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Brexit - Simon A (26th Jun 2016 - 21:37:49) Now we know the devastating consequences of the Brexit vote, our last chance is a second referendum where perhaps sense will prevail. Please could everyone sign the petition petition.parliament.uk/petitions/... Thanks

Re: Brexit - Gutted (26th Jun 2016 - 22:30:16) Talk back don't same to allow links anymore. “What’s the EU ever done for us?” Zak Kelly, 21, asks me this standing next to a brand new complex of buildings and facilities that wouldn’t look out of place in Canary Wharf. It’s not Canary Wharf, though, it’s Ebbw Vale, a former steel town of 18,000 people in the heart of the Welsh valleys, where 62% of the population – the highest proportion in Wales – voted Leave. View from Hampstead: cosmopolitan enclave feels insulated from Brexit turmoil To go there – along a new dual carriageway – and stand next to the town’s new sixth form and training college, a glass and steel architectural showpiece next to its new leisure centre, a few hundred yards away from a new train station, is to stare into the abyss of the UK’s failed Remain campaign. Even Kelly, who has just finished a training session on a brand new football pitch, backtracks slightly after asking that question. “Well, I know … they built all this,” he says, and motions his head at the impressive facilities that are all around us. “But we put in more money than we get out, don’t we?” We’re standing on the site of the old steelworks, a toxic industrial wasteland left rotting when the plant, once the biggest in Europe, finally closed in 2002. It’s now “The Works” – a flagship £350m regeneration project funded by the EU redevelopment fund and home to the £33.5m Coleg Gwent, where some of the 29,000 Welsh apprenticeships the European Social Fund pays for help young people learn a trade. Add in a new £30m railway line and £80m improvement to the Heads of the Valley road from other pots of EU money, and the town centre has just received £12.2m for various upgrades and improvements. Ebbw Vale, left devastated when the steelworks closed, has had more European money poured into it than perhaps any other small town in Britain. But according to the figures Kelly heard, “we get out £7m a year from the EU and we put in £19m”. Anyway, he says, “it was time for a change”. And change is now coming. But what it will mean for an area dependent on inward investment and with the highest unemployment in Wales – nearly 40% of people are either unemployed or not available for work – has yet to be seen. In the local fish and chip shop, Deborah Basini says that she voted Remain. “All my family did. I’m very worried about what’s going to happen to inward investment. I’m 60 – this isn’t going to affect me. It’ll be my grandchildren who are not yet born.” Her customers, however, thought differently. “There was only one word people had on their mind: immigration. They didn’t look at the facts at all.” Are there any immigrants in Ebbw Vale? “No! Hardly any. And the ones there are are all working, all contributing. It’s just … illogical. I just don’t think people looked at the facts at all.” It’s a town with almost no immigrants that voted to get the immigrants out. A town that has been showered with EU cash that no longer wants to be part of the EU. A town that holds some of the clues, perhaps, in understanding quite how spectacularly the Remain message failed to land. There’s a sense of injustice that is far greater than the sum of the facts, and the political landscape has fractured and split. Zak Kelly says that many of his friends, in what is Nye Bevan’s old constituency, voted Ukip. Wales isn’t just a net EU beneficiary, EU capital funding has been an essential part of attracting firms to come here. All around town are signs marked with the EU flag for the Ebbw Vale enterprise zone. The website notes that as an EU tier 1 area, “companies can benefit from the highest level of grant aid in the UK”. Earlier this year the sports car company TVR announced it would build a factory and create 150 jobs there. Will it still come? Will the Circuit of Wales, a multimillion-pound motor racing circuit a private company has been proposing to build on the town’s outskirts creating 6,000 jobs? Will the £1.8bn of EU cash promised to Wales for projects until 2020 still arrive? And what happens after? Will central government really give more money to Ebbw Vale than the EU has? Even Kelly looks like he could be doubtful on this point. “David Cameron got a good kicking,” he says. So, what about Boris Johnson? Do you want him? “No way. He’s London through and through. He’ll just forget about Wales.” Or as Michael Sheen, the Welsh-born actor from Port Talbot, tweeted: “Wales votes to trust a new and more rightwing Tory leadership to invest as much money into its poorer areas as EU has been doing.” “It is what it is,” says Kelly. “We’ll see, won’t we?”

Re: Brexit - dave (26th Jun 2016 - 23:20:10) it maybe that you are all sore losers the best thing the uk has done we have all had are vote and thats it LIVE WITH IT DONT KEEP GOING ON ABOUT IT SORE LOSERS UK IS FREE

Re: Brexit - The Joy (27th Jun 2016 - 06:49:47) They have a Petition: TO REBUILD THE TITANIC AND LET IT HAVE A 2ND CHANCE OF SAILING TO AMERICA!!! Quick Sign Up

Re: Brexit - liz (27th Jun 2016 - 08:01:42) It worries me that Dave seems to regard the issue as some sort of 'game' that he has 'won'.

Re: Brexit - Ian (27th Jun 2016 - 08:06:54) All through the campaign "leave" supporters kept crying unfair and now they keep responding to "remain" reaction as sore losers. So infantile!

Re: Brexit - Jen (27th Jun 2016 - 08:16:26) Can any Leave voters explain what's to be gained from the uk leaving the EU?

