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Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Amanda Bain (23rd Oct 2014 - 17:04:11) Help!!! The Willows nursery in Liphook is being demolished because the parish council refuse to fund well needed repairs to the building when it is their responsibility to maintain it. They have given the Willows until December to vacate the premises, which is despicable. There is a meeting at the Peak centre in Liphook on Monday 27th October at 7.30 pm to argue this. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, we need as many people as we can to help save the Willows nursery, that so many of our children adore and benefit from. Thank you p.s If you do not support our cause, which is ultimately for the children of Liphook, please refrain from commenting as we would like to keep this positive. So remember Monday 27th Oct at 7.30 pm at the Peak centre

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - jo (23rd Oct 2014 - 17:35:49) The parish council has the money for this they just do not want to spend it - shame on this council for doing this how can they sleep at night - it's a disgrace that they can do this to willows nursery.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - chrissy (23rd Oct 2014 - 17:52:43) this is a brilliant place and we should all support it

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Nicky Brown (23rd Oct 2014 - 18:43:47) I\'ll be at the meeting on Monday! I can not understand how the council can possibly justify giving The Willows notice to quit the building when with a growing population we actually need more nursery places being made a available, especially given that Mad Hatters may also have to vacate Bohunt. All three year olds are entitled to fifteen hours of child care per week, where are they expecting that to happen? I\'m wondering what they have been spending the rent that The Willows have been paying on if it hasn\'t been, at least in part, on maintenance and repairs to the building? I\'m also wondering what they plan to do with the building if The Willows has to leave. Will it be left empty and derelict not actually generating any income or do they propose to demolish it at a cost?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - SJ (23rd Oct 2014 - 19:17:15) This is disgraceful. My daughter was a founding member of the Willows when they first set up! She is now 17 and applying for University!! Without the early years learning she received from Jacky and her team she wouldn't be where she is today.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - den (23rd Oct 2014 - 19:27:14) i hope they get the support they need

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Sean (23rd Oct 2014 - 20:03:59) This is disgusting , All 3 of my children went to Willows , Its a great facility run by caring staff ... Do we know what the repairs are and the cost ? . The council should be ashamed !!.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Han (23rd Oct 2014 - 20:24:49) Come On Liphook, to all past and present parents and children, The Willows need our help. I have seen first hand what an amazing, welcoming and hard working nursery school this is. This is absolutely outrageous how the council can even contemplate evicting the nursery. Not only will young children lose their nursery but the ladies that have built this business up could lose their jobs. The council have a duty as \'landlords\' to repair this building. Years and years of paid rent for what? Absolutely disgusting behaviour from the council. So liphook tell your friends, tell your neighbours, tell the papers and the MP\'s, it\'s time to come together and \'SAVE THE WILLOWS\'!!!!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Peter R (23rd Oct 2014 - 20:36:44) If it is true that the parish council are refusing to fund repairs for the building used by The Willows Nursery then it is indeed a disgrace. Perhaps someone from the council could place a post on here to explain their position.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Lucy (23rd Oct 2014 - 20:51:09) Both my boys went to the willows only 3 years ago, and it is the most amazing nursery. It's like a family. Children flourish, the staff care, and are so amazingly experienced. Have you spoken to the papers? Getting the council shamed may honestly make a difference. There must be so many people who don't know about this, and with pressure and media it might make all the difference. Contact The Messanger, The Herald, The Petersfield Post. See you Monday

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Rebekah (23rd Oct 2014 - 21:11:20) My name is Rebekah Killick and I am the Deputy Manager at Mad Hatter's Nursery School and I would like to assure you all that we are NOT having to close. All of us at Mad Hatter's hope that the Willows find a solution and wish them luck for Monday's meeting.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Nicky Brown (23rd Oct 2014 - 21:49:59) The Willows sent out a letter to the parents of children attending the nursery which states that they had been in negotiation with the Parish council about refurbishments. The Bramshott and Liphook Parish Plan Steering group minutes for 30th Sept include forming a working group to look at Nursery provision. The parish council recognises that Mad Hatters may have to move from Bohunt school and that The Willows building is in poor condition. They also recognise a risk of shortage of nursery places and called for a working group to prepare a report into this issue. The group was supposed to produce a report on potential solutions! However on the 8th Oct (just 8 days later) The Willows received a letter stating that the Parish council would not be willing to fund repairs and giving them notice to quit by end of term! The Parish council have offered no alternative accommodation, they have given The Willows an appallingly short amount of time to find alternative accommodation themselves or to raise the money and carry out the works required. Please, Please, Please show your support for The Willows by coming to the Parish Council meeting at 7.30 on Monday 27th October at the Peak centre. Hopefully we'll be able to make them see sense!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Steve (23rd Oct 2014 - 23:07:35) The building should be saved & listed with presavashion order put on it, as it is the last Canadian building, built by them still standing in the parish of Bramshott. This building is a part of Liphook's history don't let it go. It is also a great home for the nursery school. If the Liphook council won't change their minds don't vote for them, get new blood in that card's about out history

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Paul Robinson (24th Oct 2014 - 07:37:42) Bramshott and Liphook Parish Council welcome public attendance at their meetings, however, we wish to point out that the meeting to be held at the Peak Centre at 7.30pm on Monday 27th October is the monthly meeting of the full Council and the future of the building known as The Beacon, currently occupied by Willows Nursery, is not on the agenda. There will be an opportunity for members of the public to ask questions in respect of this matter under item 6. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 'To allow members of the public to address the Council with respect to items not on the agenda' Councillor Paul Robinson

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - jo (24th Oct 2014 - 07:38:31) come on people of liphook have you say on this its your right to have your say willows nursery needs your help dont let this council get away with this get behind willows .

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Kat (24th Oct 2014 - 08:49:19) Disgusting the way the Willows Nursery have been treated! Mr Robinson you are Chairman of the Recreation Committee so you have a lot to answer for. Making a rather patronising comment about attending a Council meeting doesn't do it for me. You don't need to invite people, because as soon as everybody heard about the Willows they were going to go anyway. No brainer really!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Ian. (24th Oct 2014 - 08:59:46) Mr Robinson. Is the Agenda published beforehand so the people of Liphook you apparently represent can see what is the Parish Councils Priority. There will be very strong feelings locally on this issue so perhaps the council should amend its agenda to allow adequate discussion of this point In answer to your question - yes - on their own website - bramshottandliphook-pc.gov.uk. To save you looking, here is a direct link to it - PC Mtg Agenda 27th October 2014

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Sean (24th Oct 2014 - 09:03:51) Guys, www.change.org allows you to setup an E Petition. We haven't got much time so this maybe the quickest way of getting the numbers we need to voice our opinion. Can I suggest someone from Willows who knows the complete story sets it up and we'll all help getting it communicated amongst the community...

