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Local Talkback
Talkback is for the residents and businesses in Liphook to voice their views and opinions about local issues and events.

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Transparency and the Publication of Council Documents
- Don Jerrard (23rd Nov 2014 - 17:25:56)

I rarely contribute to Liphook Talkback for a number of reasons, but recognise it as a valuable community facility for which we should be very grateful.

I have made a reply to the most recent thread about the Willows Nursery but believe my basic message of the benefits of transparency should be discussed in a wider context.

Therefore any comments on the motion that I am putting to the PC meeting tomorrow would be appreciated. The motion is:-

PROPOSED RESOLUTIONS REGARDING TRANSPARENCY AND THE PUBICATION OF COUNCIL DOCUMENTS
Proposed by Cllr Don Jerrard, seconded by Cllr Dawn Hoskins

1. That the Council should immediately publish on its website the Report provided by Messrs Jacob & Hunt into the condition of the premises currently occupied and used by the Willows Nursery.

2. That the Council should publish on its website fully redacted and anonymised copies of any other reports prepared for Bramshott and Liphook Parish Council and paid for by the tax payers of this parish.

3. That the Council should publish on its website fully redacted and anonymised copies of any other reports prepared by Bramshott and Liphook Parish Council which have been collated in order to be presented to third parties.

My one concern is that people are allowed to make comments without identifying themselves which I think is a rather cowardly thing to do. Nonetheless anonymous comments are better than none, and I hope anyone interested in this subject will come to the debate tomorrow., We might hear publicly which Councillors would prefer to return to the bad old days of secret deals behind closed doors!

Cheers to everyone!

Don Jerrard

Re: Transparency and the Publication of Council Documents
- Shauna (23rd Nov 2014 - 19:44:31)

I have already asked (by email and in writing) for several documents from the Parish Council and to date have not received acknowledgement of the request, let alone the documents requested, I have also asked for the reasons why several "closed meetings" were held, guess what.... no reply. Nothing close to transparency, not even the good manners of a reply.

Re: Transparency and the Publication of Council Documents
- Richard (24th Nov 2014 - 07:48:05)

Does this request come into scope of the Freedom of Information Act? If it does, make a formal request. From memory, the response has to be delivered in 40 days

Re: Transparency and the Publication of Council Documents
- James (24th Nov 2014 - 10:10:09)

Here are the guides from the Information Commissioners Office about what information Parish Councils should provide for FOI requests, it seems the report above would be covered.

Detailed_specialist_guides/parish_council_information_guide

Detailed_specialist_guides/parish_meeting_information_guide


Re: Transparency and the Publication of Council Documents
- Daisy (24th Nov 2014 - 11:49:59)

The Willows building survey is available to read at the Parish Office and it is also on the Parish Council website.

Re: Transparency and the Publication of Council Documents
- Val (24th Nov 2014 - 14:11:04)

Well, now we are getting somewhere, but what a lot of effort has been put in my some people (and I don't mean parish councillors) to reach this stage – a stage I might add in which the parish council should have always been. Perhaps they really have learnt something from their past mistakes, secretiveness and bungling. Let us now give them our support and a chance to behave like a responsible and transparent parish council worthy of Bramshott and Liphook.

Re: Transparency and the Publication of Council Documents
- Mr Toshie (24th Nov 2014 - 16:47:58)

At last indeed! Well done Mr Jerrard. You came in for a lot of stick looking back over the threads revolving around the “alleged” corruption of the former clerk and sacking of same along with accusations about Councillors’ of dubious character, now resigned thank goodness.

Re: Transparency and the Publication of Council Documents
- Finchie (25th Nov 2014 - 10:14:57)

Following a front row seat, hopefully a balanced update from me from last night’s council meeting (not on everything, just on the bits I’m personally interested in, the Willows and Transparency !).

Also an immediate update as I got bored of waiting for the minutes of the last PC meeting to be published – means I can update while still fresh in my mind (the marbles are going you know).

Since the PC meetings have no real forum for public debate, which I do understand (to make the meetings manageable), Talkback provides a sound forum for communication. At least the PC are realising that social media is here to stay and gagging attempts will backfire. We make progress. I offer my services free of charge to coach the PC in handling and responding to Social Media, having done that a number of years ago with businesses.

Willows:
The Willows motion was passed for an extension until Easter. Congratulations to all involved, a big step forward. A good open discussion with Cllr Ives, Jordan and Maroney adding value and all ensuring public interests protected in the cases of insurance etc etc.

However a very reasonable request from Cllr Jerrard to amend the motion to allow extension until the end of the summer term was rejected without any debate. Reasonable on the basis that previous leases have been for the full year, and it is impractical for a school to operate in anything other than an academic year. Points very well made. A Working Party has been set up to help with “negotiations”. Interesting use of terminology as it implies two parties trying to find a middle ground. It should be to “find a path forward in the best interests of the community and children education” ! Looking forward to seeing the minutes to ensure all those on the PC who put their name forward for the Working Party are on it – just in the interest of balance :-)

Transparency:
The Willows has driven the need for full Transparency and this is now on the PC agenda AND MUST NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL WE HAVE AN ACCEPTABLE WAY FORWARD !

Cllr Jerrard’s first point was null and void as the Willows survey was published on the website in the last few days. My opinion is that his motion drove this, but the formal PC line is that it took time to get agreement with the surveyors. No matter. It is sorted (see below for ways of improving this going forward).