Re: Brexit - Sarah (27th Jun 2016 - 09:50:28) To Dave and The Joy If you voted to leave, could you and all other leave-voters please tell us what your plan is now? What is the grand plan of all you leave voters and which amazing and strong and serious politician do you see leading us to this 'promised land' you all seem to envision. Please, tell us what your plan is. You surely can't have voted leave without one. That would just be idiotic wouldn't it?

Re: Brexit - Steve Wilson (27th Jun 2016 - 10:07:42) Leave won so get over it and help making this country great again!!!! What is done is done.

Re: Brexit - tony (27th Jun 2016 - 10:26:53) Steve Wilson is right. Jen, just to recap for those who still don't get it, what the majority of UK citizens who voted to leave got, was their voices heard for the first time. You may not have wanted to hear them, they may not have been LISTENED to, but for once they were heard. You cannot underestimate how important that is. Sarah, the voters are not the politicians, ask questions to the right people please and don't barrack. Socialists of all guises love to make out they are the only 'nice' people. Well I think this election has blown that chestnut out of the water. They are now wailing and doing whatever they can to ensure their failed minority vote is declared the winner, bad losers, trying to retrospectively change the referendum criteria, can we expect to see violent disorder in Parliament Square again? please no more angry lefties putting scaffold poles through police windscreens like in the 80s. Oh yes, the left are all for democracy,as long as only their voice can be heard, Britain is ruled from the nearest socialist state, today Brussels, tomorrow who knows, who cares? one vote per comrade, as long as your trust funds keep rising, pretend that we all have a vote but do everything possible to make sure we don't really. Then the unthinkable happens, the people say 'we've had enough' and you all choke into your Pimms. I will repeat, because history has a nasty way of repeating itself, you can ignore and ridicule the masses for only so long, if you had only LISTENED once in a while and stepped away from your arrogance,we would still be happily towing the line as usual. But the left got too arrogant. So we voted out, do you understand? Now please start showing some decorum and help make Britain work.

Re: Brexit - Sarah (27th Jun 2016 - 10:32:26) Steve I say the same to you as to Dave and The Joy. How? What is the plan? If there was a plan we wouldn't all be so worried. It's not 'sore-loser-ness' it is genuine worry and concern. I know of two people who work for firms that have announced potential redundancies since Friday - one has a 90% chance of redundancy. So what is your grand plan to make us 'great' and what does this 'great' thing mean exactly? Please, tell us the plan, while the pound drops for another day. You must have one?

Re: Brexit - Sarah (27th Jun 2016 - 10:38:25) Tony Are you seriously telling me not to 'barrack' because I ask leave voters what the plan is? You have voted for a leap into the dark and potentially messed with the futures of the other half of the country who voted to remain. How dare you tell me to ask the politicians - the ones who campaigned for leave have not come up with a plan either! So I want you to explain to me what this amazing greatness is you are all voting for. I can also tell you that I overheard 3 parents at school who voted for 'leave ' as a complaint against the government but 'didn't really mean it' and now want to stay in. So, Steve Wilson, what is the plan for this country? Genuine question, not barracking.

Re: Brexit - Mrs (27th Jun 2016 - 11:28:32) Well what a fine mess we are in, Johnson has said no rush to leave as he can see what a bloody mess the country is in after Thursday. They wont be spending the extra money on the NHS, SCHOOLS, ect as promised, as it was a figure that they plucked from the air. Free movement will still go ahead, when they promised it would not. I hope the people that voted to leave are HAPPY, you have shot Britain in the head, and are now denying you pulled the trigger.

Re: Brexit - dave (27th Jun 2016 - 13:20:42) The country cannot survive without trade, so presumably the plan is to re-join the EU once we have left but on far worse terms, or to negotiate a Norway-style deal where we have to accept and pay for all the EU rules and regulations including free movement as before but without having any say in them.

Re: Brexit - Lips (27th Jun 2016 - 13:29:28) On the democracy aspect of Brexit. Yes the Remainers are not a pretty sight at the moment, you can say they are sore. Revelling in their victory, defiance for the sake of defiance, the Quitters have affected us all, Ramainers AND Quitters. The Quitters say the referendum Brexit result is a compliment to democracy: A political assassination, Quitters vote out of spite, Quitters vote personally against Cameron not EU, most can't grapple with the sheer magnitude and complexity of the EU membership. This was an abuse of a referendum. Issues quite so intricate and controversial should be left for experts and qualified professionals; otherwise they can lead to civil unrest and erroneous decisions. When we have a medical or financial concern beyond our understanding we don't ask the majority - we ask the qualified professionals. So we have a murder, spitefulness, ignorance and abuse of a referendum: Not good democracy. In the end we are left with a monarchy and a radical populist narrow government. An insult to democracy.

Re: Brexit - Jen (27th Jun 2016 - 14:13:01) I see that nobody from among the Leavers has been able to answer my question yet!

Re: Brexit - The Joy (27th Jun 2016 - 16:49:43) What's my plan? I'm not a MP, so why would I have a plan.

Re: Brexit - Mrs (27th Jun 2016 - 18:45:58) The Joy, You should have a plan,we all should have a plan how we are going to get of this mess. So far we have lost approx 50,000 jobs to France, Belgium and Germany, but this is the start. When company's start looking over sea to do the manufacturing as it cost to much in England , which in turn will hit the people that supply them, which in turn will put people on the dole. I do hope you then have a plan by then

Re: Brexit - Diana (27th Jun 2016 - 18:52:07) But Joy you must have voted for the plan for the future or what else did you vote for ? all the leave must have voted for what they thought was a plan for their future so they must know what it was

Re: Brexit - Jane (27th Jun 2016 - 19:09:48) How could Cameron go into this referendum with out a Plan B, or was it to do a runner and leave someone else to sort out the mess of his own making? Maybe he is just too used to getting his own way!

