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Run over pigeon - Nadine (12th Jun 2015 - 14:16:26) To the hideous person who wantonly drove in to a pigeon on the London Road around 12pm today, I just thought I would tell you what happened afterwards... It flew in to air and I hoped it was just stunned, but it then dropped down like a stone, bounced on the roof of a van and lay in the road. It then, thankfully, got put out of its misery. I hope you're proud of yourself.

Re: Run over pigeon - A. Ryan (12th Jun 2015 - 14:32:49) It seems to be the same with the hedgehogs. If you are keeping to the speed limit how do you not notice a hedgehog in the middle of the road, they are not cats who are liable to dash in front of you. There are some unsavoury people around.

Re: Run over pigeon - Eddie (12th Jun 2015 - 16:21:05) it's just a tree rat, they are not exactly an endangered species.

Re: Run over pigeon - Nadine (12th Jun 2015 - 17:22:03) You're not an endangered species either Eddie but I'm sure you would object to such an unnecessarily violent death.... Hi Nadine, I'm confused, did the car deliberately swerve to hit the pigeon then.

Re: Run over pigeon - Nadine (12th Jun 2015 - 17:32:12) Made no attempt to avoid it sadly. Would it have been safe for the vehicle to brake hard or swerve to avoid the pigeon without the risk of causing an accident? To be honest In my opinion most people would not risk trying to avoid a pigeon.

Re: Run over pigeon - D (12th Jun 2015 - 18:05:04) Ed - Well said. Was CPR given by the obviously badly shocked onlooker?

Re: Run over pigeon - nadine (12th Jun 2015 - 18:13:23) I do see what you mean but this was not the situation. It was a 30 speed zone and pigeons are not exactly quick, like a squirrel say, that will dash out and catch you unawares. You have plenty of notice to see them sitting there, they are a bit lazy and all you need to do is slow a little and they will eventually fly away. This poor creature did not get treated kindly. And every creature deserves to be treated kindly.

Re: Run over pigeon - Katy Patterdale (12th Jun 2015 - 18:47:02) Seriously Nadine you come onto liphook talkback to tell us about a run over pigeon! Has the world gone mad, don't people have anything better to do with there time nowadays?

Re: Run over pigeon - B Hinds (12th Jun 2015 - 19:12:19) Total rubbish Ed. Any decent human by instinct would at least brake and try to avoid an animal. We will give this driver the benefit of the doubt and suggest he or she had no time to react to avoid the bird.

Re: Run over pigeon - Nadine (12th Jun 2015 - 19:37:52) Clearly Katy Patterdale, your life is as dull as mine then..

Re: Run over pigeon - suz (12th Jun 2015 - 20:38:06) If I see a pigeon on the road ahead I simply sound the horn and the noise sends it immediately off into the air. Easy. I agree we should all try to protect wildlife especially hedgehogs which are now becoming endangered.

Re: Run over pigeon - Ann Boid (13th Jun 2015 - 10:06:04) I think Nadine sounds a compassionate and caring person and to see a driver behave in the way she describes must have been upsetting. It would have upset me too, even more so as the pigeon was not killed outright. It is quite true that pigeons are sometimes slow to get out of the way of oncoming traffic and so are blackbirds (now voted out 3rd most popular native bird) but that doesn't mean a driver can't slow down or has been suggested hoot a warning. I am not suggesting that they do an emergency stop although most people's instinct would be to do this to avoid hitting an animal, just slow down gently thereby not endangering other road users. To Katy Patterdale I would say that if you cannot care for the small things that happen in life you probably won't care about the larger and to belittle someone who obviously does care does not present an edifying picture of the person posting. To EddieI I would respond that no of course pigeons are not an endangered species. Also some peope do regard pigeons as a pest, but that does not give anyone the right to cause unnecessary suffering. The biggest and worse threat to our planet and all those species of plants and animals that inhabit it are us - human beings. Google The Passenger Pigeon - at one time there were an estimated 3 to 5 billion of them in the US and us humans eradicated them from the planet by hunting them for food and destroying their habitat. The last one called Martha died on 1 September 1914. I think she was being kept in captivity in the hope that a male Passenger Pigeon would be found. As human beings we have a lot be ashamed about and it starts with the smallest and apparently to some, insignificant incidents. The problem Ann is where do you stop ? That ant you accidently stepped and killed makes you as bad as the driver of the car, in your own eyes, surely ?