I believe a VERY important principle was established by Cllr Hoskins and Cllr Jerrard. The default position MUST be to publish on the website and then hold back anything by exception (regarding salaries etc). The current position is that things are only published by exception. If we have that principle established – the survey issue would not happen again, as any contractor engaged by the PC would be told that their report would be made public.

Again, Cllr Ives, Jordan and Maloney added value to the debate by suggesting the current motions were too open ended. I’m not qualified or informed well enough to judge this but Cllr Jerrard made a very reasonable suggestion for any Cllr to re-write the motion so that they were comfortable.

Val, your comments were read out and listened to – Talkback makes a difference ! Hats off Ed.

There was a statement that all are interested in full transparency and openness.

My Observations (or opinion): There seemed to be be serious concerns about this motion being retrospective. While no-one said it directly, this is clearly driven by the saga with the former clark and access to information. Again, the default position of the council seems to be “why SHOULD we publish information under Freedom of Information and looking for reasons NOT to publish”. The mindset has to change to “why should we NOT publish information”.

Outcome: There was a comment that the voting should be minuted anonymously which I personally disagree with – so just to assure full transparency. Cllrs Jerrard, Hoskins, Evans and Trotter all voted in favour of the motions.

My request for the next meeting: One of the councillors who did not vote in favour – propose an amended motion that you are comfortable with and addresses your concerns about the open-ended nature. This will demonstrate to the public that you are actually interested on making progress on transparency.

My Personal Opinions:

- The PC does good work and a complete reboot of the Councillors would be a BAD thing. I suspect it takes 4 years to get to know the ropes and the in’s and outs of the bureaucracy.

- The PC is divided. Unfortunately not down the middle. I suspect this has much to do with the past and personalities.
I am impressed at the attention to detail to many things, particularly the Parish Plan. Get involved as it is OUR Parish. Hats off to you Cllr Maroney. Sorry I couldn’t attend last weekend, but I was abroad doing some research on how Spain services the tourist industry and provides adequate watering holes, nutritional facilities and evening activities – I now have many ideas to bring back to the community (most will be rejected, probably rightly so !!).

- One thing I learned, the County Council listen DIRECTLY to public views related to traffic management. Ferris Cowper is man. Contact him if needs be on the debate regarding the Avenue / Yellow Lines / School. I’m still fuming about the plan for yellow lines – and can’t believe their is not a solution than involves road widening for drop of zone – but doesn’t personally impact me ! (call me selfish) - so over to you good people.

- Take time to attend a meeting or two. That way you see what is not documented. The nods, the head shakes, the snipping. Social Media and Meeting Minutes can never substitute HUMAN interaction and reading body language. All helps formulate your own opinions on Councillors and informs how you will vote in May. As a result of going to the last 2 meetings I have completely changed my opinion, which was originally largely taken from what I read on Talkback.

Finally, sorry Mr Chairman, I can’t let you off the hook this time. I gave you a chance after the last meeting – but it happened again. I know you can count, so please pay attention when it comes to very important motions and votes, but above all learn YOUR Councillors names. It wasn’t just one Councillor either. After more than 40 meetings, that is inexcusable. Other than that – great job.

That’s it for now.

Cheers, Finchie

Re: Transparency and the Publication of Council Documents
- Russ (26th Nov 2014 - 17:22:52)

We need more people like you Finchie to get the facts straight. Yes I was on the front row with you and the same as you the more meetings you attend the more you realise what a very hard job being a councillor is especially as they are volunteers with no previous experience of council work. The red tape and bureaucracy they face means they have to jump through hoops to achieve anything. I am not saying there is not room for improvement because there is but it is down to us parishioners to attend meetings and help them make the right decisions. As you have said you cannot rely on talkback for the correct information coming from people who don’t attend meetings.

As for the yellow lines in the Avenue I can tell you that the residents including myself have been working for some 25yrs trying to solve the problem with School traffic and finding ways to make it better for the parents. For all those years we have champion for a drop of zone by the playing field with a footpath across the playing field to the school.

We achieved the footpath and very nearly the drop of zone. Unfortunately it makes campaigning difficult because parents move on every few years and then loose interest but a lot of the residents have lived here a very long time, some even before the school was built.

Very few residents are complaining about the parking it is only the indiscriminate parking that is so very annoying. What more concerns us is the danger to the children walking to school. When the cars are parked so close to the junctions, which of course is illegal, you get a complete traffic jam particularly the Headley road junction.

On this junction as you know there is a crossing and when the cars are queued up the Headley road trying to get into the Avenue, traffic that just want to go on to Passfield overtake the queue, which if there is a child crossing is extremely dangerous. I witnessed this happening a couple of weeks ago when a little boy on his own ran across and was nearly killed by a car overtaking the queue.

Also when the traffic comes to a stand still in the Avenue drivers get impatient so they then drive up on the pavements. We are not grumpy old residents but we see the dangers every day and it gets worse by the year and we will continue to press for a solution for the parents before a child is killed. So lets all pull together.

You have mentioned the Parish Plan but you didn't mention the Neighbourhood Plan. Ferris Cowper stated in his report on Monday that nothing can be done without a Neighbourhood plan as it is the only plan that will be accepted by HCC for the traffic congestion in the square and identifying land for relief roads around the square which is a conservation area. Counsellor Cowper made it quite clear that there was funding available from EHDC and HCC to produce it.

As little Milland our neighbour have completed theirs and stated it wasn't that difficult we must get on with it as Liphook will be sunk without it. With all the hard work and knowledge gained from the Parish Plan I am sure it could be completed quite quickly with hardly any cost to the parish.

See you at the next meeting Finchie.

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