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Han (24th Oct 2014 - 09:29:27) ipetitions.com/petition/save-the-willows-nursery-school Please sign this petition Many thanks We must all remember that the Willows is just a local business, not a council run facility. What they really need is help finding a new venue and maybe the landlord (council) can give them some more time to do that.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Sean (24th Oct 2014 - 09:59:23) Thanks editor, Agreed , I guess the petition will then help justify an amicable time extenstion and give the business a realistic chance of finding a positive way forward. Lets support are local businesses that give back so much to our community.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - ellie (24th Oct 2014 - 12:36:59) Although I sympathise with the nursery business, if you walk to the recreation ground and look at the building objectively, it seems to be not made of a proper construction, and probably needs a complete rebuild if it is to be rebuilt, the building must just leak out heat through the corrogated iron! A friend of mine rents a village hall locally to run a nursery, and I wonder if they have looked at this possibility?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Nicky Brown (24th Oct 2014 - 13:32:31) Councillor, I fully intend to address the council with respect to this particular issue which is not on your agenda, and I'm sure a lot of other parents will be too. I will be very interested to hear you defend your decision to not fund the repair to a building which is an asset to the community and has been providing rent. Leaving the building empty to go derelict and not earn a rent and possibly become dangerous, or demolishing the building at a cost when that money could be used for repairs seems pretty short sighted and stupid of you, especially given that we already have a thriving nursery school in the building and an increasing need for nursery places with all the new family homes being built. I guess it depends if they have been paying a full 'commercial' rent or just a 'peppercorn' one, or somewhere in between. Also the terms of the contract they signed have to be considered.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Kat (24th Oct 2014 - 13:42:13) I have told my friends and they will be going. Good luck the Willows Nursery, they are such nice people and they do a great job.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Bellers (24th Oct 2014 - 14:16:43) Is it just me who isn't surprised by our Parish Councils attitude here. No doubt there is a hidden motive which will generate more revenue with no capital outlay on their behalf. The Willows is not only an excellent nursery it is a local business and employer which contributes to our village. Get yourselves down to this meeting and make sure our views are heard Don't let the Parish Council bury this important item in section 6.PUBLIC PARTICIPATION in Mondays meeting, it deserves more prominence.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Nicky Brown (24th Oct 2014 - 15:11:15) Personally I think the amount of rent TheWillows pays is irrelevant. The fact is a thriving local business is providing rent on the building and providing an important community service, thereby making the building an important asset. It can't be an asset if it's demolished can it? If we didn't need the building the Parish council would be able to find The Willows alternative suitable accommodation but they haven't been able to do that.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - S (24th Oct 2014 - 16:00:33) I hope this does not get too militant and that people don't get blinded by their passion for the cause. I'm sure the council recognises that we need nurseries in Liphook and therefore didn't take this decision lightly. Let's give them a fair hearing and see what the costs of keeping the Willows in its current location would be. If the building is in that bad of a state, then maybe a new location could be an exciting new start for the nursery. The question seems to be one of time frames and the challenge to find a new space, so let's use the meeting to help the Willows work out a plan of action, rather than to rant and rave at the council over something that may not be the best long term option.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Si (24th Oct 2014 - 16:13:23) Is anyone from the council prepared to confirm this will be discussed in a meaningful way on Monday night? As it's "not on the "agenda" I fear a response of 'no comment' might be forthcoming.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Heather M (24th Oct 2014 - 16:55:30) Millennium Hall has plenty of rooms suitable for a nursery ! Maybe the parish council could accommodate even of just temporary until a permanent solution is found !

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - l (24th Oct 2014 - 17:25:54) As this is a discussion board......I would just like to ask why people think the council should be sorting this out. The council own the building, not the business! If they want to knock the building down then they can. We dont see the parish council re homing other local businesses? These things happen and rather than spending so much time on fighting this, why not use the time and energy in sourcing a new location if you are that worried about the short time frame which actually I personally dont think it is.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Cllr Jane Ives (24th Oct 2014 - 17:37:43) The parish council does have to comply with certain rules and one of these is that the agenda for any meeting is agreed 7 days in advance. This particular item was discussed at the last Recreation Committee meeting a couple of weeks ago as the building falls within the remit of that committee. Agendas for all council meetings are put on the parish council website well in advance of meetings to give the public the opportunity to see what is being discussed and come along to ask questions and we very much welcome this. It has to be said that on the whole very few people attend. So unfortunately the agenda can't be changed at this stage but any member of the public can come along and ask a question about items not on the agenda at the meeting. This public participation session is there to allow items to be raised such as The Willows when time has not allowed it to be added to the agenda. The chair of the meeting has the final say in how much time is spent on any question and that is very much dictated by what other business is on the agenda. Again we are bound by rules about how long a meeting can last. This is understandably a very emotive subject and I believe that all Councillors are very aware of this. I would just like to add that dialogue is happening between The Willows and the parish council and I personally very much hope we can do all we can to help this nursery provide the fantastic service it currently does for our pre school children. I would just like to add that my comments here are my personal opinion and not necessarily those of the parish council but I felt it was important to explain why the agenda can't be changed - very frustrating I know!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - dawn (24th Oct 2014 - 17:38:08) Sometimes buildings erected to be only ‘temporary’ just get too old to stay upright and due to their temporary nature the construction just gets to the end of its life. I’m sure if the nursery wanted to build a classroom etc that EHDC would look favourably on the application, but I’m not sure that throwing good money after bad to keep a building that is past redemption in place is good use of tax payers money. The fact that there is little nursery education in the area does not take away from the fact that this building is falling down and will soon be unsafe. Sticking plasters on it will not help. It is not the fault of the Parish Council that the building has got to the end of it’s use by date.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Dawn Hoskins (24th Oct 2014 - 17:50:07) Newspaper reporters using this site to either get stories instead of investigating themselves (or to stir up local trouble) should be ashamed of themselves. I wonder if the Tindle group know you are using this site under a false name Katherine?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Finchie (24th Oct 2014 - 19:44:45) I'm in Amanda. See you Monday. Got to support a great set of folk that help start Finchlet out in life. I'm sure collective brainpower will find a good way forward. However, taking the emotion out, if we lose the Willows, flatten the skatepark, go over the tennis courts and repurpose the football pitch - we have a perfect Liphook bypass. Just sayin ... Cheers, Finchie PS for those who don't know me that last bit was a joke before anyone replies thinking I was serious (shame I have to prempt that these day) !!!!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Bellers (24th Oct 2014 - 20:00:34) I think we all appreciate buildings do get to the end of their natural life. . 2 questions need to be raised to the Parish council with the hope of getting a straight answer. • How much money has the Parish council directly spent on the upkeep of this building over the past 14 years? • What is driving the decision by the Parish council to give the Willows notice? a. Unwillingness to spend money. b. Planned demolition of building. c. Renting out to another 3rd party. Both should be easy to answer, I would think Willows should also have to confirm that they have been paying a commercial rate for building. Otherwise you could be expecting the council to spend money they have not been receiving from their tenant in rent. Willows are a business making profit, one assumes.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Nicky Brown (24th Oct 2014 - 20:06:03) If the Millennium centre does have plenty of rooms suitable for a nursery why didn't the Parish council suggest this when The Willows staff asked if they had any other suitable accommodation for them to rent? I if you would rather see the building demolished at a cost to the tax payer rather than repaired and put to use for the community than that is your opinion. If you think that The Willows has been given a suitable time frame to find an alternative site perhaps you can suggest some? The council have actually done a search for the The Willows for a suitable alternate site and could not suggest one. Why should they move an established business which benefits the community when there is money available for repairs to the building they are already in? Even if the Parish council is not willing to pay for repairs to the building they haven't even given The Willows long enough to raise the money to repair the building themselves. The finance and policy committee meeting minutes for July state that there are earmarked reserves of over £120 000 for funding the Millennium centre and other council buildings, of which there are two, the Parish offices and the building occupied by The Willows. The only concession that the council has made is to offer The Willows the opportunity to provide a building at that own expense on that plot of land which is estimated to cost £20 000 - £30 000, therefore surely the cost of repairs will be lower than that? I don't know if you have been in the building recently, yes it could do with some TLC but it is hardly falling down!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - l (24th Oct 2014 - 21:08:18) Without knowing the current rental it would be difficult me to search and make a suitable suggestion but if this would like to be shared then I would be more than happy to do some research. I do think it is unfair that the parish council are being made to look like the bad ones. If you rented a house and the owner wanted to sell up etc, you woukd prob get 4 weeks to find a home for your family. Yes I think it is a shame, especially for those that work there but there are other nursery schools within the community which too are excellent. I really do hope that the Willows find a new home, and think that maybe it could be looked at as a positive. Good luck