Re: Run over pigeon - Chris (13th Jun 2015 - 10:26:32) Some of the responses to this post are disgraceful! A sad indictment of our selfish society. Why wouldn't you care about the demise of another living thing? Mind you, the way we humans treat each other on a daily basis is poor, so what chance does the humble pigeon stand - or any of the other animals found dead on our roads?

Re: Run over pigeon - Nadine (13th Jun 2015 - 11:02:12) Thank you Ann, you have understood my post. Editor - of course we can't all avoid that ant, but we don't need to be unnecessarily unkind either.

Re: Run over pigeon - A. Ryan (13th Jun 2015 - 12:34:54) Editor You really are being rather pedantic over this issue. I think caring as opposed to not caring is a far better trait to have. The virtue of Nadine and some other poster's should be applauded.

Re: Run over pigeon - Ian (13th Jun 2015 - 13:20:11) This really is a pathetic post and it really annoys me when the tree hugging, badger and fox loving fraternity think that anyone who disagrees with their over developed sense of compassion to all living things are heartless monsters. Life is cruel, animals get killed on the roads, I'm sure the motorist did not even see the pigeon. Our very existence as a species is cruel on so many levels to others, we eat them, we ride them, we domesticate them, that is life I'm afraid. Just because I and others don't get tearful and emotianal about a dead pigeon doesnt mean I am any less caring or compassionate than you, I just have different priorities. I think there are far more inhuman things being done in the world to get indignant and angry about like the 1000's of kids dying in Syria at the moment so let's put some perspective on this.

Re: Run over pigeon - kayleigh (13th Jun 2015 - 13:57:32) yes In most peoples eyes a pigeon is a pest...! I was stood outside my flat the other day and a car came up to the roundabout slowed down as a pigeon was near junction, he got about 1ft-1.5ft away from it and it only then thought about flying away...it still got hit by the mans 'grill/bumper' it did though fly away and seemed ok...? the driver also had cars behind him. most drivers DONT keep to speed limits around the village so is no shock to hear about the poor pigeon you saw...? all animals are living just like you and I...don't mean its ok for someone to break the law (speeding) and in turn kill something because of their actions...!

Re: Run over pigeon - Keith (13th Jun 2015 - 14:52:10) Sometimes reading Talkback is like landing on another planet. Shock news - a car hit a pigeon and it dies.....stop the front page! While I agree the driver should have slowed down if he/she could do so safely, for all those who are complaining, presumably when the weather's warm you don't drive at all, after all think of all those flies who die when they smack into your windscreen at 30mph or the moths who do the same when they are fatally attracted to your headlights at night. Or is that a pigeon's life is some how more valuable than a fly, an ant or a moth? - oh and let's not forget the slugs who die a painful death when they fall victim to your slug pellets (although presumably the ones who drown in beer do at least have a couple of happy minutes before it consumes them) As the editor says, where do you draw the line?

