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Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Mr & Mrs Ellis (16th Jan 2016 - 13:27:02) All you lovely people of Liphook if you love Liphook as we do we would like to draw your attention to phase 2 of the Lowsley Park development of 175 houses application No 34310/029 which has been resubmitted with very slight alterations. The main concern we have is that they plan to widen the roads in the square at the Headley Longmoor Road roundabouts. Looking at it closely they intend to remove 3 flower beds and replace them with HGV run offs completely devastating our conservation heritage historic square and ripping the heart out of our lovely village centre. If they would use the money to build a link road between the Headley Road and The Longmoor Road it would make much more sense and benefit the community. It would also benefit the Lowsely Park development of 330 houses and the Pope’s Field development of 36 houses which a join the Lowsley Park development they would then have the choice of Longmoor Road or Headley Road as exits doing away with the need for most of them going through the square. If you really have Liphook’s future at heart please go to East Hants Planning site application No 34310/029 got to documents Pretention off site junction improvements No 4361.005-- 4561.011A --4361.012A and post your views. If we are right it will mean the end of Liphook as we know it and possible the end of Liphook in Bloom as well.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - G Renouf (16th Jan 2016 - 15:16:31) Must be being dim cannot find on Hants web site ??? Also tried putting in liphook but not listed under that ? Do you have any other ref's ? I am sorry to say that councils no longer care about local communitys there told to build so they do and steam roller any objections In 40 plus years there have been many changes to Liphook square some good some bad The simple fact is the square cannot cope at peak times and IT really does need a relief road around to ease congestion BEFORE any more houses are built! Why we build house before the proper infrastructure has been built I really do not understand COMMON SENSE does not prevail !!! With the amount of gardens now being used as building plots it will get harder and harder for a relief road to be put in place A road from station road through too Longmoor road would make a huge difference to congestion in the square Haslemere road to london road ....hmm not so easy past the library ? back of coytes ? london road to headly road .......???? no space to build a road Also to get traffic from Haslemere road to link to station road behind the shops ?? how ?? the old fabriform site ??? If they build at the CHicken farm then those roads will need updating so maybe time to change some of the smaller roads into decent access/relief roads ?? There is no easy answer and it will upset somebody ,I am afraid there are going to be changes to Liphook it has grown from a village ( Sorry to say ) into a small town and there will be growing pains There is no magic wand Come on Liphook get your thinking caps on we all live here and cannot bury our heads in the sand and say its somebody elses problem We need to pull together as a community and turn things around

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Disco Tex (16th Jan 2016 - 16:29:21) G Renouph: That\'s odd, it worked for me OK yesterday. The EHDC Planning website clicking into \'Search for Planning Applications\' then the Case ref which Mr and Mrs Ellis have kindly given us. Good Luck !!

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - GR (16th Jan 2016 - 17:36:40) OK found it Right it looks like the will reduce the pavemnet outside SK electircal to allow large lorries to turn safely and the top of Longmoor road which is now pebble are to be reduced for the same reason ( this is already in poor condition ) But the beds outside the old Nationwide and opposite by the Anchor would be lost to the new road proposed So I take it this puts pedestrians nearer the traffic ? sensible !! rumble strips and coloured tarmac wow that will look wonderful and achieve nothing and a granite rumble strip wow were in for a treat with that copy and paste link to look planningpublicaccess.easthants.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails... Maybe traffic lights at peak times would be better than the free for all we have now! and maybe that would stop people blocking the roundabouts ! come on Liphook comments

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Natalie (17th Jan 2016 - 07:31:48) I drive through the village during peak times. Yes traffic isn't great but it's not that bad. It would be a real shame if they do this, it'll look terrible. The other side now the tree has gone, still looks awful and it doesn't appear that anyone is in a rush to fix that. Plus I don't think any consideration for the extra children walking to school has been taken into account. Such a shame. Hope it doesn't get through.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - H (17th Jan 2016 - 10:49:05) I do agree the proposal is awful but any children living at lowesly Park will not walk through the square to get either to Bohunt School or the Junior school?

