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This council are doing it again - Steve (30th Mar 2015 - 18:35:16) How much does this Liphook council cost us in wasting money??? On a listing a few weeks ago a Mr Jones said he heard council members talking about the constructed downfall of the manager of the millennium Hall, well guess what he is suspended. How come this is staff number 6 now over the last few years. They lost a case with the other manager of the millennium Hall she had to be paid compassion , Mr Groves they lost that one £130000 in layers costs so far, they are talking about selling the council office in the Midhurst Rd car park. What's that money going to do???? Pay the money owed by the Liphook councillors cock ups??? So why is this manager suspended, a total set up once again, because you had a man that started to make the millennium Hall worth hiring again, a lot cleaner jobs being done and according to Mr Gavin M&S ore to be done if he could get the funding he was promised when he started the job. It seams funny how just a short time ago his downfall was being talked about and now he is suspended. I hope Mr Gavin is back in charge soon or the bookings I was about to make will be going to some other Hall!!!! Support Mr Gavin he is the kind of person Liphook people need working for them!!!!

Re: This council are doing it again - h (30th Mar 2015 - 20:07:08) well said steve did you also know they spent money on hireing a hr person to help them run the council that worked well i also hope that mr cavin is soon back in the chair up at the hall

Re: This council are doing it again - Deedee (30th Mar 2015 - 20:47:14) OMG - I can't believe what I've just read! This amazing chap comes to the Millenium, works his socks off, does his best to oblige every request, never complains and shows true loyalty to the hall and the residents and this is how he is treated. I don't profess to understand the ins and outs of parish council work but I recognise bullies and this behaviour has got to stop. I wish the Millenium could belong to the residents of Liphook and be run by the residents of Liphook and the council and their selfish agendas can stay far away. We have to do something to get Mr Gavin back

Re: This council are doing it again - Rob (30th Mar 2015 - 20:51:36) How do they get away with it???? Its about time Liphook please stood together and don't vote these idiots in. Hope the guy gets back in the hot seat soon!!! My friend had a problem with a tree that was on the councils land Mr Gavin was out the next day and have the problem sorted. Really helpful

Re: This council are doing it again - bob (30th Mar 2015 - 22:14:32) it would be nice to find out who the two council members are who have got it in for this member of staff as the the may election are coming

Re: This council are doing it again - Sarah (30th Mar 2015 - 22:57:14) I have no idea about the original post, and if its true then its very sad. However, if you don't like how things are being run, stand up be counted, and put yourself forward to be on the Parish Council... be an independent (or attached to a party), stand up for Liphook and its residents. In Haslemere there is an independent standing for each seat, their manifesto is to work for Haslemere. How great would that be if those who speak out so often on here would raise their heads and put themselves forward. The fact that the Millennium Centre is run by the Parish Council should mean that it is being run on behalf of Liphook residents. If you are passionate about this (or any other Liphook matter) then contest the seat(s). In any event, make sure you are registered to vote so you can at least influence the outcome (if the seats are contested).

Re: This council are doing it again - bob (31st Mar 2015 - 07:43:12) name and shame so people no who not to vote for iin may

Re: This council are doing it again - Kat (31st Mar 2015 - 10:44:26) Only to be expected. Clearly Mr Gavin doesn't have the sycophantic characteristic that you need to be involved in the current Council. I agree, selling the Haskell Centre to fill the financial black hole created by their past shenanigans, incompetence, and cock ups. If we do not know who they are just don't vote for any that were elected last time. I would start by not voting for Councillors Croucher and Councillor Jerrard, if they stand, as they are the current Chairman and Vice Chairman. They haven't steered the council to do anything for us anyway, except waste lots of money and cause much upset within the community. They need to go. Do we know if ANY new faces are actually willing to stand ? Plenty of noise from people in the past, would be good to see that they have put themselves forward.

Re: This council are doing it again - Keith (31st Mar 2015 - 13:17:00) Just a note to anyone planning to stand for election to the Parish Council this time, you only have until April 9th to get your completed nomination papers returned to EHDC and verified. Bearing in mind that the period April 3-6 is Easter weekend, this does not give you a great deal of time to get your nomination papers completed and submitted (although the good news is that for Parish Council you only need a proposer and seconder). Please note that both your proposer and your seconder must live within the Parish of Liphook and must be on the electoral roll. The necessary forms can be collected from EHDC or can be downloaded from www.easthants.gov.uk/ehdc/Elections.nsf/... Your nomination papers must be submitted by hand to Penns Place and cannot be sent by post

Re: This council are doing it again - j (31st Mar 2015 - 16:04:21) lets hope mr jones will name and shame the parish councilers who were plotting mr gavins downfall

Re: This council are doing it again - Val (31st Mar 2015 - 17:26:47) Who is Mr Jones?

Re: This council are doing it again - bob (31st Mar 2015 - 22:39:05) VAL look at the thread that says the council should go

Re: This council are doing it again - Val (1st Apr 2015 - 14:48:57) The Thread was "Local council should go" dated 22 January. I still wonder who David Jones is. He says in his post that he was recently in a pub (no name) and overheard two members of Liphook council (no names) running down a member of staff who worked for the Millenium Hall and it appeared to him (David Jones) that they were planning his (member of staff's) downfall. I assume that the member of staff was Mr Gavin, the manager who has now been sacked. David Jones finishes his post with "If this member of staff is got ride of, I will give him a letter for the courts to bring the 2 council members and justice done!!!! David Jones." I am wondering if he has indeed carried out this intention. Actions speak louder than words.

Re: This council are doing it again - eve (1st Apr 2015 - 23:13:22) OMG has this man been sacked if so on what grounds ???

Re: This council are doing it again - M (2nd Apr 2015 - 08:55:32) He's been suspended not sacked

Re: This council are doing it again - Johno (2nd Apr 2015 - 16:06:01) More good money being thrown after bad! This council seem to have nothing better to do than get involved in HR messes. What will be their excuse this time?

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (2nd Apr 2015 - 22:58:09) Many of you know that I am no longer a Councillor, having resigned over the way I was treated by a few of my fellow councillors, however I am still largely supportive of this Council and feel that the present incumbents should not be confused with those that they replaced. It is true that there were, historically, a number of pay-outs – but these were made (illegally) by the FORMER council and NOT the present council. It was the present council that challenged the pay-outs. It was the present council that employed outside bodies to conduct investigations and disciplinary to endure they complied fully with the law. (It is true that tax payers paid for these reports and they should have been published. The fact that they have still not been published is very poor as far as transparency goes. If you had seen those reports you would have seen that – far from the Council doing something wrong – it was the Council din something right - reacting to unlawful behaviour, which it was duty bound to stop. So please, do not tar the present Council with the same old brush as the previous one which allowed those pay-outs without due process. I know that there have been a few glaring errors but they are not anywhere as bad as some might paint. It is very poor that councillors were overheard ‘airing their dislikes’ in public. That truly is bad form – but it is human behaviour and I wonder how many of you would moan about your issues over a pint? The reasons for the suspension are not known and this speculation will not be helping the member of staff concerned or the Council, who MUST obey employment law and cannot suspend or even discipline without evidence of some misdemeanour. Let us wait for Mr Gavin to tell us what has happened, until then the matter will be between the employer and the employee.

Re: This council are doing it again - Susie (3rd Apr 2015 - 10:31:03) I think we should have a public debate like the one on last night which could include some questions from the audience. Maybe then people would feel more informed and a part of the council Ownership and transparency is what is lacking in the village, I feel, we the public don't feel in control. On the other hand we are also suffering from apathy and on looking at the attendance of the carnival meeting maybe most people wouldn't turn up!

Re: This council are doing it again - Peter Richardson (3rd Apr 2015 - 12:49:19) I would like to make one point and I am not going to trawl through all the posts and accusations surrounding to alleged misdemeanors of Tony Groves, the then parish clerk. The point I would like to make clear is that HUGE sums of money were paid out by THIS COUNCIL in costs and solicitors fees in order to engineer the dismissal of Tony Groves. So please let us not forget this and there was no transparency or democracy about it at all even though the money spent was taxpayers money.

Re: This council are doing it again - Jane Ives (3rd Apr 2015 - 13:23:31) I am a current parish councillor and I can't get drawn into a staff matter on a public forum. However, in answer to Susie we held the Annual Parish Meeting a couple of weeks ago and only around 6 members of the public came along. There was an opportunity for questions from the public after a report from each committee chairman but none were asked. I would very much like to see, and would encourage, members of the public to come along to meetings so that they can see how business is done and also get to know who the parish councillors are. I would also like to encourage anyone who wishes to stand for parish council to pick up a nomination form from the parish office before the 10th April. I would love to see some new faces around the table.