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Nicky Brown (24th Oct 2014 - 22:03:09) Yes I agree there are two other nurseries which are also excellent but would they have room to take the 30 or so children that are entitled to their government funded fifteen hours of care if The Willows has to close because of this? What of the staff who would lose their jobs if an alternate site can not be found? We should be supporting our local businesses! This is not just about saving The Willows, there is also the building itself to consider. If the building was invested in, repaired or replaced, it could then serve the community as an asset for years to come. It doesn't have to just be used by the nursery during the day, it could also be used by other members of the community, clubs and youth services later in the day and at weekends. If The Willows do decide to move on the building can be put to other uses that serve the community. If it is demolished it will just be a little patch of land that benefits no one.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - HB (25th Oct 2014 - 05:35:34) NIcky, With respect, your post sounds very sensible on the face of it, but please be careful what you wish for. Hazlemere Sports Association in Buckinghamshire were in a similar situation to the Willows and their experience has been a nightmare. The Sports Association was for many years based in the recreation ground in an old pavilion which fell into disrepair. The Parish Council agreed to completely renovate the building at a cost of £650,000. By promising the Sports Association a “peppercorn rent”, in 2010, the council avoided paying VAT on construction costs. When work was finished, the new building, complete with a lounge bar for social functions, was opened. The various sports clubs moved back in, a volunteer committee formed and rooms were rented out to a children's day nursery, exercise classes, Brownies etc.to cover the cost of maintenance and utilities. However at the end of 2013, new Councillors were elected who were hostile to the Sports Association and they presented the Committee with a rent demand for £40,500.00 per annum. The Sports Association can only afford £3,000 per annum, so they are facing eviction at the end of November. Three chartered surveyor firms were hired by the council to determine the current commercial rent value (using taxpayers money of course.) 1200 people signed a petition of protest and the local community are all supportive of the Sports Club which caters for over 300 children in the football teams alone, plus 100 adults. But the opinion of the community has been completely ignored and the Council has now hired a big shot firm of solicitors to evict the Sports Association. More details on this website: www.hsal.co.uk/pavilion I am not necessarily suggesting this would happen here in Liphook, but the moral of the story that Hazlemere residents have learned is that when money and power are involved, fairness and the wishes of local people seem to count for little. And things are not always as straight-forward as they initially appear. Good luck to the Willows.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Kat (25th Oct 2014 - 08:45:51) Dawn Hoskins, I have told you many times that I am nothing to do with the Tindle group, I know nothing about them, and I am not a newspaper reporter, journalist or whatever way you would like to describe it. Please do not try to hijack this thread, which is about an important issue within the community, for which there is considerable support, growing daily. I am right behind the Willows Nursery, as are some of my friends, and many others. It is not about stiring up trouble but the simple fact that we have the real interests of the community at heart. Might I suggest that it would be more useful to spend your time thinking about how you and your colleagues might repair the damage that has been done by the way the council have handled all this. It appears to be amateur and most unprofessional.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Bemused (25th Oct 2014 - 12:25:20) Re Finchies comments, his 'joke' about the bypass. Try reading the parish plan which does in fact suggest this alternative route!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Heather M (25th Oct 2014 - 12:54:01) Get the Parish council abolished ! They are a complete waste of space & £££ . Hand the reigns over to EHDC . I'd vote for that ! residents-vote-abolish-byfleet-parish

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - * (25th Oct 2014 - 13:51:49) if you own a building, you then rent it out to someone, if it then needs repairs done, isnt that what you use the rent for...? if the repairs get done when they are needed, then it wouldnt cost as much if they were left...? its simple really isnt it...? i agree whats the rent been spent on over the years...? We do not know the terms of the contract or how much rent the Willows was actually paying.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Chris (25th Oct 2014 - 17:23:04) ED, looking at the council accounts they pay £5k a year for sole use, £13 per day!!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Nicky Brown (25th Oct 2014 - 18:51:53) Councillor Dawn Hoskins I am not surprised that you have taken this line given that you are on the LMC management committee. Any monies used to help the building housing The Willows would take away from the LMC which I can see from the minutes of your meetings requires ongoing maintenance and repairs. You say that 'buildings erected only temporary get too old to stay upright' . My research indicates that this building has been standing for nearly 80 years! Hardly temporary! You then go on about 'throwing good money after bad to keep a building past redemption' however I have been through the minutes that are available on the Parish website and I can find no mention of any money having ever been spent on this building, it barely ever gets a mention. I can not find any evidence of any quotes for repairs to the building. What evidence do you have that the building is 'falling down' ? Have you been in it recently? I want to know when it was condemned and who by. I want to know what the working group formed at the Parish plan steering group meeting on the 30th Sept found. The Willows owners assure me that the working group never spoke to them, they didn't see anyone inspecting the building, and yet just 8 days later they get notice to quit. The working group was supposed to liaise with the owners and produce a report on potential solutions. I look forward to reading it!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Nicky Brown (25th Oct 2014 - 19:10:59) And Councillor Hoskins re your comment 'it is not the fault of the Parish Council that the building has got to the end of it's use by date' . Well if the building is owned by the Parish Council and has not been maintained over the years, then YES it is the fault of the Parish Council! Perhaps if the recreation committee spent even a fraction of the time/money spent on maintenance of the building as you do on the LMC then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Kathrin Thorpe (25th Oct 2014 - 20:44:45) This is outrageous!!! These women have supported families and children for nearly 20 years. The care and love they give to our children has been incredible, They nurture and create an incredible environment for our children. Why should it be taken away from them and us especially when we were ready to support and raise funds to aid this lovely home. It's unfair and ridiculous! What a sham. Closure of this vital loving unit of care would end up with children and teachers being displaced. Creating uncertainty and unease. Let us help you - Parish Council to raise the funds and continue the amazing work that happens with this nursery. We are supporting you Willows - You are amazing and the love and care you give our children makes them such beautiful beings. We support you!!!!!!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - l (25th Oct 2014 - 22:49:15) 5k a year in rent is nothing!!!! No wonder the parish council are not wanting to spend any money on it.......they arent gaining from it!! (Thats if the figures are right)

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - ellie (26th Oct 2014 - 00:34:40) It would be interesting to know if that includes all bills eg heating lighting, supplies, insurance etc? these are all having to be considered if they are part of the rent? Perhaps the rental alone does not allow any repairs to be done out of that sum?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - l (26th Oct 2014 - 08:40:11) Maybe someone involved in the nursery could clarify what the rental fee is and what that covers eg. utilities etc. Then maybe some more support could be given!?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - An independent observer (26th Oct 2014 - 09:17:50) Whilst I fully understand the high emotion running through this feed as after all the nursery has for many years done an amazing job in nurturing our local children and hopefully will do long into the future, we cannot forget a few issues: 1- the building is a form of prefab and whether maintained or not they do have a limited life span 2- the nursery is a business, and has a contract of rent, like any rental agreement it can be terminated legally by either party and the usual term of notice is one calendar month ( but dependant on contract signed & agreed) 3 - the nursery being a professional and registered business ( & I assume profit making, having not seen any accounts) has a duty of care to those paying for their care to provide an environment that is safe, and if the building is unsafe due to poor maintenance then why has this not been addressed by them before it getting to a point of no return. 4- the council as landlord does have a duty of care to maintain its property but if the rent is as little as £13 per day then it's sadly not surprising that they haven't !! ( but again this is dependant on what is in the rental agreement/contract) 5- there are always 2 sides to every story and without the FULL facts of rents paid, a copy of the rental agreement to specify who is responsible for what, and a full explanation as to why the building is being withdrawn and why it is unsafe, sadly an educated and FAIR outcome/judgement for either party will never be reached !!!!!!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Trevor Maroney (26th Oct 2014 - 09:50:58) As chairman of the Parish Plan Steering Group I would just like to correct Nicky Brown's statements relating to our working party on nursery provision. The Steering Group is independent of the Parish Council. Our working group is looking at the long term nursery provision as part of our remit. We are aware that more nursery places are required currently, even more when the 800 new houses are built, and will be speaking to providers on their future plans in due course. If you have read the Plan and minutes of our meetings at www.liphookplan.co.uk you will have realised that we are looking at the long term future of the whole parish. With regard to the state of the Willow's building,the action being taken by the Parish Council is entirely rational and based upon sound evidence. Painful as it may seem, there is not a bottomless pit to public finance nor is it beholden upon the Parish Council to provide nursery facilities, as you will find out if you attend Monday night's meeting. If you disagree with me on this issue and are happy that the Parish Council should greatly increase Council Tax to pay for nursery facilities then you do need to make your views known to the Parish Plan Steering Group, not the Council, using your true identities and addresses. If enough of you really support such as stance we will include it in the Plan. Cllr. Trevor Maroney Chairman BLPP

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Nicky Brown (26th Oct 2014 - 12:20:51) Councillor Trevor Maroney thank you so much for your reply on this thread. It is nice to hear a sensible and positive reply from one of the Council members. I am sorry that I misunderstood that the Steering group is independent to the Parish Council, I thought you were working for them. It is reassuring that you are looking at the long term nursery provision for the community and recognise that more nursery places are needed. If there is sound evidence to support the Parish council decision to demolish the building then I look forward to hearing it on Monday. It obviously is so current to have not been the subject of any minutes so there are no minutes available documenting this on the Parish web site. I do understand that it is not beholden upon the Parish Council to provide nursery facilities, however until the Steering group is able to come up with a long term solution with the EHDC what will happen with government funded nursery places in the short term? If the nursery can't find suitable accommodation for rent does that mean our children just don't get the government funded places they are entitled to? It seems to me that the Parish Council could be doing something more positive to help The Willows which is providing an essential community service to pre-schoolers and their parents. Rather than just saying 'we're demolishing the building, you need to leave". Also I don't understand your comment about raising taxes to pay for pre-school nursery provision. We already pay our taxes to the government, who in turn provide government funded nursery places. Surely the council then makes sure there is adequate provision for the communities needs. This is suggested by your post above that the Steering group is looking into long term nursery provision for the community, so why would we need to pay more taxes for something we are already entitled to?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Heather M (26th Oct 2014 - 12:30:53) Not a bottomless pit but happy to waste thousands & thousands of tax payers money on legal fees & compensation . Don't make me laugh !