Re: Run over pigeon - Rachel (13th Jun 2015 - 22:34:11) Nadine I am so sorry you had to witness the painful (yes animals DO feel pain!)killing of the poor pigeon. You were rightly upset and not one person has appreciated that fact! If someone witnesses an animal being killed in our village when it could have been avoided, then why should that person not talk about the matter on the village forum? Before you start having a go at me, yes I am an animal lover, no, I do not eat any of them, and yes I do stop to pick up worms that are on a path and put them back on the earth! I also do not drive a car. Call me a tree hugging, Badger loving hippy if you like, I am proud of it :-)

Re: Run over pigeon - Ann Boid (14th Jun 2015 - 18:46:30) Editor I think you are missing my point which is killing or harming an animal by an undavoidable accident whether it be an ant or an elephant is quite different from killing and harming an animal deliberately, if indeed that is what the driver did when he ran over the pigeon. To Ian I would say yes what is happening in many parts of the world are terrible and not just in Syria, but these are tragedies caused solely by mankind. If humans were more compassionate and caring in their daily life there would be no wars, hunger or misery. You cannot chose what you are compassionate about - you either are or you are not and as I said before it starts with the small things. Only that way can then the larger things be addressed. Animals feel pain as we do and they have a pretty thin time sharing this planet with us.

Re: Run over pigeon - Val (15th Jun 2015 - 13:44:50) I fully support Nadine and Ann. I give below a quote from Mahatma Ghandi "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated". Says it all really.

Re: Run over pigeon - Natalie (15th Jun 2015 - 16:08:57) Seriously how does Nadine' s post effect any of you trolls? Did she ask for feedback or advice? Sorry that you had to witness that Nadine. I like pigeons, rats, foxs all of the poor animals that keep getting slated on this site. Shame there's nasty pointless people out there. Unfortunately on the roads and apparently on this site too.

Re: Run over pigeon - Mark (15th Jun 2015 - 16:47:43) What would the comments be if a driver had hit another car, and injured the driver / passengers ... because they were swerving to avoid a pigeon? Something like this happening is never going to be nice, but I'd rather the driver kept control of their vehicle and didn't risk a serious accident. Mark

Re: Run over pigeon - Val (15th Jun 2015 - 17:10:03) Mark. It wasn't a question of swerving to avoid the pigeon. Nadine's post was quite clear. It appeared to me when I read her post that the car made no attempt even to slow down a little. So please don't twist things to make people who do care about the seemingly uncaring attitude of some human beings. Of course no one would want a driver to swerve to avoid hitting a pigeon and thereby possibly causing an accident. That is just common sense, so don't try to muddy the waters. A great many humans are uncaring about the way animals are treated and that is why there are a growing number of people becoming vegetarian, not just because animals are killed for food, but because of the foul way some are kept and then slaughtered. This post about the pigeon may seem irrelevant and unimportant to some, but not to me and I am not a boring person with nothing to do. I have a full time job and a family. This post just mirrors and emphasises how us humans who have rights misuse this power to the detriment of the animal kingdom and our planet. Hence my quote from Mahatma Ghandi one of the wisest people ever born.

Re: Run over pigeon - IGS (15th Jun 2015 - 17:35:51) Natalie. If you post on a site like Talkback you are going to get contributions and opinions whether they are invited or not. And I really do think you are overreacting by calling those who do not agree with Nadine Trolls. If you are going to put your personal views out there to the public don't get all prissy and offended when you find that not everyone agrees with you. And for the record, I do not necessarily disagree with the sentiment of Nadine's original post.

Re: Run over pigeon - Val (16th Jun 2015 - 13:29:16) IGS Natalie is no more over-reacting by calling people who disagree with Nadine's post "trolls" than Ian is when he says and I quote: "This really is a pathetic post and it really annoys me when the tree hugging, badger and fox loving fraternity think that anyone who disagrees with their over developed sense of compassion to all living things are heartless monsters" He compounds his intolerance by calling Nadine's post "pathetic which is very insulting. No one has called anyone a heartless monster, just pointed out that animals and the planet have a pretty raw deal at the hands of human beings.

Re: Run over pigeon - toby (17th Jun 2015 - 06:41:26) its a pigeon there is thousands off them what a total waste of a post they gas hundreads of them every day in London and people eat them god get a life people

Re: Run over pigeon - Ann Boid (17th Jun 2015 - 09:08:05) Your post Toby really sums up what is wrong with the way our world is going. Read the other posts - read Ghandi's quote - note that it is the posts that disagree with Nadine that have the most insulting comments.. Look at the bigger picture and think outside your box and see what is hapening to this planet. What is being revealed in this post is that the incident of the pigeon is the catalyst not the cause generating these posts. I suggest you get a life.

