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Local Talkback
Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.

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40 mph southbound tunnel
- Mary W (30th Jul 2015 - 20:05:26)

40 mph in the southbound tunnel since the end of last week.

Does anyone know why? Nobody working there or broken down. Real mystery.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Jane (30th Jul 2015 - 22:15:00)

Came through about 5 this afternoon and it was back to national speed limit. As usual that meant 50mph for some!

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Fred Splinge (31st Jul 2015 - 12:03:27)

For your information Jane the national speed limit is a maximum speed limit not a minimum sped limit !

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Andy (31st Jul 2015 - 12:15:45)

I think, Fred, that Jane's point is more to do with the fact that a lot of people have no idea what the speed limit through the tunnel actually is, some also seem to think that the white line is solid and you cannot change lanes. I've lost count of the number of times I've been overtaken by cars doing 80 to 90 on the approach to the tunnel only to have them slow down to 50 or so through the tunnel. They then accelerate away once they have passed the cameras, back up to 80 or 90 again.

The speed limit of 70 through the tunnel is a guideline and the government refers to it as a maximum safe speed. When you take your test these days you are encouraged to drive at what is called "road speed" which, on a clear, mild day with light traffic would be in the region of 70mph on the A3 at this point. I would strongly argue that if you are doing 50mph in a normal road vehicle then you are travelling too slowly under these conditions, particularly if this is in the outside lane holding up traffic which could be travelling safely and much faster.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- liz (31st Jul 2015 - 12:20:44)

Yes Fred, but the police are trying to stop people hogging the outside lanes - which is what happens in the tunnel. If you want to to 50 you should move over and let others pass.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Ian (31st Jul 2015 - 13:32:28)

Liz, you are not allowed to change lanes in the tunnel. And 50mph is hardly excessively slow!

Ian you are wrong and this is the cause of lots of problems. You are allowed to change lanes in the tunnel. The 'Lane Control' signs only refer to the cross and tick markers over the lanes when one is closed off. 'Lane Control' is not the same as 'Stay In Lane' seen in other places. Please feel free to change lanes within the Hindhead tunnel.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Ian (31st Jul 2015 - 13:58:32)

stand corrected Ed, thanks.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- liz (31st Jul 2015 - 14:39:34)

50 mph is fine - but not on the outside lane of a dual carriageway when there is space to pull in.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Ian (31st Jul 2015 - 14:55:54)

I suspect that if there was a crash at 50mph or above in a confined space such as a tunnel, the effect would be catastrophic.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Fred Splinge (31st Jul 2015 - 16:00:28)

Thanks guys,that set the cat amongst the pigeons ! As an ex driving instructor / driving and traffic examiner i think i know the rules. Oh dear .Good luck, Fred

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- liz (31st Jul 2015 - 16:17:46)

The law on lane hogging is relatively new.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- jo herridge (1st Aug 2015 - 23:48:41)

i travel through the tunnel every day and it was 40 southbound everyday except fri when it was back to normal. I never did find out why the speed was 40 on the other days

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Mary W (2nd Aug 2015 - 17:10:55)

How these posts get hi-jacked and taken off course!

A simple discussion about why a 40 mph speed limit was on for a week can turn into all this bitchy stuff!

And I still don't know the answer. I would like to know, do we phone Highways or Balfour Beatty? Any ideas?

Incidentally, the white line down the middle of the tunnel is a broken line, so it's permissible to overtake and pull in with care. And it is maddening when someone in the overtaking lane stays there doing 55 mph when there is nobody in the inside lane. We can't overtake on the inside because it is dangerous and against the law. Maybe they should have a video camera there and a police car on the other side to pull them over.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Brian (2nd Aug 2015 - 19:37:49)

I wonder if it had something to do with the non-functioning left hand lane control signs. A couple of times I witnessed cars panicking into thinking the left hand lane was closed and moving into the outside lane even when there were no other cars ahead. In light of the increased risk of an accident plus the inability to enforce lane control (if required), it seemed sensible to enforce a lower speed limit.

On a separate note I would like to see the rules on driving through tunnels brought up to date. On the continent you can be fined for not switching your lights on (admittedly there are more tunnels). A good warning sign would help. It's not unusual to find dark areas where the overhead lights have failed.

There is no requirement to switch your lights on in the Hindhead tunnel. The lighting is deemed to be good enough under normal circumstances.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Mary W (2nd Aug 2015 - 22:55:31)

On the dozen occasions I used the tunnel last week, neither lane was shown as closed, so I don't understand it.

I always put my lights on in the tunnel, mainly because when a few cars are well-lit the odd one without lights become much more difficult to see.

My Swiss friend says that their tunnels always have a lower speed limit than other roads. She thinks the Hindhead tunnel is quite dangerous.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- liz (3rd Aug 2015 - 08:50:51)

Mary W

I don't know why you think your post has been 'high-jacked' when every post relates to speed in the tunnel. Also a bit of harmless repartee, particularly if relevant, is not "bitchy-stuff".

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Katie (3rd Aug 2015 - 10:11:42)

I was discussing the tunnel speed limit with my parents last week.

Both are very experienced and confident drivers who have driven all over the world. They lived for years in Germany & Switzerland and also think the 70mph speed limit is dangerous and should be lowered to 50mph.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Fred Splinge (3rd Aug 2015 - 11:25:02)

Would some mathematical genius like to work out just how many seconds you save by driving at a consistent 70 mph rather than at a consistent 50 mph throughout the length of the tunnel.Just wondered.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Andy (3rd Aug 2015 - 12:00:58)

Fred - what about the congestion as everyone slows down by, let's face it, 30mph as they approach the tunnel? May as well bin the thing and re-instate the old Hindhead nightmare....