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (3rd Apr 2015 - 14:23:45) NO SITUATION WAS ENGINEERED. FACT Were you there? Did you witness the assaults? NO YOU WERE NOT. However, the police were - TWICE. So unless you were an actual witness, I don't think you have anything to add.

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (3rd Apr 2015 - 14:35:13) Peter Richardson, Just because someone has told you something, and you want to believe them, it does not make it true. Before you start extolling the virtues of a person, whose actions you CLEARLY know nothing of, you should ask him to read a copy of his reports, both of them! You will look very silly when you see all the witnesses that lined up to say what ACTUALLY happened. Do you think that EVERYONE was lying? It's quite a thick file of people coming forward - does your theory cover all of those people? If you want to start dragging names through he mud – I would check first that ‘your friend’ wants you to air his laundry in public.

Re: This council are doing it again - grenouf (3rd Apr 2015 - 17:39:58) I do not think it is right to have put any of this online as it helps nobody and all it dors is gets peoples backs up the facts will be found and sorted in due course and we should lets those involved have some privacy and respect i doubt if anybody would like the employment troubles to be aired in public?

Re: This council are doing it again - Steve (3rd Apr 2015 - 18:15:38) But everytime they mess up it cost us money!!! £130000 on court costs for Mr Groves ect ect Maybe when they mess up they should pay out there own pockets, things would change then!!!!!

Re: This council are doing it again - Frances White (3rd Apr 2015 - 18:46:34) Well done Gary in your reply. A voice of reason on this site - I wish there were more.

Re: This council are doing it again - Peter Richardson (3rd Apr 2015 - 22:32:59) Dawn I think you are getting the Threads muddled. No one will understand your second post as it is responding to my post in another altogether.

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (4th Apr 2015 - 10:47:40) insert Peter Richardson (3rd Apr 2015 12:49:19) I would like to make one point and I am not going to trawl through all the posts and accusations surrounding to alleged misdemeanors of Tony Groves, the then parish clerk. The point I would like to make clear is that HUGE sums of money were paid out by THIS COUNCIL in costs and solicitors fees in order to engineer the dismissal of Tony Groves. So please let us not forget this and there was no transparency or democracy about it at all even though the money spent was taxpayers money. It is this post to which I respond Mr Richardson. If you want to keep harping back to the horrors of the past - you would do best to find out the facts from the very very many people who had to endure them. You may not like what comes up if you keep kicking the hornets nest! I am heartily sick of people who were not there trying to tell those who were (how it was or how it wasn't). Telling the victims that their abuser's position was somehow 'engineered' away is absurd. IF your friend is happy to tell you otherwise (and for some reason you believe this) then you should ask to read his files to save yourself the embarrassment of making yourself look an idiot. The cost of every bill was published at that time - and that was the first time that had ever happened in the course of the Parish Council. That is what being transparent is about. It was hideous to have to do that but when you have someone threatening to sue you every five minutes the only way to respond is 'absolutely by the book'. It was the PREVIOUS council that made all the illegal payouts and legal payments and covered them up. THAT IS A FACT. the reason no one got 'up in arms' about teh previous council is because no one knew a damn thing! They truly were secret meetings and secret payments - not even other councillors knew about them half the time! You may not like it - but you don't have to like facts - just respect that they happened, they were wrong and the systems were changed.

Re: This council are doing it again - Val (4th Apr 2015 - 12:55:57) Dawn, I am genuinely confused by your posts. In the first post you ask in reply to Peter Richardson's post, whether he witnessed the assaults and go on to say that if he wasn't a witness that you didn't think he had anything to add. Apart from the fact that it really isn't up to you to tell anyone posting on this site what they can and cannot say (that is up to the Editor), Peter made no mention of assaults on this Thread in his post on 3 April – it was about the money spent by the present council in getting rid of Tony Groves. I think the figure of £130,000 has been mentioned in other posts. I assume (and I may be wrong) that in your next post you were responding to Peter's post in the Thread called "Councillor Jerrard – Liphook Councillor on Assault Charge" posted also by Peter on 3 April. However your response, even if it were posted in the correct Thread, still doesn't make sense. You accuse Peter and I quote "of extolling the virtues of a person, whose actions you CLEARLY know nothing of", but I can see nothing where he is extolling the virtues of anyone in either post. Your last sentence and I quote "if you want to start dragging names through the mud – I would check first that 'your friend' wants to air his laundry in public." Who is the friend. The only names Peter mentions in either of his posts apart from Cllr Jerrard's is Tony Groves and David Harvey. What are you talking about and where is your evidence of friendship?

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (5th Apr 2015 - 11:57:11) Val, I apologise if I have confused you, I suppose that is the problem if you respond to particular comment on a post that has many. The recent, and outgoing Councillors had a very very difficult job to do and under very trying circumstances where out every move was subject to legal challenge or judicial review – simply because of the judicious nature of who & what we were dealing with. The fact that everything had to be done by the book meant that professionals had to do it - not because we wanted to spend money (far from it) but because we wanted to avoid the Council being sued if we put one single foot wrong. If there had been one millimetre of room for error, the council would have been in the Tribunal for employment law breaches – even if there had been a mere sniff of wrong behaviour on our part. It is sad that the council had to spend money on investigators and lawyers etc, but to not do so was simply not an option. Any employer / public body faced with a problem must have the courage to grasp the nettle – however awful – and deal with the situation. That was done, and a few individuals (either due to misguided support or their dislike of councillors) have managed to hold vile personal grudges for the actions and evidence of the lawyers, personnel investigators and disciplinary HR ever since that date. They cannot accept the truth (or perhaps have never seen it) and wish to re-victimise the victims over and again. That is why ‘hacks’ and ‘ringers’ on here wish to make labels stick by calling that horrific time as ..past shenanigans & incompetence - as if the fault lay with the employer or the victims and not the perpetrator? Seriously, that's like blaming the dog for being kicked. You know - any employer would love to have happy cooperative staff that don’t threaten to sue everyone every 5 minutes. We didn’t – but that was not a problem of our creation, simply one that had to be dealt with. Sadly, the fact that we were a new broom ‘sweeping clean’ has been used by the ‘Naysayers’ (particularly the anonymous trolls on here), to constantly make low and sniping comments about the councillors that dealt with the situation. I imagine with elections coming up, the Naysayers will be out in force trying to establish that everything we did was somehow an ‘undercover secret plot’ – but I am sick of it. I tell you now, not one single penny – all of which was accounted for & published – was spent on a ‘waste of time’ to ‘upset the community’ so we could artificially ‘engineer’ a dismissal. For the first time in decades, every councillor was fully aware of what was going on, all the sordid facts were on the table, everything was done by full vote and every cost was published. Tell me what is not transparent or democratically correct? Tell me? I am sorry – this post was supposed to be about the current situation – but I find it hard to listen when wrongheaded people - throw the past actions of the Council and the horrible task they were faced with - as some sort of ammunition. As if we did something wrong or incompetent. We did not. What we did RIGHT is tell you about it warts and all. Instead of hiding the longstanding & costly problems, sweeping them under the carpet, ruining people's lives by allowing a continuance. We dealt with it – and told you we were dealing with it. You can’t get more democratic than that. I am not going to let any reference to that time, which is being made with malice, or that tries to blame the council for reacting to the horrible facts it was faced with - pass without challenging it with the truth. It is unacceptable to use it for election bashing at all.

Re: This council are doing it again - Steve (5th Apr 2015 - 12:40:43) The truth!!! was it not true the police said there was no case to answer too for Mr Groves, but the council thinking they were God carried on anyway and lost us Liphook people £130000, they should have to pay every penny back to the Liphook people out of their own pockets!!!

Re: This council are doing it again - Alan Jones (5th Apr 2015 - 12:45:45) Dawn I understand that the current Council inherited a difficult situation and don't dispute that. I also would not dispute that the Council have been open on how money has been spent on these investigations. However, I can't agree with you when you say the Council has been totally transparent vis- Why have the reports produced at considerable public expense never been made public? I appreciate names may need to be redacted but surely given that proviso, the public are entitled to see what they have spent somewhere close to £100,000 to produce? If previous councillors did commit acts that were illegal, why have none of them been brought to court, either through the criminal justice system or by a private prosecution? Much has been made of the man at the centre of these issues being some sort of bullying ogre, yet the Council has not produced any firm evidence of this being the case. And lastly, a survey of your council minutes shows almost every meeting having an exempt session at the end (when press and public are excluded). Only you and your fellow councillors know what was discussed in these sessions, but it does seem odd that your council has had at least 6 times as many of these sessions compared with most neighbouring parish/town councils (and the majority of those councils have had less than 1 per year) - such a number of exempt sessions hardly backs up your assertion of transparency. Did all of these sessions need to be exempt or were they made exempt to prevent press and public learning what was really going on?