Re: Run over pigeon - liz (19th Jun 2015 - 11:31:46) I seems odd to me that people should get stroppy with Nadine for caring. If they don't care about the wildlife then surely the post would have left them disinterested at worst. .. But then they do say that people who are unkind to animals tend to be unkind to people too!

Re: Run over pigeon - dave (20th Jun 2015 - 08:01:52) i think that the person that run it over should be up before the beak in the morning!

Re: Run over pigeon - ellie (20th Jun 2015 - 10:02:21) The cynic in me says that the unsympathetic posts are all from men, and the sympathetic ones all from women. Does that say something about human nature in general? do women have more emotional empathy? does society value compassion as a virtue? Although some people may say a lot of fuss over a pigeon, hedgehogs are now an endangered species. The last time I saw one it was squashed under a car.

Re: Run over pigeon - Lizzy (20th Jun 2015 - 16:01:27) Why did the hedgehog cross the road? 'Cos he wanted to see his flat-mate!

Re: Run over pigeon - Rachel (20th Jun 2015 - 22:24:43) That was not funny! Hedgehogs have declined in the UK by 97% It will not be long before they are gone all together and our grandchildren will only hear stories of how the little hedgehog used to fuss about in granny’s back garden every evening keeping the slugs under control.

Re: Run over pigeon - Keith (21st Jun 2015 - 11:12:32) Good grief! _ it was a joke! If talkback is representative of the people of Liphook, then I think a new road sign is in order: Welcome to Liphook - the place that humour came to die

Re: Run over pigeon - J (23rd Jun 2015 - 14:26:27) Hedgehogs are in decline because badgers are eating them. Regarding the pigeon, it is technically illegal to swerve, brake or perform an emergency stop for small animals, or where not safe to do so. The driver was correct in their action. Any evasive actions (including those that result in an accident or injury) would place the driver in a liable position. Additionally, the driver might put themselves in danger by going back in to the road to ask the pigeon if it was okay ... or not. Please refer to The Highway Code.

Re: Run over pigeon - Julie (23rd Jun 2015 - 16:07:41) Badgers do eat hedgehogs occasionally but that is not their preferred diet and certainly not the reason for their decline! Whether it is decline, extinction or over-population due to introductions, impact on species and habitats is generally attributable to humans. We are the only species not governed by self-regulation and we are frankly making a complete mess of this planet. Nadine saw death at first hand and it is shocking. Probably better for the soul to concentrate on one small incident though than try to take on board what is happening on a world wide scale.

Re: Run over pigeon - Keith (23rd Jun 2015 - 16:45:57) Julie Not sure I get your point on "we are the only species not governed by self-regulation". Surely for most species (if not all) the thing that governs them is available food supply and availability of suitable mates - if both of those are there in abundance then the species will procreate and grow, whether it is ants, rats, humans or any other species. A pride of lions doesn't get to a certain size and then stop growing by 'self-regulation', it stops growing as the available food supply limits the size the pride can grow to without some of its number starving to death. The same is true of humans, ultimately we are governed by available food supply and one day, the population of the world will exceed the food available and the population at that point will by necessity need to stop growing.