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - tony (17th Jan 2016 - 11:33:50) If the developer finds our square too small or quaint for his needs, tell him that's absolutely fine, he can take his lorries elsewhere, we like our historic square how it is. Why should we widen it to let articulated lorries use it when we ought to be banning them from our town centre like many other places? Let him bring his lorries in off the A3 and up the Longmoor Road, then when the developers have made their millions and jetted back to Monaco or something, at least we'll still have our square to remind us we were once a village. Or better still, give us something we really need, like a by pass east to west or a swimming pool or a proper leisure centre or better local buses, not just a butchered square designed for bigger lorries, the problem is we are the rump end of Hampshire and get overlooked for any useful civic investment until a developer turns up and offers to widen a road here or there in return for more houses. It's a total lack of joined up town planning, you cannot grow a village into a town just by building thousands of new houses ad hoc, wider roads and a Sainsbury's. We are inviting social problems long term.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - liz (18th Jan 2016 - 08:46:19) I understood Liphook had already met its quota for new housing. As far as I can see the proposed 175 further new homes will be a massive overdevelopment in a village/small town which does not have the facilities to cope. The extremely cheeky proposal to ruin the look of the Square - no doubt to fend off objections relating to increased traffic flows just beggars belief. It is a Conservation Area. Not that the developers give two hoots I suppose.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Jaybee (18th Jan 2016 - 12:23:09) I seem to remember that when the Liphook Petersfield bypass was opened in July '92 a sum of money was paid to either E.H.D.C. or H.C.C. by the Highways Authority, This money was intended for road works in Liphook & Petersfield to deter through traffic particularly H.G.V.s from using the old A3 through Petersfield and Liphook. Road works were carried out in Petersfields College Street and seem to have served the purpose for which they were intended. As far as I can recall the money ran out and Liphook ended with a half hearted attempt of a few cobblestones around the roundabouts which were later removed. In 1998 Sainsbury's arrived and plans to deter H.G.V.s from the village were forgotten. Traffic from Petersfield to Haslemere continue to pass through the square rather travel up the A3 to were the Little Chef was and to Haslemere via Hammer lane or for larger vehicles to Hindhead, Traffic from Haslemere appear to use Highfeld Lane, Midhurst Road, Station Road to get to Petersfield. From my observation traffic through Liphook is now greater than before the by-pass was opened.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Diane (18th Jan 2016 - 13:19:51) We agree with Gary. By pass roads first then build the houses. No bypass then No houses.. Developers to finance the building of the roads and any compensation needed. Leave the square alone .

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Katie (18th Jan 2016 - 21:05:48) Thanks for drawing attention to this. I have posted an objection on the council's website, along with three others, but it would be great to see more people doing the same. Here's what I wrote: I strongly object to the proposed changes to The Square in Liphook. The widening of the carriage way will destroy the character of the centre of the village, which is supposed to be within a CONSERVATION AREA. The proposals intend that flower beds will be lost also contributing to an irreversible change in the appearance of the village, which prides itself on the work done here by Liphook in Bloom. In addition, it will place pedestrians, many of whom are children walking to school much closer to traffic and on narrower pavements. If these changes go ahead, they invite further traffic, particularly large trucks into the centre of the village, causing fuel and noise pollution and making it unpleasant or even dangerous for residents to access local businesses within The Square.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Katy (19th Jan 2016 - 15:45:14) Have posted my objection. As a pedestrian I don't fancy having to run the gauntlet of three lanes of traffic on the London Road. Can't imagine how much chaos it will cause at the roundabouts. Imagine two lanes of traffic hitting the roundabout, not signalling in true Liphook style, trying to negotiate rumble strips and crossing points- scary! Also, as the lorries now trundle across the flowerbeds with gay abandon I dread to think what will happen when they trundle across the lowered pavements too. Never mind though if they squash a few school children it will make a few more places available in the over crowded schools!

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Editor (19th Jan 2016 - 15:59:39) This is the plan

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - liz (19th Jan 2016 - 16:45:36) The map is also very misleading as as it doesn't show the layby on the east side of the Square - while the one on the west side, which is a bus stop, is not clearly marked. It would no doubt cause considerable problems if these were removed or reduced in depth.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - helen m (19th Jan 2016 - 17:30:39) Katie you put it very well and cover everything I would say. can we use your words when lodging a protest? many thanks