Re: This council are doing it again - Kat (5th Apr 2015 - 19:47:49) Dawn, do please tell us who were the “few of my fellow councillors” that treated you so badly you had to resign? Then we will all know who not to vote for if they stand again. A number of councillors had already resigned from this Council before you did, due to the behaviour of their fellow councillors and what they were witnessing! They were obviously no prepared to put up with what was going on any longer. I understand that Councillor Eve Hope was bullied by councillors, some of them trying to force her to do things she did not want to do. She resigned. Perhaps you could tell us all about this,"warts and all". I am sure practising solicitors, barristers, and judges have the knowledge and experience to decide over legality and unlawfulness. I see that the judge in the high court said a report made at a Parish Council meeting that there were civil and criminal proceedings outstanding against a former employee was untrue. So in my opinion we have all been lied to by this Council. You were a councillor at the time. There is a link to the judge’s decision on the “Councillor Jerrard – Liphook Councillor in Court on Assault Charge” thread if you want the evidence. Not surprised that you and your colleagues might be sued if this is the sort of things you got up to. I should think solicitors have been told about your posts already and are watching with interest. So let’s get back to the current situation which is what this post is all about. This first posting on this thread talks of a pay out by this Council to an employee at the Millennium Hall. So, for the sake of openness and transparency how much was that pay out, £15,000, £20,000 or £30,000 or more perhaps? Please tell us when it was made, how much it was, and please could you point out where it is shown in the accounts that you extol the virtues of, and where every payment is recorded. You say that it is “very poor that councillors we overheard “airing their dislikes” in public and “bad form”. I think it is downright disgusting and despicable that councillors were discussing the downfall of an employee in a public place. This is clearly “engineering” the removal of a member of staff. The reason for the suspension is already out. The Council have lost or cannot find or account for public money. This too was being discussed in a public place!!!!!! So let’s hear all about this from the Council. Perhaps Councillor Ives, as a contributor to this thread, could tell us all about how long public money has been missing or un-accounted for. This is very serious but not important enough for the Council to make an immediate statement. And finally, please could you answer the question that Val asked you. Where is your evidence of friendship?

Re: This council are doing it again - Peter Richardson (6th Apr 2015 - 09:48:29) Dawn You are doing it again. Muddling everything up and this post should really be posted on the Thread “Councillor Jerrard – Liphook Councillor in Court on Assault Charge” so for good measure I will put it on both with an additional rider on the Assault Thread. I agree enough harping into the past, let us concentrate on the present. Could you please answer the following really very simple questions? 1. Who is the “friend ? I cannot comment or answer your unfounded accusation if I don’t know who you are talking about. If you can’t or won’t answer please stop referring to my imaginary “friend”. 2. What bunch of papers are you referring to? If they are the papers accumulated by the legal beagles and the councillors who finally got Tony Groves dismissed, I would confirm that my original Thread was not about that. I agree with you there is no point in further discussion as the council are clearly not going to “come clean” on that and the £130,000 has now been spent. 3. In the present now - the alleged assault on David Harvey by Cllr Jerrard did take place. Police were called and there were witnesses. My third and last question to you is why do you think I need to be a witness to comment on that? The police do not give a person the option of a caution or to appear before a Magistrate lightly and this is what they did to Cllr Jerrard. He refused to take the caution preferring to appear in Court and then has twice engineered its postponement. There must be hard evidence for the police too take such a course of action and there was.

Re: This council are doing it again - g (6th Apr 2015 - 19:23:42) Enough is enough stop this post not doing anybody any good turning into a mud slinging contest EDITOR this is not the sort of post that should be on here employment issues and rumour mongering is wrong and should not be allowed to continue

Re: This council are doing it again - Peter Richardson (7th Apr 2015 - 09:55:50) I have not done any mudslinging on any Thread but post the truth – it is called freedom of speech. Of course it is up to the Editor to “pull” a Thread if he thinks fit. That is what Editors do - edit. However this power must always be exercised with caution. A Thread might conceivably be "pulled" if it is felt that it is getting out of hand either because it contains bad, derogatory and/or offensive language or possibly beause it appears to be going round and round in ever decreasing circles. However whatever happens to this Thread or the Thread "Councillor Jerrard - Liphook Councillor in Court on Assault Charge"- nothing will change the facts and the truth will come out eventually on both counts.

Re: This council are doing it again - S (7th Apr 2015 - 10:18:54) Eek! Dawn Hoskins is no longer a councillor and has stopped being careful about what she posts! Well, we all knew the day was going to arrive! It's just like old times!

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (7th Apr 2015 - 14:17:19) OK – Well to address all the questions I will try to do in turn. Steve, the CPS choose which cases to prosecute. The details of the crimes were given to them and it is up to them to decide if they will proceed in bringing a case to court. The evidence is all there with all the witness statements, and the police did speak to the witnesses to establish the facts. At no point did they say that the issues reported to them did not happen – only that the CPS were not going to proceed. That does not mean there was no case to answer. It DOES NOT not mean that the various offences were not committed. What the CPS decide to do bears no relevance on what still needed to be done at that time to protect staff, councillors etc etc. We were duty bound by the law to protect – also the sum of £130,000 seems to have been plucked out of the air. The only thing that could have been done differently would have been for us Councillors to do the work of the professionals ourselves. Due to the litigious nature of the issue this was not an option. We would have been called biassed if we had had anything to do with it. The claim is still with the insurance company so the funds spent on the professionals may well be returned in due time. That is not in council hands now though. Please remember you can ask questions directly to the Parish Councillors themselves - by telephoning 01428 722988, by E mail: council@bramshottandliphook-pc.gov.uk or by popping into the Haskell Centre (in the car park behind Lloyds Chemist).

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (7th Apr 2015 - 14:44:10) OK – I am addressing each in turn. Please remember you can ask questions directly to the Parish Councillors themselves - by telephoning 01428 722988, by email to council@bramshottandliphook-pc.gov.uk or by popping into the Haskell Centre (in the car park behind Lloyds Chemist). Hello to Alan Jones, All the time the reports were with the CPS and there was a potential prosecution situation, the reports could not be released, however now that the CPS have confirmed they will not act, I agree with you that the redacted contents should be published. It is because they have not that you say ‘no firm evidence has been produced’. The professionals could only have proceeded on factual evidence. They did, and they produced the reports of all their evidence and the consequential decisions they made based on that evidence. In a redacted copy of the reports, no individual would be identifiable (which would make difficult reading) but as least the amount of work done – for the money paid would be visible so that the tax payers can at least see what they were forced to pay for. I agree it is not transparent to continue to withhold this information, however scary it may be to publish, but if there is no Data Protection issue and it is within the public interest to do so then it should be published. During the period where we were dealing with this constant threat of legal action, however vexatious, we had to constantly be updated, and make decisions based on what we were discovering. This led to stupid amounts of meetings as there was horrendous amounts of work to read through etc. We were committed to calling the meetings in the normal way so councillors knew they were happening and could be fully informed. All the time we were discussing identifiable people/employees the meetings could not be in public. They are called exempt sessions. You cannot invite the public to a confidential disciplinary or a closed tendering process. It just doesn’t happen. However, the redacted HR reports will show everything that happened, everyone that was spoken to and the outcomes. With regard to the actions of the previously constituted parish council. Any procedures of the Council are laid down by Statute and Case Law. The mainstay of the law is that EVERY Councillor has to have advance knowledge of decisions that are going to be made. 5 days generally but can be longer if weekends/holidays are involved. This is to allow them to investigate if they need advice or information prior to voting on an issue. If this does not happen, any decision made is illegal. Particularly one which costs the council (tax payers) money. Sadly, this was done time and again prior to the new council being elected. Often, councillors who would have objected didn’t even turn up to meetings as they had no foreknowledge of important and costly matters. When they tried to object afterwards they were dismissed as irrelevant. The Council is like any company, in that it is deemed a ‘legal person’. The actions that would have to be taken if the council were to bring a case would effectively be the Parish suing the Parish - as actions taken by any individual councillor are deemed to be decisions of the corporate entity. It revolves around the concept of ‘Agency’ which is the legal position of an individual binding the whole. For successful repudiation, an individual would have to file a claim for Judicial Review – however as none were published (the decisions or the finances) and many not even told to other councillors prior to being made – that was never going to happen. The process of a Judicial Review is considerably expensive, way more that the funds that it cost to hire the services of lawyers, HR investigation and HR Disciplinary professionals. People of the parish didn’t like paying for just these - so the additional costs of bringing other actions are unlikely to have been tolerated. Please remember that I was one of 12 other Councillors so there are others you can speak to about these things – although due to the insults that get thrown by anonymous posters most councillors will not comment on talkback. (In real life most people are way more pleasant!)