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - lucy (26th Oct 2014 - 13:46:28) Who on earth do you think you are Trevor? Every post which is passionate to the community is totally and utterly ignored by the parish council aged EHDC. You don't take a blind bit of notice of what the residents of Liphook say. Not every one can come to meetings, that doesn't mean we don't care or can't be bothered to come. Liphook Talk back is the perfect opportunity for residents to voice their opinion and for YOU to listen. Most village residents don't want all the new housing, but you don't listen. People do not want the Willows to close or be forced out. Do you listen? You actually don't give a hoot what this village wants. Why are the Councilors on the Parish Council? What difference do YOU actually make? You are like all politicians, you don't listen. You are talking about children's physical, emotional and social well-being. The Willows is exceptional at meeting the needs of our community. Work with the community and the staff in resolving this. You should be very ashamed of yourselves

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - tony (26th Oct 2014 - 15:05:53) Perhaps whilst granting planning permission for a thousand new houses over the past few years, the council should have put aside a little space for a purpose built new nursery facility to cater for all the new children that will come with them. No doubt they've included funding for the obligatory social/affordable housing to cope with the outpouring from the cities, it seems we could be left with a massively growing population yet creaking old infrastructure. Aren't they supposed to be building commercial units near the OSU site, how about a purpose built nursery? With a little sensible negotiating, surely they could carry out temporary repairs to see them over till then? Or how about contacting the Lottery or English Heritage if the building merits preserving in it's own right?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Steve (26th Oct 2014 - 20:40:12) You put the Liphook tax up higher than any other local council. It's going to cost £8000/£10000 to knock the building down that must be over half the price of repairing it!!!! You on the council forget yr here for the people of Liphook & not just yr narrow minded views. The gossip is you want to build a drop in center there. So who would fund this??? You have trouble filling the millennium centre. If you bud something else yr need more staff ect ect. This building was built by the Canadians & should be looked after for that reason. The only reason this building needs lots of work because people on the council have had the minimal done to it as possible. So the high cost of repairs is the councils falt no body else's, pay up & shut up do what the Liphook people want done.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - I (26th Oct 2014 - 20:42:15) There are 2 other fantastic nurseries in the village who I am sure could cater for more children to join them so I personally dont think its a problem and those children will not lose out on their funded hours. There are also some fab nurseries in the surrounding areas! Is anyone going to confirm what rent is paid?? Seems this is not wanting to be answered???

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Kat (27th Oct 2014 - 08:55:05) Mr Maroney has revealed all. In my opinion, he is using his position as Chairman of the Parish Plan Group to pre-empt and shape the Parish Plan before it has even been decided, by influencing the Parish Council in his capacity as a councillor. He even signs his thread with both hats on. Independent by name but certainly not by membership. So what the Council appear to be doing is wanting to demolish the Willows site to build a multi purpose drop in centre in its place on the Recreation Ground and Mr Maroney is busy telling councillors this is what they should do. And they haven't got any money for repairs because they are having to pay out legal fees and compensation to an employee by the sounds of things. A little notice eviction of the Willows Nursery without any previous consultation, when they thought the building would be refurbished, shows how inept the Parish Council have been in handling this whole debacle.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Steve (27th Oct 2014 - 14:13:11) Kat yr 100% right, they say there is no money to repair the building, but sounds like they can find funds to build a new building. The council are full off bull s--t

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Nicky Brown (27th Oct 2014 - 17:16:05) Yes, there are two other nurseries in the village that may be able to cater for a few more children, but as I have said before, they are unlikely to be able to accommodate the thirty or so children that will need places if The Willows has to close. So YES there is a definite risk that some children will lose out on their funded hours. Yes there maybe some fab nurseries in the surrounding area but most of the parents I see at drop off and pick up actually WALK their children to and from nursery. Most actually do the school run and then the nursery run on foot when the weather permits. I also know of at least one parent that doesn't own a car. What do you propose these parents do if they can't find a place in the Parish? Do you want to see an increase in cars through Liphook? I do not want my daughter having to go to nursery outside of Parish. I want her to make friends with some of the children she will be going to school with in September to make that transition easier. I can not confirm the rent paid by The Willows as I do not work there. However if you read further up the thread someone has suggested that it is £5000. Sounds like a small amount? How much would you pay for a small hall with a tiny kitchen and two toilets that is supposedly falling down? I do know that The Willows paid to have the flooring done and they do the decorating themselves. If the rent is £5000 per annum then over the time The Willows has been there that is still £70000. I think it's pretty clear that nowhere near that amount has been spent on the building over the years as we wouldn't be in this predicament.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - l (27th Oct 2014 - 18:08:17) I am sure that the other nurseries have the space between them, they are larger buildings they may just need to take on some more staff. £5000 a year is nothing for a profit making business.....its not difficult to do the sums and work out an estimated net income. £5000 a year will barely cover anything and the parish should be making a profit too. Who cuts the grass outside the nursery so that they can use it for the children to play outside, who maintains the park so that they can take the children over there to play? Who maintains the paths and carpark? As a parent myself, if I was in this position, I would be starting to look at the other nurseries and trying to get my child a place ready for the new year rather than waiting to see what happens. Am I right in that The Willows only offers 4 days a week where as the other nurseries offer 5? This will also help with them being able to take on more children.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Shauna Horsley (27th Oct 2014 - 20:35:39) Just been to the Meeting with the Parish Councillors - have to say they were not interested, "we don't have the time for any more questions", thought their time was our time.... how wrong was I. Questions asked were not answered, no compromise or suggestions as to how we can get the current intake of children through this scholastic year without having to change school. My suggestion is to take up their request that any further questions are put it writing to the Council, let us all put pen to paper please