Re: Brexit - dave (27th Jun 2016 - 19:44:53) To be fair to Cameron, the mess was created by those voting leave. The government had a plan which was to remain. It was always clear there was no plan B but country preferred to vote for the mess and no plan to get out of it.

Re: Brexit - Simon A (27th Jun 2016 - 19:48:22) The petition now has nearly an amazing 4 million votes. Thank you to everyone who has voted, but please vote if you haven't. This really is our last chance to save our jobs, our NHS, our industry, our savings, our country and all that we hold dear.

Re: Brexit - Deb (27th Jun 2016 - 21:43:28) Not signing it Wouldn't want too . Our numbers in Hampshire were very close together of whom wanted in and whom wanted out The U.K. Got out just get on with it its life If it went the other way you think others would be allowed to change it to out No it be tough luck It take ages to rebuild the uk but it will happen and it will get better Thank you

Re: Brexit - Dave Lambert (27th Jun 2016 - 22:20:42) Hi - Simon A. Is it possible to play Iceland again as we got our tactics all wrong as did the Remain on the referendum. We all had a vote last Thursday that is who wanted too and the Leave side won end of story. I am not a politician but to answer the question do the Leave campaign have plan I can't answer that but what I do know is. 1. The fishermen will be far better off. 2. We will stop sending millions of our hard earned money to Brussels for them to squander. 3.We can now have who we want in our country and get rid of those that we were not allowed to while we were in the EU. 4. Rumour has it that house prices will drop that surely is a good thing at least the next generation may be able to buy there own home. So what if the value of your house drops a few grand the house that you are going to buy will also have dropped so it is all relevant. What we now have to is all pull in the same direction and make sure things are better for the next generation in time you will see that this is the correct decision.

Re: Brexit - dave (27th Jun 2016 - 22:29:58) Or it might not Deb

Re: Brexit - h (27th Jun 2016 - 22:43:25) We should not have to rebuild anything? I asked those 'brexitiers ' before the vote, if they would reimburse me for any personal pecuniary disadvantage, as a result of the "out" vote, and a simpering laugh was their answer. Most of the out vote was to do with discomfort over things which Boris now admits cannot be altered, so I do not understand what benefit people thought they might gain from it? The laws set by the EU had to also be ratified in Parliament, so there are very few things that will change.

Re: Brexit - h (27th Jun 2016 - 22:56:09) We should not have to rebuild anything? I asked those 'brexitiers ' before the vote, if they would reimburse me for any personal pecuniary disadvantage, as a result of the "out" vote, and a simpering laugh was their answer. Most of the out vote was to do with discomfort over things which Boris now admits cannot be altered, so I do not understand what benefit people thought they might gain from it? The laws set by the EU had to also be ratified in Parliament, so there are very few things that will change.

Re: Brexit - Jane (27th Jun 2016 - 22:59:12) Sorry Dave I disagree with you. It was Camerons' idea to hold the referendum and now he is not prepared to stand by the result and take the country into the next stage because he didn't get his own way. He wasn't the only one surprised at the result, I and most people I know whether voting in or out couldn't believe it. As leader of our country he should stand by the majority of the electorate and follow through with their wishes and certainly have had a plan B however unlikely it was that it would have had to be implemented. Not cut and run.

Re: Brexit - Mrs (27th Jun 2016 - 23:07:59) Deb, I can't wait to see what life we have in our LITTLE country. Because we had empire we think we are BIG and strong, but how wrong we are. The poor people that have come to England to work hard for there living are now having people tell them they are vermin. Well shame on you Britain I thought we had been brought up better and told not to tell fibs. if my mum had heard anybody say that or telling a fib she would have clipped round the ear and washed there mouths out with soap. Hang on that's a good idea, perhaps we could wash Johnson and the rest of the leave campaign mouth out, as they told fib after fib after fib. Britain is going to hell in a hand cart. Night night

Re: Brexit - The Joy (28th Jun 2016 - 07:04:57) I think most of the remain camp are suffering from some type of Stockholm syndrome. The crazy stuff they are coming out with borders on madness.

Re: Brexit - A.R (28th Jun 2016 - 10:08:48) I was going to put a post on here as I was getting fed up with some of the remarks. I wont bother now as The Joys post had me in stitches, I can't top that. !! Waiting from some verbal abuse now.

Re: Brexit - Diane (28th Jun 2016 - 10:29:39) At least the people who voted to stay in knew what they were getting and were prepared to live with it and try and improve it. The out voters voted for a pack of lies it now seems

Re: Brexit - tony (28th Jun 2016 - 12:14:11) Mrs, I think you will find Brussels banned that too, today those parents are being dealt with in secret courts, you can't pick and choose European laws, they are one size fits all.