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (7th Apr 2015 - 14:54:28) OK – I am addressing each in turn. Please remember you can ask questions directly to the Parish Councillors themselves - by telephoning 01428 722988, by email to council@bramshottandliphook-pc.gov.uk or by popping into the Haskell Centre (in the car park behind Lloyds Chemist). Kat – tell me who you are and I may consider answering you. You have spent so much time throwing insults at me and other councillors that unless you come clean as to your true identity I will not entertain you or any of the wild theory’s you may ‘understand’. I can categorically state that unlawful decisions were made and that the whole time the files were with the CPS that civil and criminal proceedings were outstanding. Those are facts – although that won’t stop you from mud-slinging if your past form is anything to go by. WHO ARE YOU

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (7th Apr 2015 - 15:12:47) To Peter Richardson, I am addressing comments where I see them. I answered your comment about falsely engineering a situation on the post that it was made upon. This thread is about decisions of the parish council not about any individual councillor so I do not see why you continue to request that the answers are written anywhere else? There is no muddle as far as I can see. A friend is someone you support………….for example by agreeing that his employment was terminated by people engineering a false situation. Totally untrue of course. You may have other imaginary friends – feel free to support them as much as you wish. But if you make assertions of wrongdoing that are malicious and untrue against the councillors I was working with at this time - I will challenge them with the truth. Just as I did with that assertion that the councillors ‘Engineered’ any situation. The papers I refer to are the lengthy reports produced by the professionals that dealt with the legal threats at the time. The costs of which have been published long ago and are not £130,000. The Council have published EVERY PENNY that has been spent - so saying they will not come clean about costs is a malicious lie. With regard to Don Jerrard, I do not know why the case has been postponed, I understand it has been transferred to another area? Ask Don Jerrard if you want to. It is not a council matter and so far you seem to know more than anyone else. If you have specific questions of him – ask him yourself! As far as the police being called – it was him and his wife that called the police – so yes I know they were called.

Re: This council are doing it again - Kevin Jackson (7th Apr 2015 - 17:22:15) I had a spare five minutes' so I trawled through Dawn Hoskins lengthy posts. With regard to Alan Jones all he did as far as I understand it was to state that he had overheard two members of Liphook council running down a member of staff who worked for the Millenium Hall and they were planning his downfall. That member of staff has now been suspended hence the reason for this Thread emerging. Dawn seems to ignore the fact or perhaps she doesn't think it relevant that for some weeks prior to his suspension this was being plotted in public by two people who hold public office. Charming! Dawn says she will not answer any questions that Kat poses because she doesn't know who she/he is. Is Dawn saying that she really knows 100% the identity of all people who post on Liphook Talkback or does she only pick on the ones who place posts that she does not agree with. She accused Peter of saying in his post dated 3 April that Tony Groves' dismissal had been falsely engineered. He didn't use the word falsely he merely said "engineered". She used the word "falsely". Freudian slip or what!! The verb to engineer means "to arrange, manage, or carry through by skillful or artful contrivance:" which was what was done back in the past to get rid of Tony Groves. Dawn still has not named "the friend". I am waiting with bated breath. Moving on let us now leave the past in the past. Cllr Jerrard did arrange the postponement of his trial which should have been held on 19 March at Basingstroke Magsitrates Court and requested for reasons best known to himself to change the venue to Wimbledon. Dawn suggests we ask Cllr Jerrard, but the reason is a little irrelevant now. As has been said before the Truth will Out.

Re: This council are doing it again - Penny OKane (7th Apr 2015 - 17:54:27) I notice that Dawn constantly complains that being a parish councillor is a thankless task. Is this perhaps because she has done nothing which deserves our gratitude ? Dawn, what have you actually done for Liphook during the 3 years and 10 months that you have been a parish councillor ? How have you made Liphook a better place to live in ?

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (7th Apr 2015 - 18:07:13) to Kevin Jackson Alan Jones asks questions, very valid ones, and I answer them. I have no argument with him, I don't know him – I am just answering. Not sure why you have a problem with that? I do not know if this 'Alan Jones' is the same person who says they heard councillors running down a staff member. I know nothing about this, but until the person who heard it can name the pub or the councillors I doubt any light will be shed on the matter. I can only comment on things I know about and answer questions which are put to me. I do not know you Mr Jackson, nor do you know me, but you are very happy to slag me off for answering questions and stating the facts as they were at the time. Why is that? I have made it clear that IF councillors were speaking out in public about a staff member then that is very bad. I do not condone it or support it but know nothing about it so what do you want me to say??! Do you know Mr Gavin from the Millennium Hall? Have you asked him why he has been suspended?? If not then why try to spread gossip about him or councillors when you don’t even know who they were supposed to be or what they are supposed to have said? Kat is a troll and has proved herself utterly vile and poisonous. I do not need to entertain her/it/him. That is my prerogative and no amount of rib-digging by you Mr Jackson will change it. In common parlance, if you say a situation has been ‘engineered’ the inference is that it has been wrongly cobbled together. We don’t need to swallow thesauruses to know what a person is saying! If you have ‘engineered’ something – you have made it up and it is taken as false or unbelievable. There is no doubt in my mind that this was the meaning of the word when it was used before. This is not true. No councillors had anything to do with any of the decision-making precisely because we knew the outcome would be challenged if we did. Not only that - businesses were chosen that had no contact with village, so no prior knowledge, and a different company was taken on to do each different step. There is nothing more the council could have done to distance itself from the decision-making. Damned if we did – damned if we didn’t! If we had done the work ourselves it would have cost nothing but would have been challenged for bias and dragged on for years – to avoid that we now have people saying we shouldn’t have paid for professionals! There is already quite a lot of information on-line about that horrible time, if you take the time to read it - it will answer a lot of your questions. It is not a nice read - but it is factual. Facts are not always nice - but that doesn't make them false, just hard to digest and difficult to accept.

Re: This council are doing it again - MLD (7th Apr 2015 - 19:23:12) Gutted to learn tonight that Scott Gavin has now been sacked by the council :( The best thing to happen to the Millenium Centre for a long long time and he's now gone! Nice work Liphook Council!

Re: This council are doing it again - kayleigh (7th Apr 2015 - 19:57:53) MLD did they give a reason...? surely they have to...? it is a shame...

Re: This council are doing it again - Steve (7th Apr 2015 - 22:25:02) Tony Groves all over again!!!! He used to do 70/80 a week cos he loved his job, but only got paid for about half the hours worked, This council need to go and we can go under the control of Petersfield council, when you have a man that was getting the job done!!! With the lack of money promised to him when he started Liphook council you should be ashamed of yourselves!!!!!!

Re: This council are doing it again - dawn (7th Apr 2015 - 23:27:28) Please ask Mr Gavin for the reasons before blaming people left right and centre. If there has been a dismissal then this can only happen for genuine reasons - with evidence. I do not know what has happened - the only way to find out is to ask Mr Gavin to tell us. Most people would not appreciate having their employment details spread around though - so maybe he won't be able to / or want to speak about it.

Re: This council are doing it again - eve (8th Apr 2015 - 00:16:39) I think this council downfall is coming what thay have done to this member of staff and the way thay have gone about is really dirty shame on you liphook council lets hope the people of liphook stand by this member staff in may and get this council OUT FOR GOOD THAY ARE SHAME FULL PEOPLE. The problem is that NEW people have to stand up and put themselves forward to be voted on to the council. At the moment there is a lot of people belittling the current councillors, and yes with some justification, but no one has yet said they are willing to do this unpaid job. So, if change is wanted new candidates MUST show themselves now.

Re: This council are doing it again - Steve (8th Apr 2015 - 08:02:15) Dawn like you I have friends!!! The problem was they said some funds were missing!!! The first thing you do is call the police (as my friend is a policeman) in to investigate it, but they did not do that why??? Total set up

Re: This council are doing it again - A. Ryan (8th Apr 2015 - 09:46:16) I have picked up a form for the Parish council and filled in, but need two people who know their electoral number. I am dithering as to whether or not I could do the job or even if I am right for it, but all this arguing makes my blood boil. Any way I but might be too late and do I want to be part of an organisation that is at each others throats.

Re: This council are doing it again - val (8th Apr 2015 - 09:52:46) Dawn I really cannot believe that you think you will be taken seriously judging by your comments and observations in your latest post. You say that you have answered Alan Jones’s questions although you do not know him and yet in a previous post you state that you will not answer any questions from Kat as you don’t know who she/he is. A little hypocritical. You accuse people of unpleasant and intemperate language and you scatter insults like confetti. To name a couple. You call Kat a “troll” and say that she/he is utterly vile and poisonous and yet you say that you don’t know her/him and you accuse people of mudslinging, because they don’t agree with your point of view. You pick on people whose posts you don’t agree with accusing them of hiding behind anonymity and yet ignore the vast number of posters who also post under pseudonyms. Double standards or what. However I agree with the Editor, people who are dissatisfied with the present council should put themselves forward for election. I have seriously considered this and with that in mind have attended one or two meetings when controversial matters were discussed and members of the public were present. I was really interested to see how the councillors conducted themselves at the meeting. I was pretty disgusted on each occasion at the way some councillors behaved and without naming names am pretty sure these councillors will put forward their names for re-election. I would not want to work or be associated with these people. You yourself have stated in a previous post that you have resigned as a councillor from the BLPC due to the treatment you have received from some of your fellow councillors. Says it all really. It is a shame. Bramshott & Liphook is a large and important parish and its electors deserve more. In a way it is lucky that the parish council, although they would influence if they were a well run and cohesive council, do not have any real power as you yourself have often said. Unfortunately they do have the power to sack local employees and have constant exempt meetings whereas with most parish councils exempt meetings are a very rare occurrence. The real power on matters such as planning etc is with the District Councillors and thank goodness we have two very effective ones, Cllrs. Glass and Mouland.