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Dawn Hoskins (27th Oct 2014 - 21:51:54) No one is saying that there is a ‘problem’ with the service. What is being said is that a building is now at the end of its life. That is all. The building is a prefabricated building, not a permanent structure. The Willows have known this fact from the start. The Parish Council have invested in, repaired and maintained the building over these years as they are legally obliged to do, but cannot make it into something which it is not. They cannot prevent deterioration. ‘Maintaining’ is very different from ‘improving’. The Parish Council have to act in a legal way. This is a ‘leased’ building (albeit at a peppercorn rent), the tenants can be given notice in the normal manner - in the same way as any tenant can be given notice – this is standard practice and there is nothing underhanded about it. The Parish Council have at no time tried to ‘bury’ this issue. This was an Agenda item at the last Recreation meeting, published in advanced put on every notice board in the village, and on the website. There is no ‘hidden motive’ to generate revenue or any such thing. There will not be a multi-purpose ‘drop in’ centre built by the Parish Council. The Parish Council do not build buildings. The structure cannot be left empty or be allowed to fall derelict as the Parish Council are responsible for ensuring safety and this would be an uninsurable risk. Funds allocated for set projects are not affected by matters arising. So if funds have been earmarked for a roof-repair at the LMC, or a path on the recreation ground, the Willows maintenance fund will not affect those projects. It is entirely untrue to state that money used to help The Willows would take away from the LMC or anywhere else. It is not the job of the Parish Council to provide Education for any age-group, the onus is on the Government for School age Children and (generally) private business providers for nursery provision). There are a number of nursery providers in our area and none of them are run by, or on behalf of, the Parish Council. They are private businesses that pay rent and take fees. There have been calls for Councillors to speak here, yet when they do they are abused. This is not a Council site – the place to speak to Councillors is at the Council Meetings and the place to get information (any information you want) is from the Clerk at the Haskell Centre. Open every day. It is not patronising to say this – just the truth. LMC has many rooms, but the majority are booked out on a regular daily basis. Parish Councillors do not want extra houses either, but are constrained by Government quotas. In any event, the Parish Council do not make the decisions, EHDC do. It is not that we don’t listen – just that we can’t follow. We cannot be ashamed by this – that is the job – we get given rules and we follow them. The Parish Plan has nothing to do with the Parish Council. All Parish Council decisions occur after voting. Even if one Councillor states their opinion, their voice is only 1 out of 12 and Councillors make their own decisions based on their own thought processes. A point was made about tax. Tax paid to central government does not go to Parish, District or County Councils. It goes to central government and stays there to fund the benefit system and public services etc. If there was a local need for an extra £20k to build a nursery, then this would have to be raised from local taxes. The tax that you already pay does not cover the construction of buildings. The Parish budget is set every year and every penny accounted for. This information is all on-line and in monthly reports. We already have a high rate to pay for what we have, and even that is criticized. I do not think it would be fair to ask parishioners to pay even more to provide for one business when it has not provided for others. It would be a fabulous place to be if the village was given funds to build a Cricket Pavilion, a Football Pitch & Clubhouse, a Swimming Pool, Allotments, a bypass…….if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Shauna Horsley (27th Oct 2014 - 22:07:14) how very patronising, I went to the Parish Meeting to ask questions, and was told that you didn't have any more time..... what forum would you suggest I use?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Jill Cooke (27th Oct 2014 - 22:07:30) On behalf of The Willows, we would just like to thank all our wonderful parents past and present for caring enough to come and support us tonight.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Steve (27th Oct 2014 - 22:22:14) Dawn & I you talk out Yr bottom!!!! This building is not at the end of its life, if it was a house yes it would be, but for what it is this building with a bit of love, can see 100 more years of service. If you were a part of the village, not somebody that's moved in that has far to much to say!!!! The village is being pulled apart by all the old buildings ect being taken away, just because!!! So what if they only pay £5000 rent!!! One of my relatives years ago gave the ground to the village. Let true people that care about the village make divisions about it past history. Dawn you are like I totally a wast of space!!!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - k (27th Oct 2014 - 22:33:59) Where were u tonight dawn hoskins? I am shocked at the disinterest of the parish council tonight. The chair seemed more interested in his power trip over how many minutes of the councils time we were priviledged to have rather than the critical issue of our ongoing children\'s education and care.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - l (28th Oct 2014 - 05:46:35) Great response Dawn!! I find it very frustrating how this is being put across to people and people are being given the wrong information / not all the facts!! A facebook page has now been set up saying that the council are 'closing' the Willows. The Willows is a privately run business with I believe 3 equal owners. All the council are saying is that the building is not fit for purpose so quite rightly giving notice. I certainly wouldn't want my child going to a nursery in a building that was not structually stable or past its day. Rather than ffighing a losing battle, why doesnt everyone use this time to research other buildings and areas so that The Willows can still run. Carrying on like you are now, its sad to say but the business will close. Look at the local area and where could benefit from a nursery. Those that can will follow so you keep some business and those that cant, well you will find new business. But you need to act now, find a venue and get advertising! !! Turn this into a positive......yes its going to be hard work but you seem to have a lot of support so use that to help you. Everyone needs to stop blaming the council and move on. I certainly dont want any of my taxes spent on someone elses profit making business

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - l (28th Oct 2014 - 07:41:40) Getting personal Steve....very mature! I fully support the Nursery still carrying on I just do not support the way it is being blamed on the parish council. I have stated this all along. And for your information Steve I have not just moved in.......I was born and bred in the village as was my Mum, my Mums Mum, my Dads Mum and my Dads Dad was a Canadian that moved here. I fully support the Village and want it to be the best as it can be as my child too will be growing up here!!!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - helen (28th Oct 2014 - 09:28:40) The issues are more important than who has lived here the longest! I am sure that many parents who send childen to the Willows are not long term residents, so what? The last poster seems to think the building should not need to be as well constructed as a house. Well, children attend there until 3-pm some days, and it is important they are housed well. If the canadians built it as a temporary first world war structure, then they would not expect it still to be in use for your young children now? and 5k a year inclusive of heat light, business rates, and other domestic supplies paid for, is nothing. It is not surprising is it that the council want to find a better solution to the problem than keep funding the building? If it was properly re built and refurbished, a commercial full repairing lease would be 3 times that much these days! A commercial landlord would not expect to keep the rent back each year purely to pay for repairs, as has been suggested the Parish Council should?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Kat (28th Oct 2014 - 09:30:27) Dawn Hoskins You have been chastising people including myself, on this website, to attend meetings and asked questions. People went to the meeting last night to ask questions and got no answers whatsoever. It was a farce. You did not go to the meeting and all you can do is make patronising comments. You and your colleagues seem to have no interest whatsoever in enabling a resolution to this issue and appeared disinterested and dismissive. There was not one single suggestion from any of them, and only two councilors actually spoke! The proposals the Willows made at the meeting seemed to be entirely sensible and reasonable and were largely ignored. I think it was a District Councillor, who also made a good suggestion about the heritage of the building and what could be done. You said that "The Parish Council have at no time tried to ‘bury’ this issue. This was an agenda item at the last Recreation meeting, published in advanced put on every noticeboard in the village and on the website". This is not true, there was no such thing published for us to see – FACT. You are misleading the community by making such statement. In my opinion, and that of many others, that just goes to prove that the Council was trying to bury this issue by hiding it away in one of your many secret meetings, that you continue to hold behind closed doors. You obviously have so many secret meetings that you yourself seem unable to distinguish between fact and fiction. By the way, a peppercorn rent is a very small amount of money that is paid by someone who is renting a building or piece of land so that the arrangement between them and the owner of the property is legal. An example is where an organisation secures a 20 year lease on a building at a peppercorn rent of £1 that being the total payment. I don't think £64,000 over the last 10 years or so could be classed as a peppercorn rent. Simples! And some other things. From what I can see the building is not pre-fabricated it is a permanent structure, and if it was sections could be replaced. The length of notice you have given them is completely unreasonable in the circumstances, and I am sure the Parish Council could build buildings if they wanted to. The Willows building was left empty for many many years, and there is no visibility of what the council set projects are and their cost. I believe it is your job to enable whatever you can within the community on our behalf. Councillors have not been abused on this website, and councillors don’t answer questions. You don’t have a Clerk any more but an Executive Officer as that is what is says on the agenda paper I was given. You obviously weren't paying attention when the Council made that decision, or don’t read the agenda, or thought it was a secret. Shauna Horsley is right - put pen to paper to the Council and get answers from them to all the questions that need to be answered. Well done the Willows for bringing this issue to our attention. You deserve to be treated better.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Jane Ives (28th Oct 2014 - 10:50:37) This is clearly an emotive issue and rightly so. The upshot of last night's meeting is that there will be a meeting held imminently to continue the negotiations between the parish council and The Willows. Everyone wants a solution to this horrible situation and far better that the two sides work together to achieve this. I am a Councillor who attended last night and it was very obvious the depth of feeling amongst those that attended. It wasn't really for individual councillors to have their say as there were many members of the public who wanted to ask questions in the limited time available. But a clear message was transmitted and some suggestions for a way forward were made, hence a meeting to follow.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Dawn Hoskins (28th Oct 2014 - 12:19:39) Shauna Horsley. I am not trying to patronise, just say how it is without bringing emotions into it. We must deal in facts not emotions. As Agendas are set in stone they are very immovable. These are not rules made up by the Parish Council, but rules imposed upon us by government. It was never a good forum to discuss the nursery when the item was not on the Agenda. It was very unfortunate that when it was on the Agenda – despite being publicised – no one attended. Therefore my suggestion to you is that a request is made to the Clerk to have the issue put on the Agenda again (either at Recreation Committee or at Full Council) when you can specifically request what information you wish to be discussed. This must be done approx’ 2 weeks before the meeting at which you wish to discuss it in order for the Agenda to be set, for notices to be put up on notice boards and on the website etc. It was bad advice that you were given to come to a meeting to discuss an issue that was not up for debate – but that does not mean the Council are not interested – just that it was not on the Agenda for this meeting. This talkback site is great but Councillors who don’t like being abused will not use it. I also do not like being abused but perhaps am more able to shrug it off (although it is still hurtful). Steve ____________. The structure was a prefab which are by design – temporary. You may wish that this was not the case – but that is the fact of the matter. I have been a part of the village for 15 years, I am sorry you don’t think that that is long enough, but I do consider myself a part of this community regardless of your thoughts on my residency. With regard to having a say – I have always used this site and will always continue to regardless of whether I am a Councillor. Councillors are constantly asked to provide answers and yet when one of us does we are told we are saying too much - or the facts we are giving out are not facts. The facts are what you have been given – the issue is that you do not like the facts that you are being presented with and you wish to blame someone (anyone) for these facts. Slightly off the issue at hand but I will respond on your point re: old buildings being demolished - whether houses are built or demolished etc is not an issue where the Parish Council are decision makers – the Planning Committee do their best to give guidance to EHDC but that is all it ever is – guidance. Even this guidance can only be drawn up in accordance with the planning regulations set by government. K – Since my cardiac arrest I am not able to attend all the meetings I would like. This does not mean I am not interested. Additionally I knew that this was not an item on the Agenda and time would be too limited to have any meaningful discussion on the issue. The procedures the Council have to follow are very strictly laid down. It is a shame that people were told to attend this meeting instead of the one where it was discussed. This was misguided advice and was only ever going to lead to dissatisfaction. This issue is essentially about a building and what to do with a building. The fact that the lessees run a nursery will not alter the decision that must be made about the building. Also K, despite many Councillors having interest and passion over children’s education – it is not something that this level of local government have any say in or control over. I am not saying that some sort of compromise is out of reach - but that this has to be done in the correct way. Before I became a Parish Councillor I was horrified by the seemingly archaic systems in place and wanted to change the way things were run. I soon found out that your hands are tied as far as all procedures are concerned. Government set the rules and they are set in stone. The system is not fluid enough to deal with the fast paced world we live in, where we demand instant answers. As my health has interfered with my input levels, I will probably not stand at the next local election. The cost of a by-election (which happens when a Councillor resigns) would be about £5,000 and I do not want this on my conscience – so have been doing my best to muddle through. However, I do believe you have a right to know what we had to deal with and how bad it was. One of the contributors to this thread is repeatedly talking about ‘compensation’ and ‘legal fees’ and I truly believe that until the people of this Parish get to see the report (that they as tax payers had to pay for) regarding that issue – then you will not know which Councillors did what, and why. Transparency has been sadly lacking in this area and it has been tremendously frustrating for me as a Councillor. It will always be an issue for the village unless it is brought out in the open despite undoubtedly being a very sad chapter. In May you can decide who you want to vote for. I hope that those of you who have spoken passionately about the village will stand up and be counted – put your name on the form - and stand for election.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Dawn Hoskins (28th Oct 2014 - 12:36:38) I would just add, I am not on the Recreation Committee but received the minutes from the meeting. As the item was discussed it should have been on the Agenda as and item (with a number against it). If that has not happened, as it has been stated by one of the anonymous posters here, then that is indeed a problem. I hope that due procedure has been followed, the item Agenda'd , minuted and fully discussed before voting.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Former Resident (28th Oct 2014 - 13:39:05) I have been following this thread with interest. Please can someone tell me on what Agenda this item was listed for public discussion? Former resident

