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Feeding pets - Editor (21st Jul 2015 - 11:31:39) I have moved this discussion away from the 'Fish Bar' thread. Starting with the first comment here stacey (18th Jul 2015 10:38:17) have you tried complaining to the owners? The customer who does not complain in person will never get things changed. I am not suggesting you should eat what you do not like, but to buy food and then throw it away is wrong, do you not have a dog to feed it to? my dog eats anything except oranges and lemons, she will relish leftover anything, be it curry fish and chips salad, anything. By the way she does get fed dog food! Andy Stacey - I appreciate this is a different topic from the main thread but have a read of this: Dogs-health-at-risk-if-owners-feed-them-table-scraps-experts-warn You may want to reconsider feeding your dog leftovers and scraps...

Re: Feeding pets - stacey (21st Jul 2015 - 11:34:55) Hi Andy, the article on what to feed dogs refers to such things as chocolate and wine. A dog's natural diet would be raw meat and bones. I do not feed anything processed to my dog, and I do not eat ready meals or anything with salt or sugar in myself, so hopefully my dog will live for more than her allotted span. We as a country have been keeping pets for many hundreds of years before they invented canned and dried pet foods. People used to only give them meat or fish, nothing much else. If you look at the ingredients in most pet food it is soya and cereal protein, which confirms that they can eat other things happily other than meat or fish. My dog has never been ill with anything wrong with her, ever. I agree that some human food would be bad for them, in the same way it is just as unhealthy for us!

Re: Feeding pets - Andy (21st Jul 2015 - 11:36:06) Stacey - yes, we had pets hundreds of years ago and didn't feed them canned or dried food but what sort of age did they live to and were they healthy? Advances in medicine and nutrition have led to a huge increase in the life expectancy and general health of humans and I'm pretty certain this is also the case for pets as well. What concerned me about your post was feeding your dog leftover curry. Why not check with your vet whether this is OK next time you see him, regardless of whether it was homemade or bought from a shop? After all, I'm sure you love your dog very much and wouldn't want to do anything that may harm him / her.

Re: Feeding pets - stacey (21st Jul 2015 - 11:37:17) My mother in law fed her cat on nothing but left overs and fresh fish. It lived till 21. My dog is already 14, and has had no digestive problems at all. I have already asked the vet about this subject, it was he who said that raw bones and meat are the healthiest, as the teeth get cleaned naturally. It is over breeding of the dog breeds for financial reasons which causes the ailments in dogs. Mine is not a crufts pedigree specimen but she has been far healthier. If farmers have dead animals, they sell them to the hunt, the dogs are probably very well looked after by the hunt, as they have to be in tip top condition to hunt the foxes, but thats another thread. Seriously though, my dog is not a minature king Charles Cavalier or such like, and I take her to the vet for regular checks. She is a fairly small dog and has outlived most other dogs her size already. I recently went to a dog show, sponsored natuonally entirely by a company specialising in selling raw pet meat. Just take a look at the ingredients on the back of most pet foods most do not contain anything narural, that is why they have to add all the vitamins to it, almost entirely cereal based. If my dog showed signs of kidney problems I would immediately change to a diet lower in protein. Pets in fact did live longer years ago.

Re: Feeding pets - S (21st Jul 2015 - 13:33:17) While your anecdotal experience of the benefits caused by leftovers and raw food are no doubt persuasive, they don't actually prove that these diets are ideal for dogs. ("My grandmother consumed nothing but carrots & coca-cola her whole life and lived to 112"...). I find it hard to believe that your vet has advised a raw meat & bones diet, since most vets would be quite cautious about advising this - it's so easy to get it wrong, and while it can be a good and nutritious option, there are a lot of risks involved. The British Veterinary Association says the following about the raw meaty bones diets: • Dogs and cats may be fed with home-prepared ‘natural diets’, but it is difficult to achieve the optimum balance of requisite nutrients in this fashion. • The feeding of raw meat and bones to companion animals carries particular risks, including infection with pathogenic bacteria associated with uncooked meats (e.g. Salmonella, Campylobacter) and injury (e.g. intestinal perforation) caused by bone fragments. The BSAVA (the BVA’s relevant specialist division) advises against the feeding of raw meat or bones to companion animals for this reason. • The RMB lobby proposes that the feeding of bones is beneficial to oral health (teeth and gums). Similar benefits may be achieved by feeding of purpose designed kibble food or dental chews, without the attendant risk of damage (e.g. fractures) of the teeth. (www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/31/british-veterinary-association-policy-brief) I am curious to know where you found that pets did in fact live longer years ago? Even if this is true, I doubt that diet is the reason for a decrease in life expectancy. I think there are a large number of factors in play, and probably the most prominent of these would be the continued over-breeding of pedigree breeds, creating exaggerated 'desirable' features in order to create the perfect pedigree dog. E.g. squashed in facial features that cause breathing problems in pugs, or other breeds whose necks & backs have been stretched, legs shortened, causing problems with their spines... Many 'purebreed' pedigree dogs are prone to serious medical problems of one type or another that shorten their life expectancy, this is why mongrels are often the healthiest and more long-lived dogs going. (dogbehaviorscience.wordpress.com/.../100-years-of-breed-improvement). I agree that many of the brands of dog food available in the supermarket are very processed and based on bland, un-nutritious (cheap) cereals etc., same as a lot of human processed foods, but they do all contain enough nutrients & the right kind of vitamins to keep a dog basically healthy, and some brands of processed foods are very very good. I think there is probably a better option than the extremes of the very cheap processed kibble, or raw meat & leftovers - and hope that anyone considering feeding a raw meat diet to their dog does a serious amount of research (including reading the criticism of this option), as it does carry its own risks, and needs to be done carefully.

Re: Feeding pets - stacey (21st Jul 2015 - 15:50:06) Thank you for the science, I agree totally re overbreeding of dogs. The vet has said not to feed raw bones to young pups which makes sense. All data on what age previous pets lived till is anectdotal, as the research into it was none exsistent. As a whole I am pleased we look after our pets, I am sure there are some who do not. As with humans, a healthy diet is important for animals. If you look at some dog treats which people buy they are full of sugar. I am not saying every dog would thrive on a more natural diet some small delicate dogs would not.

Re: Feeding pets - Simon (21st Jul 2015 - 16:37:08) Good grief, wish I'd never asked about the new chippy...... (thanks for moving Ed!)

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