Re: This council are doing it again - Jane Ives (8th Apr 2015 - 11:13:23) To A Ryan As a serving parish councillor I would encourage you to stand for election. I am very happy to talk to you about what is involved so please feel free to call me on 722324. I may also be able to help you with electoral role numbers if you need them. Jane Ives

Re: This council are doing it again - Kat (8th Apr 2015 - 12:05:12) I thank Dawn Hoskins for her reply, which provided no answers at all. Most reasonable people would find her personal remarks about me derogatory and rude. I personally don’t mind if people call themselves “h”, “M”, “MLD”, “g”, “Amy”, “Ann” “peter”, “Ear ache”, g r” or whatever they wish on this site. I have to say that I do find Dawn’s “friend” concept difficult to understand. I would like to pick up on and respond to a few of things she has said. Dawn Hoskins said that “that the whole time the files were with the CPS that civil and criminal proceedings were outstanding. Those are facts.” I am sure that Sir David Eady has seen a lot of evidence presented to him and she obviously places herself as a higher authority, even though he was sitting as a High Court Judge, and who said in his judgement which I pointed out to Dawn Hoskins as evidence which was on another thread: “The Third Defendant [Mr Groves] also later discovered that the Claimant [Mr Jerrard] had informed the Parish Council at a committee meeting on 26 November 2012 that there were “civil and criminal proceedings” outstanding against him – even though he had not had the courtesy to serve or otherwise notify the Third Defendant of the relevant civil proceedings. (The allegation about criminal proceedings was also untrue.)” It can't be much clearer than that. Those are the facts and I believe Sir David Eady, and so would others, based on the office he is holding and his authority. My opinion remains that the Council as a body lied to us, and Dawn Hoskins was a councillor at that time. And Dawn Hoskins said the Council acts as an "agency" so one for all and all for one, and so Dawn and all councillors were corporately responsible for what was said. I can assure you all that I have no “wild theory”, because the bullying of Councillor Eve Hope did happen, on two occasions. One incident was witnessed, and the names of the councillors involved are known. She resigned from this Council. Dawn Hoskins also said "We would have been called biassed if we had anything to do with it". So why have I been told by two people that Dawn Hoskins and Councillor Jerrard were actually present during the disciplinary meeting supporting and working for the person doing it. So councillors did do some of the work themselves when Dawn Hoskins said they did not. Her presence and that of Councillor Jerrard in this part of the process was bias and intimidation. That cannot have been right. Dawn Hoskins said that the Council did not have anything to do with the decision making. Then who made the decision to dismiss the ex-clerk. Again, as Dawn Hoskins said, was 5 days’ notice given to the Council? Again, this thread started with a post about a member of staff that had a pay out by this Parish Council. Dawn Hoskins was a member of the Liphook Millennium Hall committee, at one stage Chairperson, and a Parish Councillor at the time so she must know about this, and have agreed it, or known that it was agreed under the agency working. So please could Dawn Hoskins show us where the payment is in the Council accounts, in which she said the Council records “EVERY PENNY”. Then we can all rest assured that the payment and any other supporting payments like solicitors or other specialist fees are visible and clear and recorded in the accounts. And now we have been told that Mr Gavin has been sacked. Frankly I am not surprised seeing what our current councillors are capable of. So when did the Council decide to sack him. I hope the Council were given 5 days’ notice in advance of that decision which is what Dawn Hoskins says happens. No Council meetings have taken place recently so I have to assume that it was one of those secret meetings that the public don’t know about. I feel that what Mr Gavin decides to say or tell his friends is entirely up to him. I am sure he will be getting good advice now that he is out of this Council. As for spreading details around that should be between an employee and their employer pot, kettle, black comes to mind. I thought of standing in the election myself but nothing would induce me to do so now. Especially, as one ex councillor calls me vile and poisonous and is “largely supportive of this Council”. Current councillors are sure to be putting their names forward again and I would not want to work with them having seen how they conduct themselves at meetings. So here are the questions that need to be answered: 1.Who were the councillors that treated Dawn Hoskins so badly she had to resign? 2.Who made the decision to dismiss the ex-clerk, and were the Council given five days’ notice? 3. What was the amount of the pay out that this Council made to an employee at the Liphook Millennium Hall, and where is the payment shown in the accounts for all of us to see? 4. How much of the Council’s money, our money, has gone missing, been lost, or is unaccounted for and for how long, and did the Council report the loss of the money to the police at the time? 5. Who made the decision to sack Mr Gavin and was five days notice given to the Council? 6. Who is the “friend” that Dawn Hoskins talked about?

Re: This council are doing it again - gr (8th Apr 2015 - 12:57:18) ENOUGH!!!!!! This has gone in far enough now time for the post to END let the authorities sort it without this bias and complete negativity this is an employment tribunal criminal etc and should not be a public debate!! yes we all have our own views this is NOT the place on a comunnity web site

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (8th Apr 2015 - 13:24:39) Hello to Val. The difference is that Alan Jones was not insulting in any way – just asked a question – which I answered – whereas if you look at the posts that ‘Kat’ makes they are simply repetitive, stupid nonsense in which he/she/it seems content to pour bile over people. He/she/it seems to hate Parish Councillors with a poisonous passion. I have quite broad shoulders and can deal with things, I tend not to take things personally - but I do really wonder where people’s minds are at – when they sit anonymously behind a keyboard ‘trolling’ in this way. If a person asks me a question – I will answer but I do not consider speaking to anonymous trolls as a sensible thing to do. No answer given to them will be accepted regardless of truth. Quite happy to believe salacious gossip - but truth - NO. I do not mind people disagreeing with me – but saying I am a liar is a little different. If people want to call me, or any of my colleagues’ liars in a way that I know is plainly untrue or malicious, then they will be challenged with the truth. Simple. To both Val and Alison I would encourage you to stand. You both are outspoken and seem to have quite broad shoulders. We need people who will be able to get on-line and communicate in a modern world. The sad fact is that people, for whatever reason, simply do not go to meetings. The same 5 or 6 people attend and are well known - but that is out of about 8,000 voters! Anyone new attending is quite a surprise and their identities are quickly established as most Councillors are so excited to see a new face. This means that you have people who weren’t there (like Kat) spreading rumour and gossip to other people – who also weren’t there – hence the levels of misinformation going around. The blind leading the blind. This coupled with the fact that the majority of Councillors would not set foot on here or touch it with a ten-foot barge pole leads to salacious stories springing up in no time - with only one or two people to speak against. So if this is where people are talking – then this is where Councillors need to be. The issue is the anonymity of people – which makes Councillors unwilling to jump in. In real life people are generally very reasonable and polite – if you are asking a question at a meeting you give your name first so everyone knows who you are, but on-line they are very very far from polite – and for many that it too hard to take.

Re: This council are doing it again - pft (8th Apr 2015 - 13:29:09) i thing this post carry:s on as we are talking about a mans living here we have all ready shown they dont know how to treat there staff

Re: This council are doing it again - Keith (8th Apr 2015 - 14:15:47) To A.Ryan Please don't let the lack of electoral roll numbers put you off standing. As long as the people signing are on the electoral roll, you can get the electoral roll numbers either from the Parish office or there is a copy of the electoral roll at Petersfield Library or the elections staff at Penns Place will fill them in for you. But you need to make a quick decision, the deadline for completed forms to be submitted is 4pm tomorrow and you must submit them by hand to Penns Place, you can't send them in the post. If you can't get to Penns Place yourself you can ask someone else to take them in for you but they must be hand delivered. If you or someone else takes them in you will need to wait while they are verified which takes 10-15 minutes.

Re: This council are doing it again - Kevin Jackson (8th Apr 2015 - 14:56:00) Just two questions Dawn and I don't think I have ever been impolite and called you a liar so hopefully you will be able to answer them. 1. Who is the friend who you refer to? 2 How do you know that Kat has not been to any council meetings if you don't know who she/he is? Would really appreciate the courtesy of an answer.