Re: Brexit - Keith (28th Jun 2016 - 12:46:35) I will freely say that I voted Remain. So yes, of course, on Friday morning I was disappointed with the result, but I really really wish people would stop wittering on about a second referendum --- it's not going to happen so move on. As for this petition with over 3 million signatures, a number of hackers from around the world have already said that they bumped it up by thousands and thousands of votes by using computer scripts to automatically register over and over as the Government petition website does no verification on details entered except for checking the postcode is valid (if the 'person' posting is in the UK). At one point the Vatican City had a number of signatures many times more than its population (I notice this morning that after some data cleansing this is now down to 79 people. Apparently at one point on Friday evening the petition signatures were increasing at 20,000 per minute - are we really supposed to believe that was all genuine signatories?? --- also notably the person who originally started the petition has now come out and said they voted for Brexit anyway. The people of the UK made a democratic decision so * if you didn't bother to go and vote - tough, that's democracy for you * if you voted remain and don't like the fact brexit got more votes - tough, that's democracy for you * if as some people are saying they voted for brexit but now wish they hadn't as they only voted as a protest and didn't think brexit had a hope in hell of winning - tough, that's democracy for you * if you didn't understand what you were voting for - tough, that's democracy for you * if some people say they feel they were deceived and politicians are now reeling back on their promises - tough, that's democracy for you (if you need an example consider the Lib Dems position on tuition fees at the 2010 election). A decision has been made, it's time now for us all to grow up, put all of the battles of the last few months behind us and unite to work through the negotiations to ensure we get the best deal possible for our jobs, our future and our children's future.

Re: Brexit - Lips (28th Jun 2016 - 13:40:07) Regrexit, Might have been a clever idea to Brexit twenty years ago, before British North Sea oil had run out. Since then we have lost our industry and have become dependent on supplying services (mainly to other EU countries). Now we are heading for a future with no oil, no industry and no EU services but deep involvement (e.g. dependency on millions of EU workers here and millions UK retirees in the EU). But we've already covered quite well the actual and potential economic disaster Brexit had brought us, the world and to future generations. Consider security and military: The EU want to further integrate and organise an EU army. This is Germany's best opportunity to re-arm itself since the war. Britain is no longer consulted. The reasoning could be Russia or Islamist threat or whatever. Now a vast army that is well funded, just across the water in the east (France, Germany and EU), west (Ireland), north (Scotland) and south (Spain). Now imagine the slightest agitation over something small like Calais smuggled immigrants or misunderstanding over waterways in Gibraltar or a skirmish over a fat fish in the North Sea etc. Coast guards scrambled in on both sides, reinforcement just to be safe... and a huge conflict breaks out. We will not be Great Britain fighting Germany. We will be little England (the Scots and Irish are pro-EU) fighting the entire EU. Little England would be struggling with a beleaguered Brexit economy; and the international or common wealth community? They were against this Brext idea, they won't rush to help us. The unthinkable inside the EU doesn't take much outside of it - made even more likely with a narrow radical Westminster leadership. Worry not, it's just a thought!

Re: Brexit - Lips (28th Jun 2016 - 13:46:42) Oh and another thing in case this wasn't grim enough: The UK was amongst the leading in the EU sanctions on Russia. Russia has an unresolved issue with us. Russia wouldn't dare go to war against EU UK, but a Brexit little England?

Re: Brexit - Deb (28th Jun 2016 - 13:52:18) To Mrs Please put your real name when Writting I don't know how people are allowed to not put there names on here or change names etc :) . We just have to get on with it it's done now. What will be will be. Thank you

Re: Brexit - The Joy (28th Jun 2016 - 13:56:17) If people voted as a anti establishment vote, they seem to be proved right. Clueless elites running around like headless chickens not knowing what to do, just proves that they are all puppets of the EU and not fit for purpose

Re: Brexit - Mrs (28th Jun 2016 - 14:48:46) My name is Jackie, Hope that helps you

Re: Brexit - Lips (28th Jun 2016 - 14:56:12) For those mislead individuals who voted Out as a way to vote anti-Cameron or anti UK Tori government, or against The Establishment or their sore thumbs- your votes have been wasted! That referendum was about the UK membership with the EU. Plenty of Establishment outside the EU. Referendums are not general elections, they are very specific to a single and only one issue. That referendum was abused by murky campaigners misleading voters. One good reason why this subject should not have been voted on in a referendum is that so many were so easily mislead on such a crucial topic.

Re: Brexit - Simon A (28th Jun 2016 - 15:01:31) The leaders of the leave camp have now admitted there is no plan for the country now and that they lied about the extra money they promised for the NHS was a lie. We now know the UK will be subject to punitive sanctions by the EU to cripple our industry to discourage other countries to leave. Fortunately there is still hope. We live in a parliamentary democracy and as such the referendum has no legal significance and is not binding. Leaving the EU will only be triggered when Article 50 is invoked and this can only be done by the government with parliamentary approval. At the last election, the nation voted for a parliament that overwhelmingly wants us to stay in the EU. But to ignore the referendum for the sake of our country would take courage, not something politician are noted for. It is therefore so important that everyone signs the petition to show public support for a second referendum now we know what the consequences of leaving would be. Hopefully if enough people sign then parliament will get the courage to do the right thing, common sense can prevail and this self-made crisis can end. Many people voted leave but wanted remain as some sort of protest vote. Well now is your chance to try and sort the mess out before it really is too late. petition.parliament.uk/petitions/...