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Shauna Horsley (28th Oct 2014 - 13:52:49) Not quite set in stone - following extract from Parish Council Agenda yesterday "The period of time which is designated for public participation shall not exceed 15 minutes except at the discretion of the Chairman." I would also like to know why the Parish Meeting on the 6th October was CLOSED to the Public, and do we have the right to ask for the minutes of that meeting?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Frances (28th Oct 2014 - 14:36:11) I have been following this thread with interest. I feel it is a great shame that such an important subject -namely that of pre-school education - has been hi-jacked on here by personalities who seem to be using the subject to their own ends. Surely Dawn should not have commented in such detail when she didn't attend the meeting last night. There are also some factually inaccurate postings - namely the Parish Council did have a structural survey carried out at The Willows and have taken their advice from that report - and secondly the Parish Council have also paid for repairs to the floor of that building - not the owners of The Willows Nursery. I fear this will not be resolved while these inflammatory and inaccurate postings continue - thus muddying the water. All parties need to pull together for the good of the children.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Jane Ives (28th Oct 2014 - 14:41:27) Shauna The meeting on the 6th October did exclude members of the public. The reason this happens is that occasionally there may be confidential staffing or contract issues that need to be discussed, as was the case here. I'm sure you can appreciate that matters such as these can't be discussed in public to protect the members of staff that the council employs. This would apply to any corporate employer in that they wouldn't dream of discussing staff issues with members of the public present.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Peter R (28th Oct 2014 - 14:44:45) At the meeting last night we were told that the question of the condition of the building which is leased to The Willows Nursery was on the Agenda for the latest Recreation Committee Meeting held on 6 October. Ergo they and we were told last night that it should NOT have therefore have come as a surprise/shock that the Parish Council would be sending a notice of imminent eviction. I copy below the Agenda and I cannot see an agenda item referring to the building which is currently leased to The Willows - can you? If you cannot see an agenda item on the subject either, how on earth were the owners of The Willows supposed to know? Rec-Agenda-6th-October-2014.pdf

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Allison (28th Oct 2014 - 14:55:53) Dawn – could you please clarify? You state, “As Agendas are set in stone they are very immovable.” Please tell me why the item on a Neighbourhood Plan was removed from the agenda by Cllr. Croucher at the start of the meeting on 29 September, but an item on Willows Nursery could not be added to the agenda for the meeting last night. You also state, “It was very unfortunate that when it was on the Agenda – despite being publicised – no one attended.” Do you mean the meeting on 6 October when item 18 was listed as EXCLUSION OF MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC AND PRESS ........Proposed by the Chairman The excluded session is to consider the Beacon Building.” I have lived here 5 years and had never heard the building occupied by The Willows referred to as The Beacon Building but as of half an hour ago I discovered they are one and the same. Had anyone spotted this on the agenda, they would have been excluded from the discussion anyway. There is nothing in the minutes of that meeting covering the discussion in excluded session. Could you explain that please? The Beacon Building was also on the agenda for the meeting of the Recreation Committee on 4 August at item 15. That again is A SESSION FROM WHICH THE PUBLIC AND PRESS WERE EXCLUDED. The agenda states, “The excluded session is to consider the works required at the beacon building and consider options for the building. There is also a quotation for repairs to approve for which there will be a public minute.” Again, had anyone wanted to attend for that item they would not have been allowed to hear the discussion. Where is the public note? I attended the meeting last night, the first Parish Council meeting I have attended, and I was disgusted at the arrogant and dismissive attitude of the council. Scores of people turned up and they were not listened to. Moreover, Councillor Robinson stated quite clearly that the surveyor’s report was available at the Parish Office and anyone could read it. When I asked for a copy this morning I was told by the Executive Officer that it was not the policy of the council to release that report. When I asked why he had not challenged Councillor Robinson last night on that point, he told me that he did not hear Councillor Robinson. I have checked with others who were there, and we all heard the same thing. It is disappointing that the person taking the minutes was unable to hear.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Heather M (28th Oct 2014 - 14:57:46) Before YOU were a councillor , Mrs Hoskins, I remember many times when you were abusive to the then Councillors . Bit different now that the boot is on the other foot ! Your undoing is that you were once a proactive & very vocal/highly strung member of this site & now that you are a Councillor you don't like it when others do the same to you !

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Nicola (28th Oct 2014 - 15:38:52) There isn't room for sympathy where a Councillors health is concerned Dawn, unfortunately . You should know this better than anyone , after your outburst in an EHDC meeting a few years ago regarding my resignation from the Council (due to personal reasons as cited at the time) ,however you took it upon yourself to question my mental health in a public meeting because I refused to side with either side of a very split council at the time . I had just been diagnosed with a degenerative disease which has now landed me up in a wheelchair & at the time didn't really want my personal life broadcast all over the Internet & splashed across the papers , that's why I cited Personal Reasons in the press release that I had to give . I had to scale down my voluntary obligations & concentrate on myself. I was absolutely appalled when reading the minutes of that meeting & to be quite frank, I could have sued to the hills !! (And no doubt cost the taxpayers more ££ but didn't) Very admirable that you are refraining from resigning to save the tax payers money . I suppose that's one thing we do have in common . Good luck to the Willows . Less meetings , more action needed !

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - JamesP (28th Oct 2014 - 16:26:38) If this really is the last Canadian wartime building in the area then there is always the possibility of listing it to preserve it...