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Phil (19th Jan 2016 - 18:31:48) Have objected to the proposed development and road changes. Worth reading the Air Quality repor as it gives estimates for the increase in car and HGV traffic.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - A . ryan (19th Jan 2016 - 18:45:20) Well, all I can say is perfect timing for the demise of the Horse Chestnut tree.. If more housing is to be built further out of the village well guess what , more traffic, all heading to the station and Sainsburys. This proposal will bring utter chaos to Liphook and I fear far more hazards to the Bohunt children than there already are. Yet just because some red tape and some bigwigs have decided that a piece of arable land must come within the National Park, housing and a possible link road down on the Bohunt Manor site is ignored, and yet this would have the least adverse affect to the centre of Liphook. I can not comprehend the logic to extending the growth of Liphook further in this direction as any resident using the facilities of Liphook will need to use a car. If this goes ahead I fear those that allow it will contribute to another nail in the coffin for Liphook.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Gavin (19th Jan 2016 - 20:14:04) I totally support the comments made hitherto on the subject of Liphook\'s historic square. It is interesting to note that the EHDC Web site, under the heading \'planning\' begins with the following sentence. I quote \'The planning system is designed to protect the environment in towns, villages and the countryside, while giving people and local businesses the facilities they need.\' I cannot for the life of me see that the application to change the Liphook Square, as proposed by the developer, either protects the environment of our village or provides any kind of facilities for people or business. In applying for the second time, to build an additional 175 houses on the Lowsley Farm sites, the developer has acknowledged, by attempting to redesign our Square, that the extra traffic from the 330 houses he would like to build (having permission already for 155), will cause a problem for Liphook. Particularly as all the traffic from this huge site can only exit on to the Longmoor Road. The logic of being able to exit this site onto both the Longmoor Road and onto the Headley Road, is surely inescapable. Certainly, if the council are minded to change their robust refusal of the original application for these additional houses, this simple expedient should be insisted upon. The safety of the children of Bohunt School is further compromised, not only in the Square, but by the various proposals included in this package that sees various changes to the Longmoor Road which at the beginning and end of each day is in reality a mobile car park as children for all three schools are dropped off or picked up. There are no new factors introduced by this developer that mitigate against the many justifiable points made when EHDC considered the original application and turned it down. It is now going to appeal. Let us therefore ensure our Representatives are well aware of our views and turn down the changes to our Square and the application for yet another 175 houses.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Keith & Ros Thomas (20th Jan 2016 - 17:14:50) Just to say that we have registered our objections on the EHDC website and we would urge anyone else who has a view on the proposed destruction of the heart of the village to do the same. The link to the website is planningpublicaccess.easthants.gov.uk/... and add planning number 34310/029 to the search box at the bottom and click search. Then click on the yellow box "Make a Comment" and add your views. It will be no good bleating and whingeing about the impact if we allow this to happen.

Lowsley Development /Square - MH (20th Jan 2016 - 17:18:07) To all local residents, I urge you to visit the planning site and object. I have just looked at the plans and commented. There appears to be a lage number of people using this forum to complain about the scale of the housing development and the proposed changes to the village yet there are only 11 public comments on the planning website. If you care at all about the future of Liphook, please use the link and object. Apathy will get us nowhere.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Katie (20th Jan 2016 - 18:57:43) Hi Helen, Yes, you are very welcome to copy & paste my objections.

Re: Lowsley Development /Square - Chris (21st Jan 2016 - 07:01:55) Please be heard, leave your comments Object ,Support or Neutral.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - T. Ritter (21st Jan 2016 - 13:25:42) Easterton's Transport Assessment states (para 3.3) that Longmoor Road is a B road, whereas Hampshire County Council Highways' database of highway status and EHDC's Planning interactive planning map both show Longmoor Road as a C road. That such a basic point of highway capacity can't be either 'got right' or, if necessary, a recording anomaly explained seems to me to cast doubt on the professional reliability of all the rest of the detail of the Transport Assessment.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Mandy (21st Jan 2016 - 14:18:50) I have just lodged my objection to the council website. I would urge anybody who does not agree with this proposal to do the same. It is very easy and doesn't take long. I followed the link given on a thread above and placed the number in the box. Really easy.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Dawn Hoskins (21st Jan 2016 - 18:39:16) I’m not trying rain on anyone’s parade, but the ‘planning department’ can only take notice of ‘planning issues’ when deciding whether to accept or reject a proposal. Valid reasons to reject an application are: 1. Effect of the development on the character of the neighbourhood 2. Design issues 3. Density / overdevelopment of the site 4. The proposed development by reason of its size, depth, width, height and massing would have an unacceptably adverse impact on the amenities of the properties immediately adjacent to the site and the surrounding area by reason of disturbance, overlooking, loss of privacy, overshadowing and visually overbearing impact. 5. If in a Conservation Area, adverse effect of the development on the character and appearance of the Conservation Area 6. If in Green Belt, The proposal by reason of its siting would lead to a fragmented form of development along the frontage of XXXX Lane out of keeping with and detrimental to the character and appearance of the area and would be harmful to the open, rural and undeveloped character of the Green Belt. OR The proposal represents an inappropriate form of development within the Green Belt and in the absence of any special circumstances would by its inappropriateness have a harmful impact on the open, rural and undeveloped character of the Green Belt. If you are wishing to object to issues [other than planning] then you will need to provide technical evidence to support the allegations you are making - otherwise the decision makers do not have to take any notice. If the decision maker’s come a decision based on any issue that is not a planning issue they will lose at appeal. That is why they don’t do so. So by all means write in about highway safety but you need to back it up with something other than your emotions. If you don’t have anything like that – then just stick to the valid objections that the decision makers are duty bound to take into account.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - h (21st Jan 2016 - 21:35:24) I believe that this is linked to the first application for 150 houses which recieved planning permission. Tne application is about the design only, the design of the houses and the re design of the square, because Hampshire highways advised the square needed modification to cope with extra traffic. I think it is pointless to write objections about the principle of the houses after they have approval, object on design grounds. The second application for the extra 175 houses has gone to appeal. Tnere is no maximum figure the figure of 175 was a minimum requirement not maximum, having said that EHDC have found that they have a 5 year land supply so there is no urgency to allow more houses than they need to.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - liz (22nd Jan 2016 - 08:38:01) I thought Highways have some say in planning issues and safety must be an issue for them?