Re: Brexit - The Joy (28th Jun 2016 - 15:24:30) To all the remain cry babies, look forward to civil unrest if there is a second referendum. It will be the end of democracy in this country if there is a second referendum

Re: Brexit - Big A (28th Jun 2016 - 15:58:35) We had a referendum Should we leave or stay????? I voted to stay. The majority of the people voted out. So out it is. (Unfortunately) Get over it and move on. If we did stay in and out voters wanted a new referendum you would be up in arms.

Re: Brexit - dave (28th Jun 2016 - 16:06:18) Actually only 37% of the electorate voted to leave (34% to remain and 29% didn't vote)

Re: Brexit - The Joy (28th Jun 2016 - 17:03:07) I wasn't aware that democracy had been replaced with a system that is based upon stamping there feet and bed wetting

Re: Brexit - Susan (28th Jun 2016 - 17:04:25) When we voted in the first referendum as to whether or not the UK wanted to become part of the EU it was a trading agreement. Unfortunately over 43 years this has morphed into something completely different ie the EU bureaucrats can impose their will on the British people in many ways regardless of what a great many of us want. Our independence has been and if we have voted to stay, would continue to be whittled away bit by bit. This has been achieved by stealth and has been creeping up on us for a long time resulting in the birth of UKIP some 15 (it may be more) years ago. The disillusionment many people in the UK have been feeling has also been growing so the UKIP grew as well and eventually forced David Cameron to have a referendum. If only we had been able to stand up the EU bureaucrats years ago none of this would have happened. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the original Trading Agreement and the free movement of labour.

Re: Brexit - Jen (28th Jun 2016 - 17:20:09) Nobody will be invoking Article 50 any time soon! It would be economic suicide for the UK! There will be years of negotiations first, to decide the possible terms of exit. THEN, and only then, will there be a plan of any kind! If we can't negotiate an acceptable exit deal, then surely we won't exit? It would be extremely irresponsible (and sheer lunacy) for any government to deliberately sabotage the economy of its own country and plunge the nation into economic oblivion!

Re: Brexit - dave (28th Jun 2016 - 18:09:14) simon a and all of you other sore losers of the vote, the way you are talking we might as well have the best of 3 or 4 or more until you eventually get your own way! this was a democratic vote with perfectly intelligent people(mostly) weighing up the pro,s and cons and deciding what to vote. 52% of the votes cast said out so out it must be, no one argued with the result of the last general election and want another one did they? If the vote had gone the other way and us outers started objecting and demanding a second vote you guys would soon be shouting us down. Now that the 52% have decided it is cameron and his government who must implement article 50 and follow the correct procedure that we signed up to under the treaty.If it erks you so to live in a non eu country then i respectfully suggest that you move to one that is or build a bridge and get over it! ( no offence meant)

Re: Brexit - tony (28th Jun 2016 - 21:02:00) Jen, you may or may not be right, of course we will seek to exit at the time that is right for us with the best deal, although our 'friends' in the EU are already stamping their feet (as many here are) and demanding that us British pigs must be made to suffer (the nice mask has slipped, you can all see it now if you open your eyes), even our own Chancellor seems determined to make us rue the day we dared disobey him. Thank god we are getting out. The vote expressed our disgust at being overtly ignored by the self righteous spoilt brats who still don't get it or don't want to, fingers in ears. It really isn't all about money, I've lived through every economic up and down in the last half century or more, there are always ups and downs, ups follow the downs! The point is we lived through them to tell the tale and what a tale we will have to tell, instead of Britain continuing to become a heartless, profit mad international stop over in love with our luxuries and trust funds and latest gadgets and bling and kitchen extensions and credit cards, we may even resurrect some of that oil fashioned community spirit, heck, we could even be able to leave our doors unlocked like in the old days, when we had nothing worth stealing! No, don't break out into a cold sweat, you'll never be that poor dears! This is a brave new world where you need to dare to dream, so stop moaning and help make it happen, or are you too scared? And this may surprise you, but I didn't vote to exit, however I will support the people's vote and get behind my country.

Re: Brexit - h (28th Jun 2016 - 21:05:21) I would not agree that people understood all the issues beforehand. The propaganda for the leavers was set to appeal to the basest of emotions, the issues were encapsulated for them into somehow hatred of Germany (after all we won the war), went the rhetoric, and a campaign which was based on "white british good" everyone else bad and must be deported, if the threat to our jobs and future had been clearly explained, then perhaps there would have been some hesitation to vote to leave. Those people who grasp the global marketplace we all live in now were fearful to vote leave. Harking back to the war 70 years ago is a ridiculous reason to promote leaving the EU. It is a backward insular way forward for this country, and I hope the politicians vote against it in Parliament. Forget flagwaving, that will not save your job?

Re: Brexit - dave (28th Jun 2016 - 21:12:13) Jen, That is not how it works. There is no negotiation. We invoke article 50, wait 2 years and then have to accept the punitive deal that the EU says it will impose on us. It was deliberately structured that way to make it painful for anyone to leave.

Re: Brexit - Jim (28th Jun 2016 - 21:19:47) Why do people talk about winning and losing as if the referendum were a football match? The issue surely is about protecting out economy, jobs and public services when we lose our largest trading partner. If we go into another recession as predicted, we will all lose.

Re: Brexit - Jen (28th Jun 2016 - 21:24:25) dave, "Sore Losers"??!! This isn't a game!! We Remainers are not upset that we "lost", we are upset because the consequences of leaving the EU will be profound and will affect our children and grandchildren for many decades to come. There are no winners. We are ALL Losers!