Re: This council are doing it again - nick (8th Apr 2015 - 20:52:59) i take it all you people out there went to the Annual meeting the other week???i f you have a gripe suggest you go to the horse and not the trough instead of moaning about what the council have or have not done is sour grapes Why do they having meetings how many of you went to the annual meeting were you one of the 9 that attended How many of you voted??? if you didn't vote you are not in a position to sound off or are you

Re: This council are doing it again - David jones (9th Apr 2015 - 15:39:13) Well we're was the meeting advertised?? Yr crafty put a small sign up somewhere out the way, so you don't have to deal with all the problems.

Re: This council are doing it again - pft (9th Apr 2015 - 19:12:08) ah mr david jones at last as we all know now mr cavin has been sacked i hope you will be true to your words and name the 2 counclers plotting his downfall

Re: This council are doing it again - Steve (9th Apr 2015 - 19:55:37) He won't have to Mr Scott Gavin is running for council, fully registered at penns place Should be interesting

Re: This council are doing it again - Steve (9th Apr 2015 - 22:30:46) Scott Gavin has been elected to be on the council for the next 4 years, it's great news

Re: This council are doing it again - eve (10th Apr 2015 - 00:09:18) This is great news just what liphook wants well done scott

Re: This council are doing it again - Kat (14th Apr 2015 - 12:05:52) Still no answers, but sticking to the current issue: What was the amount of the payout that this Council made to an employee at the Liphook Millennium Hall, and where is the payment shown in the accounts for all of us to see? How much of the Council’s money, our money, has gone missing, been lost, or is unaccounted for and for how long, and did the Council report the loss of the money to the police at the time? Who made the decision to sack Mr Gavin and was five days notice given to the Council? Who is the “friend” that Dawn Hoskins talked about?

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (14th Apr 2015 - 15:02:05) Peter Richardson stated (in my words) that the current councillors made up facts to falsely create the situation whereby a staff member could be dismissed. I am not talking about Mr Gavin here. I responded to this because his statement were false. (Apart from the fact that the documentation has not been published – with which I agree with him. They should be published - to enable closure of the issue and stop all this stupid speculation about conspiracies etc). It is my opinion that if you hold this false belief you have been given false information by a ‘blind-supporter’ of the person in question who is not in possession of the facts. You are therefore a ‘friend’ of the ex-staff member as, although you have been misguided, you are prepared to support his position in an on-line public forum – that he was sacked using a completely ‘engineered’ situation. I then question the direction being taken by Mr Richardson, as if you really were a friend of said person, enough to stand up and state your belief that he had been sacked erroneously, then you would probably not be acting in his best interests to keep bringing something up which he would wish to keep covered up. After all, the es-employee is in possession of all the files and could have disclosed his behaviours – but has chosen not to. When specifically asked who a friend is in this context – I answered directly. “A friend is someone you support………….for example by agreeing that his employment was terminated by people engineering a false situation”. Nothing ambiguous about it so I cannot understand why people think the question is not answered (or why it is so important). I then tried to explain but did not do a good enough job. I think this led to confusion. For clarification, the assaults I referred to are not those alleged to have been undertaken by Mr Jerrard, but those physical assaults instigated against Councillors – including myself. I was talking about the historic issue to which the council were being accused of ‘rigging’ to fix the outcome. I should have made this clearer as people drew the conclusion that I was talking about a different thread and Mr Richardson kept thinking that I was commenting in the wrong place. I hope I have now cleared this up. To clarify also, I don’t think I have ever said that Kat has not been to council meetings. I’m not sure why there is a barrage of agitation about me saying something that I did not (to my knowledge). I personally do not believe Kat to be a genuine human – but a ‘ringer’. A person hiding their true identity and using their inside information to spread false rumours. As I hold this belief - it follows that I find the concept of a fictional character appearing in public unlikely. The alter-ego perhaps but not the fictional version. However, until yesterday I have not said this – so I would be obliged if any readers who have been so offended by my previous ‘allegations’ that Kat has not attended Council meetings to find them and point them out to me – they must be there surely for you all to be so upset by them………?

Re: This council are doing it again - Kevin Jackson (14th Apr 2015 - 17:25:31) Just the name of the friend will do.

Re: This council are doing it again - Kevin Jackson (14th Apr 2015 - 17:27:51) As you seem to be posting on both Threads and they are now completely muddled I ask again. Please could you let me know the name of the Friend.

Re: This council are doing it again - Kat (14th Apr 2015 - 22:20:14) Dawn I am sorry but I have to take issue with what you have said. The following quotes from posts on this thread were written by you: “The sad fact is that people, for whatever reason, simply do not go to meetings. The same 5 or 6 people attend and are well known - but that is out of about 8,000 voters! Anyone new attending is quite a surprise and their identities are quickly established as most Councillors are so excited to see a new face. This means that you have people who weren’t there (like Kat) spreading rumour and gossip to other people – who also weren’t there – hence the levels of misinformation going around.” You then said: “To clarify also, I don’t think I have ever said that Kat has not been to council meetings. I’m not sure why there is a barrage of agitation about me saying something that I did not (to my knowledge)” This is clear evidence that you did say I don’t attend council meetings and please do not try and deny this. It was written, by you, FACT! What is also FACT is that I attend council meetings. For example, I attended the Council meeting on 27th October 2014, FACT. I witnessed like many others, with my own eyes and ears a complete and utter shambles of a meeting at which we were told by Councillor Croucher, the Chair of the meeting, if I remember correctly, that it was unfair that so many people were attending and asking questions! There have been many other such meetings during the time of this Council. So please don’t tell us we don’t go to meetings or are spreading rumour and gossip to other people. When we do go to meetings we are likely to be patronised, or ignored, and many of us are none the wiser as to the answer to many questions asked as a result. And we tell our friends and colleagues what we see, and hear, and what we see and hear after the meetings have finished, and what councillors and others say to us outside meetings. Dawn, on 26th October you were not even at the Council meeting, FACT! I would also ask you to moderate your language on this site. You should not be calling anyone “vile” and “poisonous”. And I am not a “hack” or a “ringer” or a “troll” as you so kindly call me. You will probably say that in your knowledge you did not say something that you have. That won’t wash. You did say all of that, FACT.

Re: This council are doing it again - Keven (14th Apr 2015 - 23:05:46) Can you please tell all the people of Liphook what the reason for as part of the dismissal of the ex manager was over missing funds, he was suspended for this reason first !!! Why were the police not called to this matter???? Also it said there has been more money gone missing under the stand in manager. So why have they not been suspended as well??? Surely you can not suspend one with out the other!!! Is this not a case of discrimination which is against the law!!!! This extra money has gone missing, it could not have been the first manager because his keys ect were handed in on the time of his suspension. And still the police have not been called in, again why???? Sounds like the old manager needs to be given his job back, because part of the reasons as I say part!!! for you not kept him on after his probation time was the missing money!!!! Surely now you are a target for the courts once again, like Mr Groves and cost the Liphook people more money!!!! I have made this public so people know what's going on. The council need to act now before its to late. Surly as the council a part of the reason to dismiss of a employer is proven to be incorrect, then any case against the councils would be won on these grounds alone!!!!

Re: This council are doing it again - Kat (15th Apr 2015 - 13:51:27) Dawn, I apologise for the error in my last post. You were not present at the Council meeting on 27th October 2014, not 26th October which I put in the last bit of the post. My typing mistake, sorry.

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (15th Apr 2015 - 14:33:08) Keven, I am no longer a Councillor so am not privy to Employee/Employer meetings, which are confidential as in any workplace. (I am not sure if you are asking me personally but as most other posts here seem to be directed at me I will assume so). Ultimately, the best person to ask would be Mr Gavin who would be able to confirm the reasons given to him and whether he contests them. The Council are bound by ACAS procedures which you can find here: www.acas.org.uk/?articleid=2174 Any person contesting the facts surrounding dismissal should fill out the E.A.T.1. form found here: www.gov.uk/employment-tribunals/make-a-claim As I am not privy to the facts I am in possession of the same knowledge as everyone else. It is the prerogative of the employer as to whether the police are called to matter. If an act of aggression has occurred for example (or is happening in real-time), it is normal for the police to be called. If it is civil/criminal wrongdoing that has been uncovered it is entirely up to the employer as to whether they would want their employee to have (potentially) a criminal/civil record. Employers will often choose not to place this burden on their staff and this action is outside of any disciplinary procedure that would have to be followed to the letter. Also, just to clarify the position vis-a-vis discrimination for you. If a person suffers a detriment associated with their gender, race, religion or sexual orientation – this is discrimination, which is against the law. However, if a person is treated in a way they consider unfair – this is not discrimination. Employers can give preferential treatment to staff based on merit or belief (or any reason unrelated the illegal heads above) and although this may be interpreted as unfair by other staff members – it is not discrimination. The laws in this area are very complex but I hope that this ‘nutshell’ has been easy to understand. If you want to read further on it, see here: www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights/types-of-discrimination Whether or not the Council will be ‘a target for the courts’ will remain to be seen. That will depend on Mr Gavin and whether he feels he has been wrongly accused of something of which there is no evidence. Any real-time claim (or even being put on notice that a claim is pending) will always cost an employer money. Legal advice does not come free or cheap. Employment specialists cost North of £250 per hour and it takes many hours to digest the facts and decide on a course of action. If, as you assert, the reasons given for dismissal have been proven to be incorrect – then you are right that the case would be won on those grounds – as it would make the dismissal both Statutorily Unfair and Contractually Wrongful. However, there is a continuance of service period for ‘Unfair’ (breach of statute) which has not been met. These are both complicated legal definitions. If you would like to read up on it, look here: www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/overview

Re: This council are doing it again - Kevin Jackson (15th Apr 2015 - 14:33:23) I too was at the meeting on the 27 October and I have never attended such a badly run and unfair parish council meeting in my life or any other meeting come to that. It really was a shambles. To those who ask why I don't stand for BLPC, I really would not want to be associated with some of the people who sit on this council.