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - steve miller (22nd Jan 2016 - 10:41:50) I suggest that anyone interested in the specific issue of traffic in the centre of Liphook should read the updated transport assessment which has just been put on the EHDC planning portal (34310/029) with all of the other application documents. This document has been prepared by the developers transport consultants and sets out their arguments as to why additional traffic generated by the new proposed development can be accommodated with modifications to the existing mini roundabouts in the village centre. It appears that there are now additional options for these 'improvements' and drawings of these can be found in the appendix to the document I have only given the new report a quick scan but there appears to be much contained within it that objectors could use to ague that the planning application should again be rejected. In particular (see page 24) the morning queue in Longmoor Rd appears to increase from 36 to 54 vehicles once already approved developments and the addition of 6th Form traffic at Bohunt school is taken into account. The consultants attempt to argue that this will be mitigated by the implementation of travel management plans for Bohunt School and the new Lowsley Park development but this appears to be little more than wishful thinking in my opinion. Given the emergence of this new document, those of you that have already objected might like to make further comment on the council planning website!

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Gavin (22nd Jan 2016 - 12:17:52) I am somewhat surprised by Dawn Hoskins\'s post. My notification from East Hampshire District Council makes it quite clear that with this latest application, 34310/029, which is new application, I am entitled to make comments on issues relating to planning law, which exists to control development and use of land in the public interest. Among other issues comments may be made on: 'the effect on the street and area, traffic generation and safety and even noise and disturbance.' Surely the comments made with reference to Liphook Square fit into these categories. I hope those who care about Liphook will continue to register their disapproval the proposed traffic plan with EHDC.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Dawn Hoskins (22nd Jan 2016 - 14:04:12) Yes - that is true - Highways are one of the consultees obliged to be involved by virtue of Statute. They will not comment on the housing design etc. but will say if the road widths meet legal minimum standards, whether sight-line angles are within the correct limits etc. They will not be able to comment on the changes to the village centre altering its historic nature – only if it is safe.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Dawn Hoskins (22nd Jan 2016 - 15:08:21) Yes, planning law exists to control how houses/buildings are designed/built and how the use of the piece of land (that they are considering in planning terms) is used. EHDC obviously have listened to someone as they threw the last plan from this developer due to the increased traffic movements (possibly the Highways department?). So here we are with phase 2 of the developers design. The tricky problem here is that if the first one was thrown out and given specific reasons for its refusal – the chances are that the developer has taken these reasons for refusal into account & amended them when drawing up the second attempt. By all means put it in your objection letter, but as said previously, the planning department will only be deciding on planning issues – other statutory consultees will give their reports as to the roads and EHDC will have to listen to them on that. I’m sure there are loads of website that you can google if you type in “valid reasons to object to a planning application” or something along those lines. Personally I hate the urban sprawl that the planners are allowing to take place in Liphook. We will soon have every bit of green space concreted over (within the Settlement Boundary) and as it is not Governments that pay for and build the houses – but private developers – the really desperate need for facilities will go unheard. The developers will stick to every ‘minimum’ requirement that they have to – so the gardens will be as small as they can legally be, the roads will be as narrow as they can legally be, the garages will be as small as they can legally be and there will be no consideration given for additional cars owned by a family or those visiting a dwelling. It is happening the length and breadth of this country and the planners just nods their heads and agree to it. Government policy dictates that they must. So they must.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - liz (22nd Jan 2016 - 15:56:43) Doesn't the fact that the Square is a Conservation Area carry any weight? Also I would have thought that the combination of higher traffic volumes combined with narrower pavements would be detrimental to safety. Would the new houses count as over development bearing in in mind the lack of facilities and the parking problems that already exist in Liphook?