Re: Brexit - Simon A (28th Jun 2016 - 22:44:50) Great news. We now have over 4 million votes on the petition. Please keep voting and hopefully that embolden parliament to debate the issue and perhaps call a general election before the self-destruct button is pressed. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Re: Brexit - dave (29th Jun 2016 - 00:35:12) you lot who wanted to stay in the EU you are just like kids in a play ground WHO CANT GET THERE OWN WAY GROW UP WILL YOU

Re: Brexit - Jeremy (29th Jun 2016 - 07:46:30) When people keep going on about the future of their children, grandchildren, and whoever else. Have you all got access to a crystal ball, is the future going to be that bad. I believe that my kids, future grandkid's, still have a great future, believe in the country for God sake were a great Nation. By the way, yes l did vote out, immigration was a big issue for me, to many people living on a small island.

Re: Brexit - Jen (29th Jun 2016 - 08:04:00) " Re: Brexit - dave (28th Jun 2016 21:12:13) Jen, That is not how it works. There is no negotiation. We invoke article 50, wait 2 years and then have to accept the punitive deal that the EU says it will impose on us. It was deliberately structured that way to make it painful for anyone to leave." dave, Jeremy Hunt stated on the BBC yesterday morning that there could be a 2nd referendum, to poll opinion on an Exit plan, which would have to be negotiated, before Article 50 is invoked.

Re: Brexit - Ian (29th Jun 2016 - 08:09:41) Dave, it's somewhat ironic how infantile and immature your contributions to this post are becoming, now please GROW UP!

Re: Brexit - Dan (29th Jun 2016 - 09:03:06) Looks like someone needs to go back to school and learn the difference between 'there' and 'their'

Re: Brexit - N (29th Jun 2016 - 09:11:57) Dave, ever taken a holiday in Cornwall or Wales? Well, you can expect to pay a lot more in future as the EU funded both BILLIONS . The Eden Project alone received over 25 million in EU funding. A tourist attraction which created jobs & brought ££££ into the area. Both Cornwall & Wales voted OUT despite receiving BILLIONS from the EU, biting off the hand that feeds them. Locally I suggest you take a look at how much EU funding Hampshire has received over the years. It might surprise you ! Now you brexiteers want to cherry pick the best bits & negotiate deals to keep things in place. Out means out. Even though I voted In, I think it's you *lot* who are the hypocrites. You voted out, suck up the consequences. It's our kids I feel sorry for, they're the losers in this for example --> www.welcomeurope.com/european-subsidies-sector-Education+Training It's you who needs to *grow up* here but alas it's too late now . Good job.

Re: Brexit - roo (29th Jun 2016 - 09:14:17) Simon If you are that determined to stay in europe move to a european country instead of inciting the MINORITY TO RUIN IT FOR THE MAJORITY. The MAJORITY voted to leave europe so accept that decision if this is not possible move to a european country

Re: Brexit - Sarah (29th Jun 2016 - 09:57:57) I am very proud to be British and always have been, but I also want to be part of Europe. The EU is by no means perfect and badly needs reform, but I want to be part of it because I think it offers increased opportunities and stability (whilst I also agree that movement of labour etc needs to be looked at and reformed). To me this is not a game, it is something very serious and worrying to many people in the country - to almost half the people in the country. So please, will those of you who keep talking about winning and losing, stop doing so. You are merely proving the point that those of us who voted remain are worried about - that the people who voted leave are ignorant! Give us a reasoned argument about what you have voted for and what you see the next steps as being to get us there - but stop with the playground 'loser' shouts. I respect democracy, but that does not mean the outcome is always right. If a teacher asked her class what they would like to do all year and the majority said 'watch tv' instead of learn, would that make it right? No, it is a question that never should have been put to the masses, and for many of us this question should never have been asked en masse, or, the result should now be voted on by elected members of parliament. Please stop telling us we are sore losers - this is something with serious implications for all of us for a long time to come, and almost half the population are very very worried. We can't undo the result in 5 years like a disagreeable General Election result.

Re: Brexit - Ian (29th Jun 2016 - 10:19:42) It is a tragedy how divisive this has become, and quite scary for the future of our country, you can see how civil wars start!!! For the record and despite voting to remain I would like to believe the majority of leave supporters were anti EU rather than anti Europe so really Roo, contributions like yours telling people to leave the country is really unhelpful and hopefully not representative of the leave EU supporters in general. Lets just calm down, respect differences of opinion (true democracy) and also move forward together as a nation now the decision has been made.

Re: Brexit - Dave Lambert (29th Jun 2016 - 10:48:26) Just to say the Brexit vote has clearly upset some people. As one person has stated when had the referendum back in the seventies it was supposed to be a trade deal like it or not it has escalated far beyond what the people of the UK voted for. If the people of the UK had known some forty plus years down the line we would have our laws made for us, we would be sending them millions of our hard earned cash for very little reward, have no control of our borders just to name a few the outcome of that vote would most probably have been that we never joined. So please just accept the referendum result and in time you will all see that the great British people will make Briton a strong trading nation and you will wonder what all the fuss was about.