It's a wide, well lit, short, dual carriageway tunnel. 70mph is fine under normal conditions. If you're not comfortable doing 70 then slow down and keep to the inside lane. I'd argue that 50mph is a little on the slow side to be in synch with other traffic though.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- A. Ryan (3rd Aug 2015 - 12:50:38)

Obviously people would like to go back to the good old days of queuing at the Hindhead traffic lights,and massive pollution around Hindhead. Remember those days?

The tunnel is very short and having to go through at 40 mph could hardly be described as a hardship and does everyone feel the desperate need to overtake on such a short bit of road?

I too think 70 mph is too fast, and a bit of common sense should be had, if you loose control in there it would not be good news.

Maybe I have been lucky but most of the times I have been through, there have been no hold ups and people have not been doing 70mph

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Mary W (3rd Aug 2015 - 14:21:30)

With respect to A Ryan, it isn't the 'hardship' of going through at 40 mph that is the problem. It is the fact that it is on a 70 mph, almost motorway, that causes trouble. Mainly because of the 'knock-on' effect. Everyone sees what happens approaching Guildford going south in the rush hour, when it reaches the 50 mph. Traffic queues up right back to Burpham.

There have been many studies done about this 'backward travelling wave' caused by perhaps just one driver over reacting to a hazard and braking a little too suddenly. If the whole road back to Tolworth is 40 mph, then there would be no hold ups.

Might take a while to get home though. Even my maths tells me it would almost double the time.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Brian (3rd Aug 2015 - 16:46:58)

Mary W:

There were no lane closures. The left hand lane control signs were not showing their usual green arrows (or anything else). At the entrance to the tunnel, the overhead sign said \'Tunnel open\'. However, this did not stop some drivers thinking the left lane was closed.

I also agree that effect of the tunnel needs to be smoothed out. In an ideal scenario you could do multiple speed zones. This would smooth the traffic without creating the jam. I wonder if it would solve the issue of the driver who over reacts to seeing the cameras and the tunnel. They would have already set an appropriate speed before the tunnel and would be less likely to over react by slowing excessively.

Editor: I agree there is no requirement for lights being switched on but the debate I was starting was really about improving the safety of the tunnel.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Fred Splinge (3rd Aug 2015 - 17:01:08)

Hi Andy and anybody else concerned : i am perfectly happy to drive at 70 mph where safe and at no time did i say that i wanted to pootle along at 50 mph,also i am well aware of lane procedure .Nobody has yet come up with the answer to my question though !

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Andy (3rd Aug 2015 - 20:09:58)

Hi Fred.

If the tunnel is 1.5 miles long (I think it's slightly shorter than that) it will be 1 minute 49 seconds roughly at 50mph. At 70, it will be 1 minute 17.

Time isn't really the point is it though? As someone else has pointed out, it's the knock-on effect to the traffic behind you as happens when the A3 slows to 50 through Guildford. This may well result in delays of a lot more than 30 seconds. Also, there are regular accidents at the cathedral turn-off in Guildford as well which may be attributed to the additional congestion in the 50mph zone.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Huw (3rd Aug 2015 - 20:37:49)

In answer to Freds question
70 mph is 58 secs for the 1830M tunnel length, 50 is around 1m 20s

I don't think the 20 sec saved is the issue, it is more likely that the lack of attention or arrogance of other road users causes the frustration


Lane hogging aside I believe the tunnel is a wonderful asset should be applauded

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Mary W (5th Aug 2015 - 23:26:18)

See we're back to 40 mph again today.

If I could understand why, it wouldn't be so annoying!

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Jeff (7th Aug 2015 - 14:40:57)

Why just south bound I wonder?

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Richard (8th Aug 2015 - 08:49:06)

I went through on Thursday and it was 40, but work was underway. I wonder if they have an electronics fault that is as yet unresolved?

Balfour Beatty manage the tunnel, but I suspect they do not read this board...

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Editor (10th Aug 2015 - 16:25:23)

To know the reasons behind congestion / an incident / a fault, you should contact Highways England Customer Contact Centre on 0300 123 5000 (24hrs a day) or by email: info@highwaysengland.co.uk. They will provide a response to queries/complaints within 10 working days.

My query resulted in this response

...there are many reasons for why the 40mph signs may be initiated in the Hindhead Tunnel. The RADAR system detects slow traffic, stationary vehicles, animals and debris amongst other hazards that could put motorists in danger. The way the alarm system works is that a reduced speed limit and a message is automatically set in the tunnel just in case of an incident. The alarm system is highly sensitive in order to detect even the slightest thing that may be dangerous for motorists. If this causes a false alarm, the Operators in the control room who are continuously watching the CCTV cameras vigilantly, will ensure this false alarm and 40mph speed restriction is cleared within 30 seconds or so. I am sure that you would agree that it would always be better to slow motorists (who could be unaware of what is head of them) down in case of an incident.

Another reason why 40mph signs may be activated could be due to signalling failures. This is in line with our minimum operating requirements from Highways England. We are unfortunate to have had these faults recently however I can confirm that this has now been repaired. If there is a technical fault, the mitigation is to reduce the speed limit to lessen the likelihood of high speed accidents.

I must emphasise that this is a safety feature and safety is the primary concern for EM Highways and in this case particularly, the team that maintains the Hindhead Tunnel.

I can also advise that the team are looking to upgrade the signs and systems to prevent further closures. This is due to happen this week (Monday-Thursday overnight) under Lane 2 closures in both bores. The 40mph speed limit will be in place for safety reasons as there will be traffic management and the workforce in the bores.

Re: 40 mph southbound tunnel
- Richard (10th Aug 2015 - 18:44:21)

Editor, fascinating response. Thank you for taking the trouble to find out from Highways

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