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Candice (28th Oct 2014 - 16:28:43) Oh my goodness. I have never had the misfortune to meet Ms Hoskins, but doesn't she come over as extremely patronising & a complete jobsworth! I for one don't have any faith in the Parish Council. I've followed this board for some time & it would appear that they are all have their own agendas I sincerely hope that the Willows can continue to operate in Liphook, both my children attended and we're so very happy. Are there any options for the public to fundraise or be a bit more hands on? It would seem sensible at least for the current cohort due to move to year R next September to be able to finish off their pre-school education at the Willows. Good luck to the Willows.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Dawn Hoskins (28th Oct 2014 - 16:30:22) Allison, set periods of notice are laid down in law before a discussion can take place. This is to enable parties to read any documents or gather information etc. So, if the Willows was on the Agenda - Councillors would gather all the available information to enable them to answer questions or have a debate with other Councillors. A minimum of three clear working days must be given if any paperwork is to be digested which is around 5 – 7 regular days depending on the weekends. The issue regarding the Neighbourhood Plan was due to a conflict. The Parish Council are in favour of discussing a Neighbourhood Plan which would be a huge financial investment, but cannot support individual property developers as this would lead to calls of bias. As this was a risk it had to be pulled. This is rare (never happened before to my knowledge), but there is a big difference between speaking without due notice and not speaking when you have a choice. One is deemed illegal and one isn't. The Neighbourhood Plan is really important so was rescheduled for as soon as possible [Monday 3rd November]. I hope that clarifies it a bit. The Beacon Building is where the Willows Nursery meet, I need to speak to other Councillors to find out what has happened with the Agenda as I can’t see it either, but if an issue is deemed confidential it would be put into an excluded session – the minutes would not then be available. The only reason I can think for this to be confidential is if financial quotes were being discussed – but I am going to try to investigate this. So I'm sorry I can’t explain that yet as I don’t know, but will do my very best to find out for you. I have already explained why people were dissatisfied. It is great that people want to come to discuss – but it needs to be at a meeting that has been convened with this purpose in mind. I do not know about the surveyor’s report but will also investigate this. Heather, I don’t remember ever being personally abusive to anyone. Challenging them yes, abusive no. I have always been proactive and vocal – that is why I became a Councillor – because I didn't like the dysfunctional nature of what existed previously. Instead of moaning about it, I stood for election to try to fix it, which has largely been achieved. Challenging people for detail and asking for facts is good community minded behaviour but hiding behind anonymity and throwing insults which have nothing to do with the discussion is rude, pointless and unacceptable. In real life you wouldn't do it so don’t do it on-line. Nikki, not asking for sympathy – I was asked why I didn't attend and it is because of my health. Question asked and answer given. Lets keep this thread about The Willows now.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - chrissy (28th Oct 2014 - 17:39:00) I am really disappointed in Dawn Hoskins. She used to write eloquently about the need for services for young people on this forum before she became a parish councillor and I felt that she would make a real positive contribution to the council. I remember her writing about her own children needed to go to Bordon for things or Haslemere swimming pool. I also was pleased to see another woman on the council since Anna James left and admired Dawn's postings on Talkback. Sadly she has contributed absolutely nothing to the village and should have resigned when she fell ill as this could have made space for a productive parish councillor out there to represent us properly and fully rather than, I am sorry to say, in a half hearted way and just a wasted opportunity which I consider to have been Dawn s net contribution to the village. Very sad and what a waste when we could have had someone more productive out there fighting for the community to get the best for the community, rather than provide such lame excuses.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - B (28th Oct 2014 - 18:19:39) Hmmm I think people need to stop being so harsh on Dawn!! Its getting a little personal now and that is not fair!! Seems people dont like to know the facts. I tell you what, those of you that think the parish council ate in the wrong, put a letter to the council saying that you are happy for your council tax to be upped so that there is a budget for all the nurseries in the village! I certainly dont see why I should have to pay towards a private profit making business!!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - ? (28th Oct 2014 - 18:49:17) the willows were not told about the meeting on the 6th october and the fact that their nursery was going to be discussed...otherwise im pretty sure they would of attended to support theirselves...but as afew have said above the public were blocked from going...? so when were the willows ment to discuss the nursery in the meeting...?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - M (28th Oct 2014 - 19:21:16) I really can't see what there is to discuss here, the beacon is not fit for purpose, the willows have been given notice, end of story, because no other business would be given any preference and I certainly do not wish to pay for someone else's profit gain, the children are not going to lose out or suffer they are very adaptable to change, I'm sure there is enough room at the other nurserys to to cope with an increase of children and the staff that have lost their jobs can apply for jobs at the nurserys that have a child increase, simple nobody loses. This thread now needs to stop as it is obvious that some people are becoming a bit to personal !!!!!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Jane Ives (28th Oct 2014 - 19:56:23) There were two meetings on the 6th October. One was, as I said above, a meeting to discuss a staffing issue and was an exempt session for the reason stated above. The other was the Recreation Committee meeting which had an exempt session to consider the Beacon building where The Willows is housed. My fellow councillor Paul Robinson did state at the meeting last night in public session that a number of meetings (3 if I recall correctly) have already been held between The Willows staff and the parish council with another to follow very shortly. So last night's meeting wasn't the first, nor is it the last, opportunity for discussion to find a way forward which I personally sincerely hope can be achieved.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Shauna Horsley (28th Oct 2014 - 20:06:03) B - I don't think the Tenants of the Beacons Building, i.e. Willows Nursery are asking for your money, they are just asking for a sensible period of time to make alternative arrangements for the children that they are currently educating and nurturing. With regards to the missing items on agendas, meetings closed to the public etc, I have today written to the Chairman of the Parish Council to establish a "timeline" of the events that have led up to this situation, not to point fingers, but to make sure that honest and transparent practice can be proved. It will not change anything, but it is an opportunity to establish trust or otherwise in the workings of our Parish Council