Re: Brexit - J (29th Jun 2016 - 12:05:52) I don't get this "no control of our borders" argument. We have control of our borders, we're not in Schengen, we check passports on entry! Ireland do this as well, hence the Common Travel Area. In order for trade deals to work, you have to agree to some commonality of products - hence many of the joint laws. I'd have liked to have seen a proper list of what laws have been "imposed" on us from the EU, and then we could work out whether many of them we wouldn't have wanted anyway... I doubt many will get scrapped when (if?) we actually leave.

Re: Brexit - Mrs Jackie (29th Jun 2016 - 12:41:42) The Rats are starting to leave England, Vodafone are taking their head office away from England, so that along with 50,000 jobs already gone. Well done you Brexit people, England is going to the dogs :-(, and its not even been a week.

Re: Brexit - A.R (29th Jun 2016 - 13:11:06) Mrs Jackie, your choice of words is very apt. The rats are leaving, good riddance I say. It works both ways, we stop buying their products. Lets hope some of these corporations loose some money. Just goes to show what they are all about.

Re: Brexit - Jim (29th Jun 2016 - 13:15:30) Mrs Jackie, It's not a case of "Rats are starting to leave England", it's a case of us voting them out. Businesses that trade significantly with the EU have to be in the EU to survive. The Leave vote will result in substantial job losses and consequent loss of tax revenue and reduction in funding for public services, but blame the Leave campaign not business.

Re: Brexit - Graham (29th Jun 2016 - 13:22:59) @Mrs Jackie Vodafone have not yet moved their HQ, contrary to what you say. They have said that they MIGHT move it but that's all they have said at this stage. Please can we deal with facts rather than spinning a possibility into a definitive to suit your agenda? Anybody seen the markets today? "Bremoaners" need to calm down. You argued that the country will suffer if we vote to leave the EU and now seem hell bent on making sure that happens. Get a grip. A democratic vote has been taken and we ALL need to move forward on the basis of that DEMOCRATIC vote.

Re: Brexit - Lips (29th Jun 2016 - 13:24:42) Thank you J. And in response to claims similar to Dave Lambert above that 'if we knew it was more than access to markets we never had gone in in the beginning': As already mentioned, any access to any market would always have strings attached. If people over forty plus years ago voted In without realising the implications of a common market - well then they were sadly misinformed. Perhaps even dis-informed. Funny how that same voting crowd that was dis-informed in the beginning had now yet again been dis-informed by the Out campaigners. Doesn't take much to mislead the masses. For those immature people supporting the notion of 'you don't support Brexit then move to the EU': Quite how serious are you in suggesting half (now probably over half) the electorate should leave? The Quitters like to boast the referendum as democratic; quite how democratic is it to tell a minority (at least half the population) to leave if the new law doesn't accommodate for that (Remain) minority?

Re: Brexit - h (29th Jun 2016 - 13:28:09) Anyone with any understanding of how things work these days, and not back in the days of the 80s and 2 million unemployed will want to keep us in Europe and the free movement of goods, services, and labour from those countries. One very telling interview this morning, with a lady who owns an international business She is glad, as she says it will mean less immigration control now for when she wants to bring all her neccessary staff over from india and the far eastern countries. So that will happen.

Re: Brexit - Lips (29th Jun 2016 - 13:29:49) A.R. Some of us may stop buying from businesses banished out of Little England to the EU through resentfulness. The rest of us may stop buying because those departing businesses will take away with them the salaries and taxes they pay us here!

Re: Brexit - Mrs Jackie (29th Jun 2016 - 13:45:58) Well if the rats leave, there will be no Jobs, no opportunities for our children. I can't believe the things people are saying Re: we stop buying there products. England is going backwards, and if we do stop buying there products we will be left more in the dark. We are a Island and rely on products that come from all over the world. If we lived on what England can produce we would not have a lot. Before you say but we can be great again away from the EU, just think what is was like before we joined. Re immigration, I'm sure that the good people of England would love to do the jobs that these people do for the money they get, and how hard they work. The reason they came over in the first place, is because British people did not want to the jobs in the first place, they wanted to stay at home and get every thing paid for This will be my last post. So I hope to see you all soon Mrs Jackie

Re: Brexit - Jim (29th Jun 2016 - 14:03:39) Mrs Jackie - The 'rats' aren't leaving, we voted them and their jobs and their money out

Re: Brexit - Deano (29th Jun 2016 - 14:10:54) Mrs Jackie - Here are a couple of facts for you. The UK has NO trade deal with India. We are the 5th biggest investor in India and they are the 5th biggest investor in the UK. And yet we have no trade agreement with them. Why? Because we are part of the EU which has no trade agreement with India because not all member states can agree on it. The UK has NO trade deal with Australia! Why? Because we were part of the EU which has no trade agreement with Australia because Italian tomato farmers are preventing one from being agreed. These are just 2 examples of many. You may not agree with the vote to leave and I am sure you have what you feel are good reasons for voting that way. But it really isn't all the doom and gloom you are protraying which is unnecessary scaremongering in my opinion.

Re: Brexit - Lips (29th Jun 2016 - 14:31:24) Deano and others who think the EU is the only union protecting its own: Both Australia and India (USA and others) are federal or unitary economies. That means their external trade agreements also must be approved by their on constituent states, just as the EU does. Other countries belong to other regional unions (e.g. the African Union and the South American Union) also protecting their own interests. Not any country outside the EU is so poised and willing to deal with the Britain. Not the well-off UK as it had been inside the EU, even less so following the Brexit devolution and downturn. Good luck to Little England adrift.