Re: This council are doing it again - Keven (15th Apr 2015 - 18:45:04) I have been told that the person covering Mr Gavin's sacking is a good friend of the parish clear, so that's why they not have been suspended as we!!!! Like the other information, this has been told to me by a parish councillor that is to frightened to get involved. Because of the way the councillors work. Set you up like they did Mr Groves!!!! Mr Stanley do the right thing and resign!!!

Re: This council are doing it again - Frances White (15th Apr 2015 - 19:52:06) This thread should be brought to a close. G. Renoulf requested that this should happen and I second that. A man's job is being discussed here openly and now it seems that someone else is having their character assassinated on an open forum. Shame on Liphook Talkback for even publishing these posts.

Re: This council are doing it again - Rob (15th Apr 2015 - 21:22:04) If people don't stand up to this conciliation, and yes it's about a man's job but we want this man to get his job back. We have seen how this council tax think they are God's like with Mr Groves and they lost how many £1000's it cost us Liphook tax payers for what!! You want this taken down because why, a councillor trying to cover yr back on a made update name!!!!! Mr Gavin was the best thing that happened to the millennium Hall for years, the new stand in manager has not got a clue, thinks they are God but I was going to book a wedding there, but after talking to her it would be more like a wake. Mr Gavin gave this Hall life & sole. Get him back

Re: This council are doing it again - Steve (16th Apr 2015 - 00:09:10) I think the people of Liphook should know about the crap way the Liphook council hide things, like we're has out tax money come from to pay the court costs, you can't make a £130000 turn up out of thin air, who has cooked the books to loose that kind of money. They are so under hand, we need the police to be called in to cheque for fraud, there is a case to answer

Re: This council are doing it again - B (16th Apr 2015 - 00:34:31) As there are three seat available, are people still able to apply as a council member?

Re: This council are doing it again - Rob (16th Apr 2015 - 08:26:05) I believe they have got the money by taking money out of the different funds, like the millennium Hall, rec, radford Park ect ect. book the money down as work carried out, when there was no work done.

Re: This council are doing it again - Resident (16th Apr 2015 - 08:56:13) You should all be ashamed of yourselves. This is peoples lives you are all making assumptions about. Have a thought for those involved and stop second guessing what is actually happening. It is disgraceful.

Re: This council are doing it again - Kat (16th Apr 2015 - 17:41:39) So the key questions remain unanswered. What was the amount of the pay out that this Council made to an employee at the Liphook Millennium Hall, and where is the payment shown in the accounts for all of us to see? How much of the Council’s money, our money, has gone missing, been lost, or is unaccounted for and for how long, and did the Council report the loss of the money to the police at the time? Who made the decision to sack Mr Gavin and was five days notice given to the Council? The Council should give us the answers.

Re: This council are doing it again - Rob (18th Apr 2015 - 18:57:16) Why can't they just Come clean Can we stop out rates payment the Liphook part, till we get the truth????

Re: This council are doing it again - Steve (20th Apr 2015 - 14:19:41) Just spoken to the police, they think it's strange that the theft has not been reported, as this is public money, they said under the freedom of information act they should inform people why they have not involved the police

Re: This council are doing it again - Keven (20th Apr 2015 - 18:03:20) I hear threats have been made by the council and Mr Stanley against staff Come and make a threat to me let's see how brave you are!!!! Because let's talk in court, I can prove you messed up once again

Re: This council are doing it again - Rob (22nd Apr 2015 - 09:39:39) Well Kevin I can back you on that, they don't do things as way you should under the employment law, they just put 2 & 2 together and make 5!!!!!

Re: This council are doing it again - Steve (23rd Apr 2015 - 07:32:29) I'm told we can go to the council offices in Liphook and ask to see the accounts of how much was paid to the ex manager, and they have got to by law!!!!!

Re: This council are doing it again - Steve (23rd Apr 2015 - 07:48:38) So today is Haslemere herald day wonder what will be on the front page this week

Re: This council are doing it again - carole west (24th Apr 2015 - 17:05:42) what a cock up!

Re: This council are doing it again - Rob (25th Apr 2015 - 10:53:57) If the council have called the police in over missing funds, why have people not been interviewed by the police, it dose not sound right to me!!!!

Re: This council are doing it again - Steve (25th Apr 2015 - 12:00:41) The council are running scared!!!! If the the council are so confident show all the account on here showing money spent on Mr Groves & money spent on the exmanager of the millennium Hall, how much and we're the money came from, prove you have nothing to hide!!!!!

Re: This council are doing it again - Kat (26th Apr 2015 - 11:03:30) Carole West. I have seen the Herald. Stitch up and now a cover up, and we do not know where the money has gone from the Millennium Hall.

Re: This council are doing it again - Rob (27th Apr 2015 - 07:45:55) The police still not spoken to anyone, makes you wonder if they have spoken to the police about the missing money

Re: This council are doing it again - doug kingshott. (27th Apr 2015 - 15:13:10) Hi. I'm 21, and love politics. What strikes me through this thread, Is the mis trust towards the council. Even more striking is the argument against this miss trust. Now, these allegations are pretty strong. Two members of the council apparently drove a man devoted to his job out of the mill centre. So what flesh does this rumour hold? Who witnessed this? Has it been reported? Is the person in question looking to take action? What has this person got to say personally? And what about the two (unnamed) councillors? We shouldn't stew on rumours until they have full detail. Next in line. The councils argument against the locals mistrust. Tbh, there is a huge reason to have no trust. These 5-6 figure numbers are easy to fob off as gone and wasted, but I do feel councillors are ignorant to the fact this is hard worked money, won't be returned, and furthermore ignorant to the fact people are going to be angered by the fact that this money has been lost. Full stop. I also think these 'nay sayers' are well within right to 'nay say'. Especially after this self admitted period of money loss. Also especially with documents and records of money spent after this period of time on fixation, and no presentation of these documents. Furthermore, these documents should have been displayed publically. We shouldn't be asking what we spend our money on, but we should be shown. Furthermore. Telling people they should trust you, after publically scorning someone is a bit of a joke. Id like a councillor who is calm, informative, trust worthy, passionate about their area, and further more, give a dam about the voices of the locals. Thus far I have read of theft of public funds, aggression, and mis trust. What shocks me more is the council say "if we aren't good enough, you do it". Pretty lazy response tbh. You wouldn't have this 'abuse' if you did your jobs properly anyway. Telling others to stand because your fed up of being complained at is so ****ing lazy. There is a general election this week. For politicians alike it is an exciting, exhilarating time. As someone aged 21 however, its scary and confusing. Id like not only my country to be run smoothly, but my village too. Maybe as a village we should organise a meet, so as a village, we can voice what WE want. I know there are parish council meetings etc, but there is no point going unless we are within great numbers. Perhaps we should form a citizens meeting where by we discuss issues and things we can be improving that are important to the villagers, and then forward each agenda and meeting result to the local council.

Re: This council are doing it again - Jane Ives (27th Apr 2015 - 16:17:17) Doug, I'm a bit puzzled by your remark that the council are saying "if we aren't good enough, you do it" as I'm not sure anyone has actually said that. I'm making the assumption that perhaps you're alluding to my comments encouraging people to stand for election? The reason I did this was that I was aware, leading up to the nomination deadline, that we were likely to be a few councillors short as some had decided not to stand for re-election. We need to have 12 councillors and personally I would really encourage new people to stand. Out of the existing 11 councillors, 7 are standing again. No-one has said, as far as I can see, that others should stand because they're fed up of being complained about. I'm certainly standing again and I'm doing so because I do care very much about the community. I'm sure if you knew me you would understand that. With regards to making improvements in the village why don't you join the Parish Plan group who have been working for some years to ascertain what people in Liphook actually want? Did you go along to their exhibition recently which outlined their findings and asked people to give input into their ideas? If not, then do get in touch with them as your explanation of what you would like to see in a village meeting is pretty close to what they do. This group incidentally is separate from the parish council and is run by some very hard working volunteers. I would also encourage you to come along to parish council meetings. There is no need for attendance in vast numbers, if you're interested come and have a listen and ask questions in the public sessions.