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - bdavies (22nd Jan 2016 - 16:22:42) All, please register your objections. So far there are only 19 on record.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Gavin (22nd Jan 2016 - 17:21:47) Dawn, Reference your last email, I can assure you, having attended the EHDC Meeting where the original planning application was thrown out, that the developer has not addressed many of the objections that led to that decision being made. If we are to succeed against this second application and win the appeal that is being raised against the first application, we need the support and the vote of those on the EHDC who determine the outcome of these applications. Hence it is necessary for our representatives, Angela Glass, Bill Mouland, Rebecca Standish, Ferris Cowper to support and fight our corner yet again. They have done quite brilliantly so far. My fear that is that the senior management at EHDC are already minded to support any application at Liphook. The head of this department would appear to be One Julia Potter, but I am ready to be corrected on that. It is also extremely difficult to find out who,exactly, are the actual decision makers in this case, in order to voice our objections to them.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - wedster (22nd Jan 2016 - 18:50:34) Some extremely good points have been made on this thread. I do hope the planners at East Hampshire District Council occasionally read LIphook talkback. The square in Liphook is the very best bit of Liphook and the flower beds, tended in all weather by some very noble, unpaid helpers add to its charm. It is difficult to tell from the developers map how narrow the new pavements will be, but it can only make it more dangerous for the school children, who , after all, are the majority of pedestrians. Who would blame the parents for dropping them off at school by car if they think it is too dangerous to walk? We should be trying to get rid of lorries in Liphook not making it easier for them to travel through. I simply cannot believe that even EHDC will let this one through.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Steve Miller (22nd Jan 2016 - 21:29:58) This is an extract from the consultant's updated transport assesment which relates to their alternative proposals for the mini-roundabout at the top of Longmoor Rd:- ----------------- 6.31 In response two further options have been explored, both of which allow the retention of all existing landscaping and trees. The first, shown in Drawing 4631-011A attached, shows a more informal junction arrangement with enhanced pedestrian crossing facilities on all arms and surface treatments that provide for a visual reduction in scale of the junction to minimise vehicle speeds and better channel vehicles through the junction. The removal of formal road markings signals to drivers that they are passing through a sensitive village centre environment and that pedestrians have a greater level of priority than they would in a conventional road environment. Although it is difficult to model the performance of a scheme such as this it is likely, based on experience elsewhere, that the junction modifications would not have any significant impact in terms of capacity. The arrangement would both enhance the village centre environmentally and improve pedestrian accessibility around the village centre. 6.32 An alternative ‘hybrid’ layout, shown in Drawing 4631-012A attached, retains some elements of conventional road markings but retails the enhanced pedestrian crossing facilities on each arm and some of the high quality surface treatment. Again, no adverse impact in terms of loss of landscaping or trees is associated with this layout. ------------- Local residents should of course form their own opinion as to whether these are more acceptable than the original plan on the basis that they do not require removal existing landscaping arrangements such as the flower beds. It appears that the developera (and HCC) are well aware of local opposition to the original suggestion and have put forward these alternatives in an attempt to present themselves as sensitive to local opinion. It is worth noting from the text that they appear to have abandoned any arument that these latest proposals would actually improve traffic flow at the junction which makes it difficult to understand the point of undertaking the work at all. In my own opinion these changes (and particularly the removal of road markings from the junction) would actually make traffic flows considerably worse and would lead to potentially dangerous confusion between motorists and pedestrians as to who actually has the right of way! Most of the existing public objections on the EHDC web portal are clearly expressing opposition to the original plan which required removal of the flower beds. If those objectors feel equally strongly about the latest alternatives it is important that their objections are updated to reflect that fact or EHDC might be able to argue that the latest ideas now have public acceptance.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - h (22nd Jan 2016 - 22:35:23) Planning permission for 150 houses at Lowesley Farm was granted under number 34310/016 The latest batch of applications are to do with reserved matters which are dealt with in seperate applications, design and layout of the estate, and "improvements" to the square, due to the increased traffic from the estate. Eastertons have sold to Taylor Wimpey, which is why these applications are from them, and seem to duplicate previous applications previously submitted by Eastertons. After permission for 150 houses was given, Eastertons submitted a second application for330 houses which was refused, but the appeal is in the pipeline. The permission for 150 houses is still valid.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Phelim (25th Jan 2016 - 09:28:08) Having lived in Liphook all my life, and remembering what the centre of the Village was like before the by-pass most of what is slated to be removed is NOT historic and was put in place by-pass (flowerbeds and the double-yellow line area in front of Finlays for delivery parking only). As such it is only about 20 years old. The problem is Liphook has changed totally since the by-pass has opened, with Sainsbury's being much bigger than it was originally given permission to be. How much do we stop progress to keep what is pretty? Do I want it to happen? No! Should it happen? That is another question.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Bush (25th Jan 2016 - 09:59:08) Urbanisation USED to be a novel progressive process. I see nothing 'progressive' about urbanising everything, preserving a rural community is the new 'progress', that's novel!