Re: Run over pigeon - Ann Boid (23rd Jun 2015 - 18:51:06) J, I think if you read Nadine's original post you will see that not only did the driver not slow down but just drove straight at the pigeon. No one has suggested that drivers should swerve or do an emergency stop thus endangering human life, so I think your suggestion the Highway Code should be studied is very patronising. If cars are observing the speed limit in built up areas they can usually slow down without endangering life and limb and this incident was in a built up area. Keith, I think your post is probably the most stupid post I have ever read. I understood exactly what Julie meant. She meant we do not self regulate ourselves and we don't. We breed indiscrimately in many parts of the world and this has nothing to do with food supply or anything else. In the so called civilised world people over-eat causing obesity, they smoke even though they know it will probably cause lung cancer, they drink too much. Admittedly not everyone does but humans by and large are indisciplined and selfish. Education is the only way forward and the answer to prevent this planet being destroyed. To support my views I quote below two statistics – I could quote many more but these two will suffice: North Korea The total population in North Korea was last recorded at 24.9 million people in 2013 from 11.4 million in 1960, changing 118 percent during the last 50 years. Population in North Korea averaged 18.93 from 1960 until 2013, reaching an all time high of 24.90 in December of 2013 and a record low of 11.42 in December of 1960. The majority of the people in North Korea are starving. India 17.5% of the world's population, India is projected to be the world's most populous country by 2025, surpassing China, its population reaching 1.6 billion by 2050. The majority of its people are below the poverty level and there is not enough food to go round. It is true that in these countries the death rate is high and life expectancy is short but there is no self regulation. Hope you understand this now Keith.

Re: Run over pigeon - Keith (23rd Jun 2015 - 21:59:31) Ann I wasn't trying to argue that we were any good at self-regulation, my point was that no species of animal on the planet is governed by self-regulation (unless you know something I don't) - so if you can name a species of animal that is governed by self-regulation, and give an example of how it does this - please fire away

Re: Run over pigeon - Thomas (24th Jun 2015 - 02:55:48) Anne, Keith is right. Animals do not self-regulate. Your comments are based on the fallacy that has been promoted by the powerful for centuries, i.e. that mankind is inherently bad, weak, sinful, immoral and evil, and the cause of all misery on the planet. There is an unspoken implication that the rest of nature is innocent and exists in harmony and balance. The irony is that the violent, brutal killing and predation leading to indescribable suffering which goes on everywhere in nature every day and night, is considered to be ‘harmony and balance’. 99.9% of all species have gone extinct since the Cambrian explosion and the vast majority of this happened prior to Man’s existence. Yes some of Man’s actions are currently having a negative impact on the earth, but as a species many of us are also working on improving that. Your comment was \"....humans by and large are indisciplined (sic) and selfish\". Yes humans can be despicable but many are also capable of great self-sacrifice, love and altruism towards each other and towards other species. Insects, birds, fish, reptiles, mammals and other creatures on the other hand, are focused on their own survival and the survival of their genes with no regard to the wellbeing of others. If you have a garden or even a window box, there is more violence and brutality going on there every day than in any human war. May I also respectfully point out that a little self- regulation on your part would be welcome…..even if you thought that Keith’s comments were “probably the most stupid post” you have ever read, there is no need to be rude to him by saying so – not only does it break the posting guidelines on this forum, but intelligent debate is spoiled by ad hominem attacks.

Re: Run over pigeon - Rachel (24th Jun 2015 - 09:49:36) Studies have been conducted on rabbits that live on am isolated island. The results of this study showed the rabbits did in fact self regulate by ceasing to reproduce for a period of time when the island population had reached maximum. After a quick Google search I was unable to verify this statement - please provide a definitive link to information about any one of the studies. I found other stories - Breeding like rabbits! Thousands of bunnies that are 'eating away a Scottish island' will be culled. Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/...

Re: Run over pigeon - stacey (24th Jun 2015 - 09:55:01) I am not commenting on the rights or wrongs of this debate, but there seems to be no moderator who checks whether a posting offends or not. I have seen plenty of instances of posters being rude on here, people also are not always 100 percent truthful, in order to manipulate others. Rudeness as well is very subjective. I find it rude if people use bad language, but some people do not see what I think of as bad language in the same way that they do.

Re: Run over pigeon - Rachel (24th Jun 2015 - 11:31:57) I can assure you the study exists! A book was written about it which I read also there was a TV documentary about said study.