Re: This council are doing it again - A. Ryan (27th Apr 2015 - 17:52:09) Doug. How absolutely right you are. I could not have put it better. This council and it's dealings are so scary, and how sad the real people of Liphook do not have more say about their village. You are right, council meetings are a waste of time. It is an outdated procedure and needs to be hauled out of the dark ages. Meetings on a large scale where everyone can have their say would be more lucrative. It saddens me that the people who are meant to help this town seem to have more arguments, sackings, court cases, payoffs and money going missing than than your latest thriller on tv. What on earth has been going on? Is this all a plot to frighten people from standing? One would assume they are waiting to pounce on you and haul you over the coals. Some people seem to be in the know. I think as this is a public job we should all be told what is going on. Why should we hand over our money for the community charge if we are not being told where it is going. Why should it be used for pay offs? If someone is sacked they are sacked, goodbye ,no hand out. Now, will someone start telling us the whole story and not the friends of this person or that sticking up for a pal. If you cannot be honest and be less self centered then get out of the council.

Re: This council are doing it again - Steve (28th Apr 2015 - 19:39:35) These people were sacked because they were not yes men, trying to do good for the village, not for the crazy ideas this council have!!!! Like the willows nursery still don't know what's happening to them, after promise after promise. Shame on you Liphook council

Re: This council are doing it again - Keven (29th Apr 2015 - 21:51:32) Any news on the police findings???

Re: This council are doing it again - Steve (3rd May 2015 - 19:18:07) I hear we can still get Mr Gavin on the council let's support him, and change things for the better

Re: This council are doing it again - Katie (5th May 2015 - 19:34:07) To A. Ryan, and everybody else on this thread: as someone who has attended a council meeting as a member of public, I can assure you that the meetings are not a waste of time, and certainly not outdated. If more people attended, then more people would know about the process of the council and the work they are doing. The meetings COULD be "on a large scale where everyone can have their say"... if people actually turned up to the meetings!! It is important to remember that the councillors are all volunteers who are taking hours and hours of their own time to try to make our village as good as possible, and they only have limited budget, resources and people to do this. That must be understood. People writing comments on here about what the council aren't doing is not going to change anything. Again - go to the meetings! There are several dedicated points at the meetings for any public questions or statements. Make your voice heard if you think you have something important to say! Furthermore: the 'arguments' that A. Ryan mentioned have, in fact, not been created by the council, but people on this forum (who, from what I have read, have NOT attended a meeting). Sackings, court cases and money going missing, I do not know about as a member of the public, but nonetheless it is an internal issue, and we must all remember that. These are real people who are trying to handle a situation delicately, and this online name-calling certainly won't help. "Is this all a plot to frighten people from standing?" Of course not! I have seen at least one councillor on here encouraging people to stand. The councillors are all GOOD people, who spend their own time on this, for free. There's nothing in it to make them not want other people to stand. I must stress again, that yes, it is a 'public' job, but it is still somebody's job. We can't expect someone's personal, private job information to be released to the public, just because the public know that the job exists - that is just ridiculous. So please, I urge everybody to think about the fact that this is just a public forum. If you have something to say, attend a meeting, and you will be able to speak to the councillors in person, which is a much more effective way of getting your voice heard.

Re: This council are doing it again - Keven (5th May 2015 - 22:11:56) You were not at the willows nursery meeting the councilors could not wait to finish the meeting, they never answered half the questions that people wanted to ask!!! If they are that confident and Mr Gavin is willing let's have a public meeting, and the council can tell us why they have accused Mr Gavin of 5 different things, but we know we can prove without trying 2 were incorrect, it funds missing, well more money went missing after Mr Gavin had been sacked, giving a contractor a key, they thought the contractor had a key to the millennium Hall, when he had the millennium Hall keys to the allotments to install a new fence. So I'm sure in a court of law the case against Mr Gavin would fall apart!!!!!

Re: This council are doing it again - Katie (6th May 2015 - 00:22:17) Keven, As I'm sure you are aware, parish council meetings must be run with a strict agenda, which includes a time frame to stick to. Unfortunately, I believe, this meant that the amount of discussion the public wanted about the Willows was unable to take place. However, at any other meeting, there are usually at most 5 members of the public. I don't think a sample of one meeting really defines how the meetings generally run. May I ask how you know all this information about Mr Gavin? If a councillor has disclosed to you this information, then I will be very shocked, and that would be a cause for concern. However, I hope that this isn't the case. Furthermore, where did you hear about further money going missing? That is not good to hear. Katie

Re: This council are doing it again - Keven (6th May 2015 - 07:32:50) My best friend was up stairs in the heritage center and over heard a conversation on the phone about more money had gone missing, after Mr Gavin had been sacked, also he was the contractor that had the keys to do the fencing work!!! And yes is is prepared to stand up in court to say this, I would trust this man with my life, so I know it's true!!! If anyone from the council want to talk to him about it, he is more than happy to do do!!! He has informed Mr Stanley of what he over heard and the keys were for the allotments not the millennium Hall

Re: This council are doing it again - stacey (6th May 2015 - 10:43:54) Please read my posting, under the Millennium Hall thread. It is time to let this go now KEVEN, "she said he said "I overheard " etc, chinese whispers, I could start malicious gossip myself on here, no one would be any the wiser. Harassment on social media it is called now. The staff are trying to do their jobs, you have a personal issue, take it up with an employment tribunal, defend your friend there, Keven and win him shedloads of compensation for his probationary employment coming to an end I am sure they would give a measured, considered ruling. After all they will investigate the facts, not " he said, and "I overheard," I am sure the people of liphook want to move on now!

Re: This council are doing it again - Dawn Hoskins (6th May 2015 - 10:51:38) Keven – What on earth has the ‘Willows’ got to do with the staff at the Millennium centre? Firstly, the hundreds of people ‘whipped up’ by the willows to come and ‘make a noise’ were told before-hand that if they wanted to discuss it; it would have to be put on an agenda so it could have the time. Councillors were clear – it is not on the Agenda. Anyone that knows anything about formalities would know that it is hopeless to demand a discussion when the item is not agenda. It is entirely unfair to blame the council for an unsatisfactory meeting when those demanding to be heard – had already been told that it would have to be put on the agenda first. I cannot see how this is linked with staffing at the Millennium hall. Secondly; anyone that ever had an employment contract would demand that their personnel meetings were held in confidence. Can you imagine the grievances of every employee in the land being blown up like you are doing here? No. Mr Gavin has been told, here, how to commence the Tribunal Process should he have grounds. He is the only one who can do this – not you. If laws have been broken, by either party, it is up to them to make their claims – and lodge them in the correct places. You may think you are helping the cause of your friend – but by spreading a series of groundless hearsay you are in fact damaging it as you become less trustworthy and increasingly unreliable. Just leave it. If a claim is coming then the Council can wait for it to arrive. If it does not then clearly no contracts or statutes have been broken.

Re: This council are doing it again - Cockatrice (6th May 2015 - 11:35:40) Am I the only person to note that most of the contributions on this thread and others from ‘Keven’ and ‘Steve’ or ‘Steve’ and ‘Keven’ (they seem to be interchangeable) appear to have been posted very late at night or in the early hours of the morning, no doubt after ‘closing time’ which may go some way to explain the almost incomprehensible grammar and execrable spelling.

Re: This council are doing it again - Robin (6th May 2015 - 23:34:01) This council could not organise a p*** up in a brewery!!!! They have contractors refusing to work for them anymore because of the 6/8 weeks to get paid!!! Petersfield council need to take over Liphook council again so it's run properly!!!

Re: This council are doing it again - stacey (7th May 2015 - 11:16:03) Hi Robin doubtless a contractor yourself? I think you are being a bit harsh. I think you would find the delay time on payments by the district council far longer, about 25 years ago I did some work for the district council, they paid their contactors every quarter, so by the time the cheque had cleared it was at least 13 /14 weeks. But I do not suppose they have a use for your bouncy castles! or maybe they do? Also it may have occured to the Parish Council to employ a caretaker who can also do small odd jobs for themselves? sometimes that is a more cost effective option?

Re: This council are doing it again - Robin (18th May 2015 - 16:33:44) Did they not tell you the money from the castle was stolen as well!!! Work done no caretaker would reartex the ceiling in the main hall, install a fence on the allotments, climb on the roof of the millennium centre and replace broken tiles, were the kids brake them, last time I looked there were 7 broken again!!!!

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