Re: Brexit - Lips (29th Jun 2016 - 14:43:41) Tony, you are right. It's not all about the money, it's also about opportunities, security and more. Consider the posting - Lips (28th Jun 2016 13:40:07) above. Yes, it is hypothetical, but not all that unlikely in Brexit Little England.. If Brexit means war, should we still uphold the results of this misunderstood abused referendum? Votes are more precious more than lives?

Re: Brexit - Lips (29th Jun 2016 - 14:52:52) Hi h, Please can you give us more details so we trace that interview this morning, with a lady who owns an international business? What channel? Time? Name of programme etc? Kind thanks.

Re: Brexit - The Joy (29th Jun 2016 - 17:58:21) Well at least the remain people will have a constant excuse for anything going wrong in the future. Brexit. Go and be European in Europe if it means that much to people.

Re: Brexit - TP (29th Jun 2016 - 18:20:40) some of the posts on this thread from the remainders are quite unbelievable. A few considerations The FTSE is now above it's value pre brexit vote. The hysteria is beginning to slow down. The "petition" is a long way from the 17 million that voted for out, notwithstanding all of the fraudulent votes. NATO not the EU has been and still is the defence organisation. We are founder members and we still are members, we are not on our own! We still have our seat on the UN Security Council, in spite of the EU wanting it. There are World trade organisation agreements in place for trade.

Re: Brexit - Lips (29th Jun 2016 - 20:10:27) The referendum FTSE levels were exceptionally low, not a major achievement to surpass. Oh yes, the shock hysteria will diminish, only in time to realise the greater extent of the new Brexit medium and long term-reality. The UK is inside NATO, but in case of a UK-EU conflict, the majority and the major NATO countries are in the EU. Not forgetting that Germany and Russia are not in NATO. UK's membership in the UN? I say the UN is expensive, corrupt and bureaucratic, following Brexit reckless rebellious logic, why not quit it too?!

Re: Brexit - Terry (29th Jun 2016 - 22:24:05) Lips. The FTSE 100 is frequently lower than it was on the 23rd June, it was lower on at least nine previous occasions before the 23rd, in June alone. At present the countries belonging to Nato are: Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, GERMANY, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherland, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom and United States. 193 countries belong to the United Nations and each one is a member of the United Nations General Assembly and includes both Russia and Germany.

Re: Brexit - h (29th Jun 2016 - 23:05:12) Hi the interview was with business owners on the today programme on between 7-9 AM it was not a very long interview.

Re: Brexit - Simone (30th Jun 2016 - 09:41:28) In relation to someone who said that family law cases are held in private: that was a decision made by the UK parliament for the benefit of the children whose cases would be discussed. This is what we are loosing and gaining (sovereignty of the UK parliament?): The European Union is based on the rule of law. This means that every action taken by the EU is founded on treaties that have been approved voluntarily and democratically by all EU member countries. For example, if a policy area is not cited in a treaty, the Commission cannot propose a law in that area. A treaty is a binding agreement between EU member countries. It sets out EU objectives, rules for EU institutions, how decisions are made and the relationship between the EU and its member countries. Treaties are amended to make the EU more efficient and transparent, to prepare for new member countries and to introduce new areas of cooperation – such as the single currency. Under the treaties, EU institutions can adopt legislation, which the member countries then implement.

Re: Brexit - Simon A (30th Jun 2016 - 15:27:27) Great News. The call for a second referendum (or general election) is gaining momentum thanks in part to the petition and is now supported by Jeremy Hunt. Please sign it if you haven't already and thanks to all those that have. petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Re: Brexit - Big A (1st Jul 2016 - 12:30:22) Not in your wildest dreams well there be another referendum Get over it....Simon

Re: Brexit - Simon A (1st Jul 2016 - 17:38:19) Great News: With the Leave leaders abandoning their coause and admitting they deceived the public, Theresa May is now the odds on favourite to become the next prime minister. This is really excellent news as she is in the pro-remain camp and understands the necessity to stay within the EU. If we continue to sign the petition to show our support then she might have the courage to delay invoking Article 50 and call a second referendum (probably dressed up as a general election) where common sense can prevail and we can return to peace and prosperity. Remember it was only a minority of the electorate that voted to make us all poorer and many of those actually wanted to remain in the EU but voted leave as some sort of protest. Please sign the petition if you haven't already. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Re: Brexit - Drax (1st Jul 2016 - 18:38:24) Simon, I think you might need to seek help. A significant MAJORITY of those who voted voted leave. Are you entirely blind to the news this week that a lot if the project fear stories were not true and will not happen? Sensible people will look at both sides of an argument and will have accepted this result for what it is. Please try and do the same.

Re: Brexit - A.R (1st Jul 2016 - 18:53:04) Next time the Tories get in can I ask for another election ? I hadn't realised I could have prevented them getting in. I can see someone starting a petition for the Brexit voters next. Some people really want this to fail, and how sad that they have such little faith in their country and of the other countries. This has been about governing ourselves and looking after our people, and using our money how we wish. I hope our friends and neighbours of the Eu have the same chance. Big is not necessarily better, as we have found out to our cost with most large corporations. People have nastily made it seem that those who voted out were racist. Most people are not, and I for one hope our big European family will still provide us and them with a healthy tourism industry. As for any politician from any country that tries to ruin it then I hope they are made to leave their post. Anything can work if you want it to, lets just see who wants it to.

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