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Meeting on Drains - 20th July - Trevor Maroney (20th Jul 2015 - 09:54:19) Tonight 6.30 pm Millennium Centre Please be there to demand a study into the existing foul sewers and storm drainage systems. This is your chance to make a difference, don't waste it.

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - Dawn Hoskins (21st Jul 2015 - 12:35:41) Any feedback Trevor?

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - Les Futcher (21st Jul 2015 - 22:51:11) Thanks to Trevor Maroney,the Millennium Hall was nearly full to hear about Liphook Drains. The audience heard from many residents all around the village of horror stories going on for many years,evidence that the foul water drainage system is not fit for purpose. Representatives from Thames Water were in attendance but were unable to give any indication that this situation would improve in the near future. Parish Councillors and East Hants Councillors were also present to hear these sorry tales. I would like to think all of the plans on the table for large scale development in the village should be turned down until Thames Water bring the whole drainage system up to standard and fit for purpose. But who will the Water Company listen to, their customers or their shareholders.

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - Trevor Maroney (22nd Jul 2015 - 09:42:14) I would like to thank all of you who responded to the call and attended, what I consider to be, a farce of a meeting. I had arranged for 40 extra chairs. Where were you all? So much for solidarity! My thanks to those suffering from flooding who, once again, patiently explained the same unresolved flooding issues: raw sewage running down the gutters; storm water entering the foul drainage system; alarm bells fitted in manholes to give residents time to fit their own pumps to protect their homes by pumping more raw sewage onto the street; those with their front doors permanently sealed up and dams around their back doors to protect their property; those having to pay £2,500 for household insurance etc (I could go on). This time in front of district councillors who had nothing to offer. They even refused to take away the request for an urgent study into the drains. This is needed before granting any further developments. It did not help that HCC, the primary flood prevention authority, were not present. This enabled Thames Water, once again, to pass the buck and offer no solutions other than to continue filling in their complaints form. I dread to think how many filing cabinets they have now filled. I have given my feedback to the chairman. As you would expect it's rather lengthy - too long to publish here. I am happy to distribute copies to anyone suffering directly from flooding and to those of you who shared my bad experience by attending the farce. Just email me at tmaroney17@gmail.com

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - DiscoTex (23rd Jul 2015 - 20:33:41) I too was disappointed. I had anticipated a say 15-minute presentation (with Power-point slides) regarding Thames Water Authority\'s maintenance and investments costs of the Bordon/Lindford STW and associated infrastructure during the last say 5 years and planned expenditure on maintenance and on new works during the next say 10 years... but nothing remotely like that occurred. The panel\'s response to the couple in Midhurst Road was fairly insulting (to the whole audience), in my view. And I should have liked to have learned how much money TWA received as \"developer contribution\" in respect of the new housing on the former OSU site and, now, Silent Gardens - and how that money has been spent ? If no contribution/s was obtained - why not? I feel none the wiser as to the condition of the sewage disposal system in this locality and its ability to cope with the next 10 years. Our district councillors sat politely quiet; one of them advertises the title of Portfolio holder for Planning. On Monday evening we saw no evidence of any planning at all. Nonetheless Thank you very much to the Organiser for making all the arrangements; clearly we have more work to do on this subject.

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - liz (24th Jul 2015 - 09:17:54) Presumably you have sent your case directly to Thames CEO, Ofwat and our MP? Probably it won't be easy though as Thames is ultimately owned by a group of investors and pension funds including Australian Macquarie Group who are ultimately too distant nad probably not interested in what happens in Liphook. Ofwat is there more to regulate the bigger picture than deal with individual customer concerns - but worth letting them know how your concerns were (not) dealt with. As for Damien Hinds? Well, who knows but all worth a shot although I expect you have tried already.

