed to the vote to leave.

It goes to show that negative predictions don't necessarily come true, even when they are made by the experts, and that is why it is good to remain optimistic, now that we have voted to leave the EU.


Re: Plan Brexit
- Regrexit (5th Sep 2016 - 14:07:27)

Many on the Brexit campaign blame negative mood and damming predictions on slowing the economy down. We have had plenty of them.
Had the economy slowed down? Have they slowed down the economy? If not then the Brexit first assertion (above) was incorrect. If yes then regrexit's recent "news" [5th Sep 2016 12:34:48] are incorrect....

On the real news today:
There are too many Brexit concerns items on the BBC news today (economy, no road-map, hate crimes, environment and more) even for me to report... The latest was May's ruling out the Points Based immigration plan.

Oh dear, promises promises. Earlier we realised the cheating on NHS money, then the misleading leaders have all but disappeared, then we have come to realise that Brexit immigration control could mean Calais jungles on UK soil, now we learn that the brilliance of the Points Based system had lost its luster... What ever next? A very poignant question these days on this Plan Brexit topic chat. What is our plan for Brexit now?

Re: Plan Brexit
- Ian (5th Sep 2016 - 17:03:24)

BBC News Website today

"Recession fears 'fade' as UK's service sector grows"

"Brexit sparks overseas spending spree in London property"

"Brexit: Japan warns firms may move European HQ out of Britain"

BBC News Yesterday

"Brexit may bring difficult times, says Theresa May"

This thread has become pointless, just feeding both positive and negative speculation, the only certainty ahead is uncertainty and both Regrexit and regrexits continued selective reporting is totally absurd.

Re: Plan Brexit
- regrexit (5th Sep 2016 - 17:06:09)

Also in the real 'real' news today:

Recession fears fade as Markit index show that UK services increased by its biggest month-by-month increase since its surveys began.

The increase takes the UK back to the level it was before the referendum Markit said.

This is in addition to the recovery of manufacturing and the constuction industry.

The positive news has caused a jump in Sterling and has wiped out the fall in July following the vote on Brexit.

The artical goes onto say: "The services PMI completes a triple-whammy of good economic data for the UK in the last three trading sessions and indicates that businesses are returning to normal."

In other news:

Theresa May has said that an immigration 'points' system would not work for the UK.

Even though a 'points' system works for Australia, Mrs May said that such a 'points' system would not be selective enough for the majority of the British voters.

Rather she suggests the UK use a case by case selection process to ensure that the UK only lets in the people who will be useful to the country's economy.



Re: Plan Brexit
- Susan (5th Sep 2016 - 17:11:21)

I have just read exactly what Theresa May has said about immigration and suggest everyone who is interested do the same. She is rejecting the points system because she says it does not work and anyone qualifying would be able to enter the UK. She said and I agree with her that this would not control immigration. We still would not have a say as to who does and who does not enter the UK. She confirms that Brexit means we take back control of immigration and that is what she is working towards. Give the poor woman a chance.

With regard to the NHS and the amount of money that will be channelled into it when we leave the EU. We haven’t left yet and to my knowledge are still paying £35 million a day into the EU coffers. I know it is difficult but we are going to have to be steadfast and patient.

With regard to the Jungle I feel strongly that France has to get its act together and disband the Jungle and if they have to bring in the Armed Forces to do the job, so be it. This needs to be done asap before someone is killed and a repatriation centre set up far away from the port where migrants can be properly assessed. I dismiss the idea that we will have a Jungle on our shores as ridiculous as it is very, very unlikely that the Anglo-French Le Touquet Treaty will be withdrawn for the reasons I have given in a previous post. In the very, very unlikely event of the Anglo-French Le Touquet Treaty being withdrawn I am sure the powers that be would take action stop anything like that happening on British soil even if it meant deploying the Armed Forces to do it. However to real villains of the piece are the People Traffickers and until they are rounded up and put in prison I am very much afraid more and more migrants will make their perilous journeys.

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