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Bush (25th Jan 2016 - 10:49:09) The removal of the Liphook village historic tree and the unavailing of the new traffic rearrangements in the historic village heart have coincided remarkably! Population growth, traffic congestion, increased road safety issues. Had anyone considered smart transport / access solutions (public transport, car share, cycle, pedestrian short-cuts,etc.) before ripping out our streets and squares? Conceivable there may just be another way to grow bigger without the excessive additional private car (often a single person) journeys?

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Ed (25th Jan 2016 - 16:50:57) Can we get the Haslemere road widened from the roundabout to Allianz while we are about it. It's much to narrow, I saw a double decker school bus drive along with two wheels on the pavement for 100 metres Friday at 8:35.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Mr & Mrs Ellis (28th Jan 2016 - 16:20:16) Well what a good response to our thread. Looks like 100% against ripping the heart out of our Conservation square. Taylor Wimpey will be presenting their plan at the planning meeting on February 15th at the moment. If you feel as strongly as we do about our lovely village please please put your objections into EHDC planning and attend the meeting in February. We must try and force them to liaise with the adjoining developer of 36 houses off the Headley Road, who are willing to talk, and build a link road between the Longmoor Road and Headley Road to service this huge development. As a previous entrant has said “no good moaning and winging when they have done the deed and you are sitting in huge queues on all 6 roads leading into our square and missing your train”.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Steve Miller (28th Jan 2016 - 18:01:53) If I could try and clarify the various planning applications as things are getting really confused! The Taylor Wimpey application (34310/028) is for detailed permission to build the phase 1 of 155 houses which were granted outline permission a couple of years ago (34310/016). The opportunity for public comment on this application closed early in the new year. The application which is the subject of this thread (34310/029) is an outline application for a phase 2 consisting of an additional 175 houses to be built in the space remaining between phase 1 and the A3 Liphook By-Pass. This application is not from Taylor Wimpey but is from the original developer/land owner Easterton who have recently sold the phase 1 land to Taylor Wimpey. Presumably if they get permission for phase 2 they will probably again sell on the land to TW or to a similar house building contractor. Just to confuse matters even more, this current application from Easterton is a reapplication following EHDC’s rejection early last year of an almost identical phase 2 application (34310/022). Easterton have also appealed against that rejection and the planning inspector is due to conduct the appeal in June of this year. The most recent application (34310/028) is running in parallel with the appeal and local residents are able to make comments on the EHDC planning portal until 10th February. Taking into account all of the above, even if a link road is worth pursuing, given the current state of play with land ownership, it could only really be a subject of a discussion between Easterton and the Developer of the site adjacent to Headley Road as Taylor Wimpey currently have no interest in the land connecting Phase 1 and the Headley Road site. Whilst I have been an advocate of some form of ring-road around Liphook for some time, I am rather pessimistic about this particular link being viable in current circumstances. Such a link between Headley Road and Longmoor Rd would undoubtedly attract non local traffic wishing to avoid the Square which would create a rat run along estate roads which are not designed for this purpose. I fear that Hamphire CC would not be very supportive unless the link was designed to eventually be a section of a more ambitious scheme perhaps connecting Longmoor Rd with Portsmouth Road. Whilst a properly designed link of this kind (Longmoor Rd to Headley Road) would be desirable, at least in my opinion, it is clearly against the interests of all three of the developers currently involved because it would take up land currently intended for housing. Such a plan would also take away a part of the proposed SANGS open space on which planning approvals for both Phases 1&2 are dependent.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - H (28th Jan 2016 - 18:26:20) To widen the road up to the roundabout on the Haslemere Rd you would lose the tiny pavement that is there outside the private houses.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Steve Miller (28th Jan 2016 - 20:47:06) Having just re-read my last post I can see that I am risking causing even more confusion. For the avoidance of any doubt the most recent (Easterton) application is in fact 34310/029 and not 028 as I mistakenly stated in the 4th paragraph.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Steve Miller (31st Jan 2016 - 14:50:28) I see that a sign has gone up in the square promoting a link road and asking Taylor Wimpey to keep its hands off of our square. Whilst I agree completeley that a properley designed link road would be desirable it is unfortunately missing the correct target to blame Taylor Wimpey for the proposals currently being considered by the planners at EHDC. The proposed modifications to the road layout at the top of Longmoor Road have in fact been put forward by Easterton Ltd who are attempting to gain outline planning approval for phase 2 of the Lowsley Farm development. Taylor Wimpey are now the developers for Phase 1 (having purchased that part of the site from Easterton) and are seeking detailed planning for that phase of 155 houses. Outline planning for phase 1 was granted about 3 years ago and transport matters (including the impact of additional traffic through the square) were addressed at that time. Like it or not, and I certainly don't, EHDC and HCC concluded at that time that any increase in local traffic arising from this first phase of 155 houses could be accomodated by the existing road system. The application for detailed planning consent does not now involve any further consideration of traffic issues. Phase 2 is a completely different matter and I believe that HCC are, rather belatedly, rather more concerned about the impact of even more traffic araising from the additional 175 houses now proposed by Easterton on top of all the other development already in the pipeline and this has presumably led to the rather dubious ideas to change road layouts in the Sqaure. Therefore any objections should be aimed at the Easterton application. There are about 10 days remaining before the public consultation closes.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Al (1st Feb 2016 - 17:33:09) On the substantive application, I have no problem with Phase 2. We have to take our share of new builds and the site in question makes sense given its good A3 access through proximity to the Griggs Green Junction. But I don't see the need for the changes at the top of Longmoor Road. The current roundabout forces traffic to slow down and makes it difficult for lorries. That's no bad thing as at least they have to move slowly. All site traffic for the Lowsley development should be required to access the area from Griggs Green and not use The Square at all. That's what I've told EHDC