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - stacey (24th Jul 2015 - 10:12:13) It was disappointing that no one from Hampshire County Council was there, after all some of the problems emenate from the storm drains/gulleys which are not cleared out often enough. I was also disappointed that as this was part of the community forum, only 2 councillors on the forum actually sat around the table. I would be interested to read any minutes. Also it was headline news in the Bordon Herald, not even received a mention in Liphook Herald, headline news in the Liphook Herald was Developer puzzled at rejection of his development in the Park. Really? was that not last weeks headline? I expect the Reporter did not want to mention the conflict between pressure on the sewage system, and any new housing at Bohunt onto the same page!

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - Trevor Maroney (24th Jul 2015 - 12:06:38) My feedback to Cllr Yvonne Parker-Smith on the meeting. Dear Cllr. Parker-Smith Community Forum on Drains – Feedback Thank you for laying on the Community Forum last night. Sadly I felt that the topic and format was badly conceived, lacked even cursory research and speakers, had no clearly defined aim or objective, was promoted at the last minute without any prior consultation with either the Parish Council or the Parish Plan Steering Group and left everybody feeling that the local authority were apply sticking plasters to what is a very serious issue. Flooding, particularly raw sewage on the streets of Liphook and surrounding hamlets, needs addressing. The meeting did not do EHDC’s image any good. Perhaps I should explain in more detail. I am chairman of the Parish Plan and a parish councillor. On the former I have spent 4 years working on the Plan and infrastructure. I have spoken to the families most affected on numerous occasions. I have asked for Cllr. Cowper’s help but, sadly, nothing has been achieved. EHDC is well aware of what we have achieved and, more importantly the amount of knowledge I have. It was of little surprise to me that Mark Matthews from Thames Water could answer almost all the questions, I have been liaising with him over the past 18 months. Despite his knowledge he has no power to make any difference. Those directly affected by flooding spoke to him at last November’s Parish Plan Exhibition – last night he just gave the audience, in essence, the same answers. You should also be aware that the Parish Council held a technical meeting with Thames Water on this very subject last November, attended by technical representatives from developers and action groups. EHDC were invited to send a representative but declined. The minutes of that meeting were widely circulated and a copy was sent to the organiser on 14th July, which I had hoped district councillors would have read before they arrived. I also advertised the Forum on Liphook Talkback even listing the various well known areas of flooding. I partially read out some of them last night before you stopped me. As you heard last night some of the problems and most of the answers related to storm water entering the sewage system. As usual, they were aptly deflected by Thames Water to HCC’s Highway’s Department since it is the lead authority on flood prevention. I did warn EHDC about the likelihood of this happening; I told them that it was essential that HCC provided a representative to answer questions. This failing immediately disenfranchised many in the audience. I strongly recommend that you plan these meetings in more detail well in advance and: 1. Don't just make quotes like “the Liphook community asked for this meeting” without first speaking to the Town or Parish Council and any group representing particular interests. We didn't ask for it, a meeting with yourselves would have been more appropriate. 2. Set an aim and/or objectives well before the meeting. I thought that you were going to surprise me and take flooding seriously by offering to consider funding a drainage study, which is what the community really needs. You offered nothing, not even hope to those suffering – alarms fitted in manholes, raw sewage being pumped onto our streets, front doors permanently sealed up, house insurance bills of £2,500, would you be happy with that? 3. Always provide a speaker on thorny issues like this. Going straight to questions without setting the scene and making everyone aware of all known issues just divided the audience and limited their awareness of other serious flooding areas. Had you asked, I would certainly have spoken. 4. Ensure that you have a full panel able to answer every possible question. Without someone from HCC half the questions weren't answered to anyone’s satisfaction, and it enabled Thames Water to deflect some of the blame. 5. Give the public plenty of warning so that they can come prepared. I was only made aware of the meeting on 9th July when I received your Business News Update. I immediately advertised it on Talkback and within one minute I received a call from the manager of the Millennium Centre asking what it was all about; she hadn't even got a hall booking for the Forum! Luckily it was available. I am no expert, but what I have covered is, to my mind, some of the basic requirements for running a successful meeting. I sincerely hope that I will not have to go through one like that again. Yours sincerely Cllr. Trevor Maroney Chairman Bramshott & Liphook Parish Plan Tel: 01428 725193 21st July 2015