Re: Run over pigeon - Keith (24th Jun 2015 - 13:34:24) It would appear that Rachel is correct - not sure if this is the study she is referring to, but this article would appear to argue that some (but by no means all) species of mammals do self-regulate ckwri.tamuk.edu/fileadmin/user_upload/...

Re: Run over pigeon - Thomas (24th Jun 2015 - 15:20:57) Rachel, I am sure the study you referred to exists, but I think it misses the point. It's widely known that the population size of many animals including humans is regulated by natural means, including factors such as availability of food, habitat, mates, predators, natural disasters, toxity of the environment etc. But the point is that this is not SELF regulation in the sense of conscious choice. Rabbits don’t think, “oh dear we are getting overpopulated, we’d better start using contraception”! It’s a process which results from millions of years of evolution. Humans also become infertile when deprived of food. In our affluent western culture we rarely see the evidence except in anorexic women who cease menstruation, but in famine conditions,its common.. In the modern world, humans self-regulate populations by choosing to only have 2.4 children for financial reasons, or by making laws, as in China. Incidentally Anne’s point about N Korea is disputable; see worldpopulationreview.com/countries/north-korea-population which states that N Korea is one of the slowest growing countries in the world in terms of population, in spite of government initiatives to improve matters. I view this discussion as basically a clash of opinions between those who believe that animals are superior to evil humans and see Nature as good, beneficent and admirable and those who look more realistically at the fact that Nature is, in the main brutal and violent, lacking in compassion. Humans are imperfect but painfully slowly, humanity is making positive progress towards more compassion. The “wicked” human who apparently deliberately killed the innocent pigeon is being used as an example of how the former group see humanity in general. We humans are also animals, the only difference between us and other species is that our brains have evolved with a little more complexity and self-awareness. This has allowed us to make conscious choices to attempt to control our baser instincts. I would personally not want to kill a bird or any sentient animal, but my neighbours cats do it all the time with no guilt. We go to war and despoil rain forests but as a species, we also train doctors, build hospitals, care for our senior citizens, spend money on our pets, have campaigns against animal cruelty and make laws to try to make life better for the majority of humans and animals. The implication in some posts above is that if you could take selfish unregulated humans out of the equation, the planet would somehow be a better place. But inevitably another strong predator almost certainly less empathetic to other species than humans would take over. Unfortunately many people have a saccharine view of nature as promoted by Disney films such as the Lion King with its excusal of Simba hunting and eating antelopes because its all part of the apparently wonderful and magical 'Circle of Life'. The reality is that the circle of life is brutal and many wild animals live in constant fear and die horrible premature deaths. Without humans, there would be no internet debate about the loss of a pigeon, they might all be extinct as their size, lack of speed and poor flying ability makes them an easy meal for a predator.

Re: Run over pigeon - Ian (24th Jun 2015 - 18:46:15) Nicely put Thomas but you will never convince the tree huggers that the life of a human is of more value than that of a pigeon, badger, fox hedgehog, dolphin, etc. I accept this statement is provocative but I abhor mindless violence and cruelty to animals, I am anti hunt, i do not approve of shooting for pleasure and i believe those that are convicted of cruelty to domestic pets should face severe penalties. BUT I cannot accept the life of any animal is as meaningful and important as that of a human.

Re: Run over pigeon - dave mc grath (24th Jun 2015 - 19:14:55) Editor! With the greatest respect i cannot believe how far off track this thread has gone! The pidgeon is dead end of story rip.(including this thread!)

Re: Run over pigeon - Nadine (24th Jun 2015 - 22:37:41) You're right, it has taken a few twists and turns. I never once suggested that a human should risk his/her life to save the pigeon. My whole point was that it is unkind to kill anything /anyone /human /animal UNNECCESSARILY. And that driver had every opportunity to miss the pigeon. I know, I was there. Many comments (commentators???) saw my point - but many missed it. That says more about them than it says about me. They can't read.