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Mr & Mrs Ellis (2nd Feb 2016 - 16:29:39) You are quite right Steve it is Easton that are presenting the application but they are working under the umbrella of Taylor Wimpey who will develop the whole site. As for the link road no it doesn’t have to go through the developments it should run parallel with the A3 and all the houses from both developments should exit on to it giving them the option of Longmoor Road or Headley Road giving the Headley Road development the option of joining the A3 without going through the square and the 330 houses of the other development the option of joining the Headley Road again without going through the square. A Win Win situation for all. Having looked at the parish plan page 11 / 15.57 it states THE SQUARE. EHDC should ensure that the appearance of the conservation of the area and historic buildings surrounding the square are maintained and enhanced. HCC should be asked to research ways of reducing or removing traffic from the SQUARE. Other improvements should include additional parking affordable housing and the provision of a small shops precinct similar to those in Petersfild. So a proper link road could be the start of achieving this.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - S (2nd Feb 2016 - 18:45:16) Not that I am in favour of these plans, but to those of you crying 'link road' please consider the long-term future of planning developments in liphook. If a link road is built, it is going to open up a whole lot of currently inaccessible land for development. That will ultimately lead to a considerable amount more growth in Liphook. Please be careful. I can see there is a lot of rage going about this but perhaps it would be a thought to sit down over the plans and work out whether there could be any kind of compromise ...it would improve the traffic situation in the square no doubt, and also sounds like safety can be improved as there are currently lorries coming off the road while turning and I have read people moaning about near misses at the zebra crossing too. Could there be some benefit in negotiating for a down-scaled plan, more in-keeping choice of road materials (eg unintrusive lampposts, traffic control), sensitivity for the heritage of the town centre so that it could go ahead without being a massive eyesore? I think that there could definitely be some leverage there to improve the current plans impact considerably, but someone needs to come up with sensible suggestions (the developers ain't going to!). It will only go in the developers favour if we obsess over a link road or blanket objection without forcing through realistic improvements.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Steve Miller (2nd Feb 2016 - 19:55:36) A key issue with any changes to the square is whether there can be any solution that would improve traffic flows and therefore mitigate the impact of additional journeys generated from the Lowsley Farm development and of course all of the other already consented housing schemes which will make the problem much worse in years to come I am not a transport planner but have had some exposure to road improvement projects during my working life and I am very doubtful that any significant improvement could be achieved in this difficult and very constrained location without doing something extremely radical that would inevitably bring us back to the debate over preserving the character of the area. The simple short term solution here is for EHDC to once again reject the current application which whilst not making the traffic problem go away would at least slow down the inevitable worsening of the current situation. I agree completely that providing a link (ring road if you like) between say Headley Road and The Portsmouth Road would open up the possibility of even more development in this quadrant of the Village (town?) but I fear that this will almost certainly happen one day in any case (and yes I know its in the national park) as current pressures on housing are not going to go away. Wouldn't it be better to approach future development with a properly thought structured plan rather than continue with the current position that pretty well all development happens at the whim of developers and those fortunate enough to own land on which they might one day achieve planning permission? It is probably wishful thinking but I would really like to see HCC and EHDC sit down together and come up with some sensible options for the area over say the next 20 years. Who knows they might even address the very real need for suitable new infrastructure which is going to be in ever greater need as the village continues its inevitable growth.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Jane Ives (2nd Feb 2016 - 20:10:32) Steve You come up with some very interesting points and you are probably aware the parish council (on which I sit) is just kicking off the Neighbourhood Plan. We do have some volunteers to start the project but it's absolutely crucial that people who live here get involved and engage with this. Your views are really important for the future of our lovely village. Updates will be posted on the PC website on a regular basis so please do keep an eye on things there. Jane