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - Trevor Maroney (24th Jul 2015 - 14:55:09) By now some of you will have read the unbalanced, front page article on drains published in yesterday's Bordon Herald. To redress the balance I have asked the editor to post my feedback letter - see above. What isn't acknowledged in the Herald article or my feedback is the community's request for two urgent studies: 1. An independent study into the existing drainage systems to establish why they are not capable of taking the current waste. 2. A survey of the drains to find out where stormwater is entering the foul drainage system. In my meetings with Thames Water it was agreed in principle that these studies are needed but they were reluctant to pay for them. As those of you that were at Monday night's meeting will know, the EHDC chairman refused to accept the request for these essential studies. She could not consider them, I believe is what she said. In my professional opinion such studies would reveal that parts of the existing system is very old and worn out with rainwater seeping in through breaks caused by tree roots. Furthermore, the main pipe sizes (6") are far too small for the existing load. These would need to be replaced before any additional development takes place. This is something which EHDC, which could easily fund these studies, are very reluctant to acknowledge as it would stifle housing development. Look no further than the Bohunt Manor proposal to site a sewage farm alongside Portsmouth Road because GVI know that the existing drainage infrastructure cannot cope. It would seem that our district councillors, who were very quiet at the meeting, are willing to accept Thames Water's evasive answers and leave those suffering in the lurch. Not one of them spoke up for the sufferers. This, it would seem, is their price for progress; it's not mine! We do need to make our voices heard and not let EHDC evade their responsibilities by manipulating the press.

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - liz (24th Jul 2015 - 16:04:58) EHDC's attitude may be appalling arrogance - but I think it is Thames Water's responsibility to pay for the studies and also to keep the sewerage system at an acceptable standard. This is why I think it is worth sending your information to Ofwat - if you haven't already. Doesn't Environmental Health come into this somewhere? Leaking sewage is health risk obviously.

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - Trevor Maroney (26th Jul 2015 - 11:42:43) Having read the article on 'Drain Strain' on the front page of the Bordon Herald again I am astonished to note that all the quotes on how well the meeting took place are from district councillors and members of the panel and NONE from the audience. What a astonishing piece of journalism! I have taken Liz's suggestion on board and have now put in a complaint about Thames Water's and EHDC's failure to address the serious drainage issues to OFWAT. As sufferers will know, it is time that these issues were addressed properly. Chairman BLPP

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - dawn (26th Jul 2015 - 13:28:01) Astonishing journalism - how polite you are!!!!

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - Dyno Rob (29th Jul 2015 - 13:50:38) I doubt that we can expect very much of the Herald, after all and at 50p per copy the Liphook Herald isn't ever going to attract Fleet Street's Finest (nor does it). Our district councillors are out of their depth, again. Trevor - Clearly EHDC isn't going to fund the sort of technical study that you consider is needed, but could we in the parish find the money I wonder? You may have an idea of the likely cost (?). I wonder whether the PC might stump up at least some of the cost, and might it be feasible to gather the remainder by say public subscription..? Just a thought.

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - liz (29th Jul 2015 - 15:37:27) Ultimately I think Thames are responsible for providing adequate sewerage systems so presumably also for any studies required. They will try and wriggle out of course if they think they can get someone else to pay!

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - Andrew (30th Jul 2015 - 12:02:01) Denetech have been surveying the drainage system in the Griggs Green area for the last few weeks. This is on behalf of Thames Water apparently. It was their survey team that discovered the leak on the rising main which is why the tankers are running.

Re: Meeting on Drains - 20th July - Bill Ratcliffe (30th Jul 2015 - 14:01:18) For the past 3 weeks, there have been tankers emptying raw sewage into the drains in Longmoor Road all hours of the day and night. The raw sewage is being spilt all over the road. The Environmental Health Officer at the EHDC has no powers over another regulatory authority and can do nothing about the sewage spill, noise of the tankers running or the inconvenience of blocked driveways. Despite numerous phone call to Thames Water, there is no indication for how long this operation will continue.

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