Re: Run over pigeon - Val (25th Jun 2015 - 14:26:31) Nadine, I couldn't have put that better – your post says it all really. Ellie, your point about most unsympathetic posts come from men on this Thread is very true. The only unsympathetic post was from Katy Patterdale unless of course some of the "initialled" posts are women. Keith, it depends what you mean by self-regulation. It is well known that species such as gorillas, pandas, and I am sure other wild creatures do not reproduce well in captivity in spite of every effort made by man or if they do, they either abandon or harm the baby, sometimes fatally. I am not an expert but I would call this a sort of self regulation. In other words they know that they are in an unnatural environment and do not want to pro-create their kind. On the other hand we see distressing images on the news of mothers of newborns in Third World Countries literally having to watch them starve to death as they do not have the means to feed them ie lack of their breast milk through malnutrition. Yet they still reproduce. That to me illustrates that while some human beings may self regulate, not all do.

Re: Run over pigeon - tony (25th Jun 2015 - 16:45:20) Val you win today's prize for irony when you said "Nadine, I couldn't have put that better – your post says it all really." Then you went on two hundred word rant about men, irresponsible mothers and famines in Africa, I think, but you lost me there!

Re: Run over pigeon - Val (25th Jun 2015 - 17:42:35) It's quite simple really Tony. All I said was: 1. That nearly all the unsympathetic posts on this Thread have been from men – not a rant just a statement. 2. That there were women in Third World countries producing babies they could not feed. I didn't use the word "irresponsible". I was just making a what I perceive to be a true statement in order to demonstrate that not all humans self regulate and not all animals do not. I am sorry that you did not understand that but perhaps if you read the previous posts you will. I also agree that this Thread has become the discussion and debate of wider issues, but what is wrong with that? At least it makes people think and no one is being forced to join in.

Re: Run over pigeon - ellie (25th Jun 2015 - 18:33:10) Hi Tony, I think you are over reacting, saying that the postings from men were mainly unsympathetic, does not mean any one "ranted" at men. It happens to be true and if you read the postings you will see it. Just because someone has empathy with animal suffering, does not mean they hate humans. Probably the reverse, it shows compassion, and if that is towards people or animals then it is always a good characteristic. We are predators of all animals, we use whatever means neccessary to either hunt the bigger species, for our own use or pleasure, and manage to kill off the smaller by using too many chemicals in the eco system. They need our protection.

Re: Run over pigeon - Thomas (25th Jun 2015 - 19:37:34) Agreed that this thread has gone off topic, but I am grateful to the Editor for allowing this, it\'s the nature of a good discussion that people\'s thoughts tangent off! And at least it\'s more interesting and intellectually stimulating than the usual "sofa for sale / missing cat / handyman wanted" threads, useful though these are. I enjoy controversial discussion topics on here, but it would help if posters appreciated that just because someone has a differing point of view, it doesn't mean you need to be rude. Suggesting that people are stupid or \"cant read\" simply because they don\'t positively affirm your point of view is disrespectful, and doesn\'t help to forward the debate.. It's important to care about wildlife but also important to care about the feelings of our fellow humans too.

Re: Run over pigeon - Keith (25th Jun 2015 - 21:09:58) Val Can I suggest you read the document I posted a link to yesterday. In its entirety. It is a demanding read in places but I think you will find it explains the reasons for both the zoo animal scenario and the third world starvation scenario.

Re: Run over pigeon - Lizzy (25th Jun 2015 - 23:09:53) Two snakes are in the jungle and one of them says "Pssssst, I've forgotten, are we poisonous?" The other snake says "Why?" "Well, it's nothing really" says the first snake, "but I've just bitten my tongue".