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Steve Miller (2nd Feb 2016 - 22:56:49) Jane I see that you are not on the PC Planning Committee but can you shed any light on the forthcoming planning meeting on the 15th? Mr and Mrs Ellis appear to understand that Taylor Wimpey are presenting their plan at that session. Presumably if so that must be the Phase 1 reserved matters application which has nothing to do with this debate about changing road layouts through the square? I am a bit confused by the suggestion that Taylor Wimpey are behind phase 2 as I had been advised otherwise but I guess they might have an option to purchase the phase 2 land if Easterton are sucessful with their latest attempt. Even so it seems unlikely to me that TW would want to discuss phase 2 at this particular PC planning meeting. I will perhaps have to come along and see for myself!

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Jon Travolta (8th Feb 2016 - 11:21:10) The banners at the mini-roundabout convey the entirely correct message in my view. Well done !! The whole area between Longmoor Road and Headley Road cries out for a professional and independent development plan; the ground is capable of providing much more in 'community benefits' than are offered far without compromising the necessary housing numbers, including a tactical link road. Why doesn't our Planning Authority provide or promote such plan? Our District Councillors, all three of them, should have the acumen and qualities of leadership to take this forward.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Liphook motorist (8th Feb 2016 - 12:44:55) I have just examined the diagram earlier in the thread. If the Portsmouth Road fans out into two lanes on the approach to the Longmoor Road roundabout, traffic will struggle to enter the roundabout from Longmoor Road. At busy times, your best option for entering the roundabout from Longmoor Road is when someone coming from Portsmouth Road turns left. This can provide just enough of a gap to get out, if the roundabout is not blocked. Under the proposed arrangement, the Portsmouth Road traffic going to Headley or London Roads will just keep streaming onto the roundabout. On this basis, Liphook centre will be a non-option for anyone travelling from Longmoor Road during the peak times.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - H (8th Feb 2016 - 14:48:12) Our 3 district councillors have concentrated on objecting to the whole site each time it arises. They have always seemed to have been in favour of refusing the application, and despite half of it already having permission, are not moving from that standpoint. The second half has already gone to appeal.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Mr & Mrs Ellis (9th Feb 2016 - 19:44:07) Easterton / Taylor Wimpey are presenting the Lowsley Park development plan on Monday 15th at the Parish Council planning meeting. The Easterton Development team are giving a short presentation before hand. ( will be interesting ) This is the opportunity to voice your concerns especially about their plans to destroy our Historic Conservation Square. See you there.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - liz (10th Feb 2016 - 10:14:32) Times please? Planning meeting at 7.30 I presume (no time given on PC website) but what time is the presentation prior to this. Thanks.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Russ Ellis (10th Feb 2016 - 10:43:54) Yes it is on the PC website. Just click on planning meeting then on Feb meeting then on agenda and it tells you every thing and you can print it off. As normal for all PC meetings. bramshottandliphook-pc.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Agenda-Feb-2016 - Presentation is down as item 5 - so is during the meeting not prior, it seems.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - liz (10th Feb 2016 - 11:49:11) Thanks Russ. It also seems Green Village Investments are back with yet more plans for Bohunt despite being refused by the South Downs National park. Heaven help us - you won't be able to move in Liphook if all there plans get the go ahead.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Steve Miller (10th Feb 2016 - 14:13:57) Russ I am a bit confused as the Agenda refers to a presentation by Easterton and the first item on the application list is the easterton application for phase 2. No reference to Taylor Wimpey that I can see?

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - Russ Ellis (10th Feb 2016 - 16:02:32) Steve, Taylor Wimpey sent out leaflets some time ago saying they had acquired the Lowsley Park development so it doesn’t take much to know that they have acquired the whole site. Probable owned it from the beginning. Easterton are presenting the phase 2 plan. If it is approved they will disappear. Job done as happened at Maple Park. Blue Harbour developments after 2 appeals got it changed from brown field site to green field site by getting permission for a nursing home and promptly disappeared. In stepped Wimpey with a plan for 63 houses. Ha presto. So you can see big Bucks are in our village. So we must make them do the right thing and put infrastructure in i.e. roads to take the traffic around our conservation square.

Re: Concerns for Liphook's Historic Square - liz (10th Feb 2016 - 16:50:26) Developers should not be able to wade in and make changes to our 'Conservation Area ' to suit their own ends. If the proposed housing density is too much for the village it is overdevelopment and the village should not be spoiled to make way for it. A much as I am in favour of conserving the Square we must make sure it is not at the expense of the rest of Liphook. A sort of 'inner ring road' as some are proposing would be a nightmare.

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