Re: Run over pigeon - Thimas (26th Jun 2015 - 02:30:26) Lizzy, very funny! Keith, Sorry for the off topic tangent, but I read the article you linked to… a very interesting theory, particularly the suggestion that reproductive suppression may in part be an adaptive response to the threat of infanticide. It seems that even the experts don't know for certain what causes this kind of self regulation in animals, although the theory presented sounds very plausible.. It's clear however that the word 'self-regulation' means something entirely different when used in the context of instinctive animal behaviour than when referring to a lack of will power or self control in humans.

Re: Run over pigeon - J (26th Jun 2015 - 18:12:21) Hi all the posts make interesting reading and give varied opinions. However I have to observe some are taking the initial point far outside the original comment. Unfortunately I also witnessed a horrible incident on the old A3 south of the traffic lights. A pigeon was in the road taking it\'s time to get out of the way and I slowed down,no one was behind me anywhere in sight. Another car coming in the opposite direction also had no one behind anywhere at all, I flashed to warn something in the road which actually was clearly visible anyway but their reaction was to accelerate and smash into the pigeon I only saw feathers it was awful I mean deliberately awful. There was no one else around after either car. They just roared off and I was pretty upset really. There was nothing I could do and it was unecessary. I could only reason plenty of pigeons but it did make me wonder what kind of person would do that.

Re: Run over pigeon - Nadine (26th Jun 2015 - 23:21:02) That's such a horrid thing to see J....that would have upset me too. Mindless behaviour. I am happy to say that this thread has really encouraged conversation and debate - only beaten, seemingly, by other threads about the council. So let's hope we have raised awareness - and maybe, just maybe, we have saved a pigeon or two. Here's to all the tree hugging hippies of the village!

Re: Run over pigeon - Lizzy (27th Jun 2015 - 00:19:07) How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb? Only one, but, the light bulb has to really, really, REALLY want to change.

Re: Run over pigeon - A. Ryan (4th Jul 2015 - 10:19:42) I do so hope Karma has it's way with the woman who ploughed through the group of pigeons in Sainsburys car park at 4.20pm yesterday.You did not even slow down. You did not even flinch when your wheel ran over one. My daughter and I were watching them when this happened. The pigeon did not die straight away but died after I picked it up. I shouted after you but you were oblivious. You may even have had children in the car. At this time of day school children are about in Sainsburys. Your lack of care and feelings astound me, and my 19 year old daughter was shaking with the shock of seeing it. I took it home and disposed of it. There is obviously a trait in some humans that is rather disturbing.

Re: Run over pigeon - TIC (4th Jul 2015 - 11:42:43) I saw a cat stalking a pigeon on the Midhurst Road yesterday in broad daylight, it was shocking! Can all cat owners please keep your cats in doors this summer, combined with these terrible humans I'm not sure the pigeon population in Liphook can survive much longer.

Re: Run over pigeon - A. Ryan (4th Jul 2015 - 22:00:23) I do believe there are some people in Liphook lacking in a genome,TIC predominantly being one of them, also their taste in humour is some what lacking . Sick comes to mind .

Re: Run over pigeon - garry neil (4th Jul 2015 - 23:29:44) Ive hit a few moths this evening driving home from having a lovely venison steak!

Re: Run over pigeon - Dave McGrath (5th Jul 2015 - 08:58:16) Confession time guys! I accidentally trod on an ant today! I feel terrible! I was trying to save this b-----y pigeon at the time! Truly sorry, I feel sick!

Re: Run over pigeon - garry neil (5th Jul 2015 - 11:04:15) Dave well done for the confession. You have me questioning my self now how many ants or spiders ive run over as i struggle seeing these insects whilst driving along the old A3

Re: Run over pigeon - Rachael (5th Jul 2015 - 18:10:50) Oh you brutes, the tree huggers are going to really hate you heartless guys now, you are heartless monsters with defective gnomes Broken fishing rods ?

Re: Run over pigeon - liz (6th Jul 2015 - 08:29:00) Some people care, some people don't, it's that simple sadly. Those accused of lacking a genome also seem to lack some thing else, a sense of humour - if they think their comments are in any way funny, original or witty!

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