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Val (28th Oct 2014 - 20:30:47) The more I read of this Thread, the worse it gets. I did not know that The Willows nursey was held in the Beacon Building nor I suspect did many other people. Very clever smokescreen and anyway members of the press and the public were excluded from hearing about this item - why? This parish council has more exclusion meetings than any other parish council I have ever known. A well run parish council hardly ever has exclusion meetings - the exclusion is very, very rarely used by a responsible and transparent parish council and usually implemented when subjects like staff salaries are discussed. I was at the meeting last night and I think it was insulting to all those people who took the trouble to attend that Cllr Croucher only initially allotted 10 minutes for the subject of The Willows. Arrogant just isn\'t the word. Time and again on Liphook Talkback the public are being urged, particularly by Dawn Hoskins, to attend council meetings. Now I can see why they don\'t - a complete waste of time. The people who attended last night came away feeling frustrated and ignored and I don\'t blame them. Cllr Robinson did indeed state at the meeting that a copy of the surveyor\'s report could be obtained from the parish office and it says it all that the Parish Clerk or has he been promoted to Executive Officer, said he did not hear him say that when Allison requested one this morning. Throughout the whole meeting which was being recorded, the Clerk did absolutely nothing. Well I could do that. He took no notes and was not consulted at any stage of the proceedings. I have been to other parish council meetings and the Clerks there were very much consulted and all of them took notes. I am not surprised he didn\'t hear Cllr Robinson\'s statement - I don\'t think he was either interested or listening. I wonder how much he gets paid. Roll on May 2015 and we can vote this bunch off the council.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Finchie (29th Oct 2014 - 10:18:51) In a very rare post during the week … but given I saw yesterday the posts went from 40 to 90 in 2 days – my small effort to bring some balance, I just wanted to share my perspective from the meeting: Before going into the facts – let me state my opinion: I stand very qualified to comment as my mother ran a nursery for 30+ years. It is impossible to categorise a nursery a business. They do not exist to make a profit for shareholders or owners. They survive (FACT). They are run by people who do it for the love of educating and interacting children. They are now faced with endless bureaucracy of ofsted. If you actually take into the account the time those involved put in vs what they are paid you will find that they will be on <£1 / hour (FACT for my mothers nursery). Hence my absolute passion for supporting the Willows as these must be viewed as an integral part of the community. For example, I suspect behind the scenes no-one is paid to do the books (as was the case with my mothers nursery – my father did them at no charge obviously). Hence I think those with children have a duty to support all nurseries !! Add to that my other observation. The Parish Councillors are all volunteers as well, so take the above hourly calculation you get “divide by zero” (one for the techies among you !!). Unless you want to stand up and be counted and put yourself forward as a councillor – those we elected need our support (PS I’m not prepared to step forward but enjoy dipping in and making half-arsed attempts at conflict resolution – that’s my contribution!). So our baseline is many people putting their valuable personal time for the betterment of the community and I just keep coming back to that fact in this situations when I’m on the verge of being over-critical of anyone !!! To the meeting: I had thought I had gone back in to the dark ages so in an effort to do some research into the meeting structure and how the 8,500 parish councils are guided - www.nalc.gov.uk Which I found extraordinarily dull and it helped me fall asleep last night – but gives all a sense of how councils are guided to structure everything. I will state that my reading is that this is not law – only government guidelines. Clearly there are elements of law (e.g. employment law). When in doubt Common Sense should prevail ! I do hold the Chairman entirely accountable for the complete lack of flexibility during the meeting on what was clearly a hot topic of public interest. In my books an exceptional circumstance. Said guidelines recommend up to a maximum of 3 hours and on the basis you started at 7:30 finished at 8:50, it was about 40 minutes running through the other agenda items (and suspect that is pretty typical), so there would have been plenty of time for healthy input / debate / education all around. Everything is at the discretion of the Chairman. A better approach would have driven through the other topics from 7:30 to 8:15 – then used the remaining time for the Willows. Just my feedback for the future – meant in a positive way :-). Rats – its that Common Sense eating away at me again ! So to the facts:- The Parish Council do have Health and Safety obligations in renting out the Willows (and actually protect our money from pouring money down a legal drain in case of a litigation issue – at least something has been learnt from the past few years). The building has not been condemned. Rather – very serious safety concerns raised. Which we should all take on face value. I was pleasantly surprised that Councillor Robinson had already done good research into options explored (such as army surplus moveable units) , the challenge seems to be the lack of time to properly do this. I did like the businessman's constructive comments (not local businessman – but a farmer). "If this was a business and the building had been condemned there are countless suppliers of temporary accommodation that could be rented". I like farmers. But see my comments above on this being a “business” with the financial ability to actually do this. No not practical in this instance. I also liked the suggestion from Councillor Glass (I think – apologies if I have names wrong) about exploring the fact this is the last Canadian Shed – so conservation could be an option. It was fairly pointed out by some of the Councillors that this could be a can of worms – so we must proceed with caution down this route and it might be counter productive to what we need – survival of the Willows – but worth exploring to the fullest extent. The emotive issue, and why there is public outrage, is the timing and amount of notice, particularly given that I heard that the issue of the state of the building had been known for over a year. All I heard being asked for is an extension until the summer when there will be time to plan for running repair / replacement etc etc. We can debate the approach to date endlessly, however in the interests of moving forward positively:- 1) There is a good outcome and a step forward. I’ll summarise as the Chairman was inept at summarising and totally ignored my very reasonable request. Not a personal attack – more feedback to be prepared to summarise next time. To be very clear – I certainly could not have done the Chairmans job any better at all in a tough and emotive atmosphere and did not envy his role – with an audience (including myself) not educated on the process and protocols – as antiquated as we all feel this is. Councillor Robinson is in touch with the Willows owners and will have an OPEN Meeting within the week to carry on the conversation, the “Working Party". According to the guidelines this is the best way to approach it. So don’t get frustrated with the process. Understand the process and work within it ! 2) There was clearly a conversation between Councillor Robinson and the Owners about an insurance indemnity, to protect the council from legal issues resulting from the state of the building. I’m not entirely sure about the mechanics but I assume all owners and parents who want to keep their children there would need to sign up to this. Essentially by keeping your child at the Willows you would be signing up to the fact that if the state of the building caused any accident and injury you would not hold the landlord (the Council) responsible in any way. A bit like when you go paint balling – parachuting etc etc. Signing a form that says you will not sue or hold the owners accountable in any way shape or form. My suggestion would be to focus on the indemnity to buy breathing space and time. Parents then have the choice – to sign up to the indemnity or find another nursery. That “Working Party” should make the recommendations for the next Council Meeting. REQUEST #1: Please could someone post on this thread when the next OPEN / ‘Working Party” Meeting is (probably this / next week so those that want to attend can). This will be a much better forum for all to understand and debate the issues. REQUEST #2: I suggest the spokesperson (sorry didn’t catch your name) ensure right away that the Willows is put on the next months PC Agenda. Your objective should be to ensure that Councillors Working Party propose a resolution (or whatever your technical term) to be passed that agrees to the indemnity approach and an extension. Last Suggestion to all – Personal attacks on social media – Folks we have to move away from getting personal on this forum. It’s not like this is global forum and anonymity can be guaranteed. We all live within a 5 mile radius. Anything written here stays forever. One day you will meet the person you are ranting at or has been ranting at you, you may find them a very reasonable person, you may have had your differences on a particular topic but may have a laugh about it and share a beer (allegedly). Alternatively – you may be condemned by “the God of Hellfire”, create a family feud that will carry on for the next couple of generations, or worse centuries, and suffer angst, a nervous breakdown and health issues. The choice is ours !!! Clearly the Willows and Council will need money for any temporary repairs until the summer. I sensed there is a massive appetite for everyone to fund raise and suggest someones arranges one big PARTY (there – finally got to my personal objective – sorry it took so long). Cheers, Finchie

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Peter R (29th Oct 2014 - 13:50:04) Thanks to Finchie for his very interesting (if rather long), well balanced and informative post. I have three questions: 1. Why was the item on the Recreation Committee's Agenda for the meeting on 6 October regarding the Beacon Building, which we now all know is the building used by The Willows Nursery, held in an Exempt Session? 2. Why did Cllr Robinson state clearly at the meeting that a copy of the surveyor's report could be obtained by any interested party from the Parish Office? This was clearly not the case as Allison did ask the Parish Clerk for a copy the following morning and her request was refused. 3. Why do councillors constantly exhort the public to attend Council Meetings to ask questions instead of using this forum? When the public do attend most of them do not get a chance to ask their question as was so demonstrably apparent at Monday's meeting. I know that parish councillors are volunteers but giving your time voluntarily is not an excuse for inefficiency and ineffectuality.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Finchie (29th Oct 2014 - 16:13:45) Ooops - it was a long train journey this morning. It looked fine in an email. It is dreadfully long. I didn;t think I was prone to verbal diarrhoea. Clearly I am. Sorry all ! Ignore the preamble and get to the last quarter. Cheers, Finchie

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Kat (29th Oct 2014 - 17:24:18) I have heard that the Willows Nursery are in the old British Legion Hut not the Beacon Building which someone told me was the name given to a Youth Club building above the equipment shed or whatever it is that is used by the council workers. Finchie, the problems is that the Working Party meetings which the Council have, are all in in secret, behind close doors, they are not OPEN meetings. So the public can't attend and hear what is discussed so that would be a complete waste of time as well. There is no paper trail afterwards for any of us to review. We all want an OPEN meeting as you rightly say, so we can all hear the debate and outcomes. With respect, I think the issue is obvious and it is clear what councillors need to do, which is what the Willows Nursery suggested at the meeting unless I didn't hear either. Take away the eviction notice, give the Willows the time they need to get themselves sorted out, under the indemnity idea. Everyone should then be able to live peacefully and happily ever after. Job done! There is no sympathy for councillors who don't like it because they are getting some of their own medicine back, which people witnessed at many Council meetings in the past and also on this site. They should get off the council, and make space for people who have the community at heart and not pursuing their own personal agendas. They probably don't want to after Monday night, and I wouldn't blame them.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Finchie (29th Oct 2014 - 21:03:37) Great point Kat. So here is the test of our PC as to their openness and transparency and representing the public interest. I\'m entirely confident that the next meeting will be be OPEN ! Just starting to get my head around the same folk being poacher (trustee landlord) AND gamekeeper (representing the public interest) and doing a little homework on conflict of interest. I\'ll start another thread as I am really intrigued - but I\'ll need some help ... Cheers, Finchie

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Rebekah (29th Oct 2014 - 22:45:49) May I just raise the point that were the Willows to close, the other two nurseries would not be able to offer places to all of the children . I am the Deputy Manager at Mad Hatter's, in the grounds of Bohunt, and we are completely full in our 3-4 years room and almost full in our 2-3 years room. We are strictly governed by staff ratios and are only allowed 46 children on site at any one time therefore people suggesting that we can take the extra children in are incorrect I'm afraid.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Cherubs worker (30th Oct 2014 - 13:10:24) I currently work at Little Cherubs nursery which is located in the Methodist Church Hall, London Road. We are pleased to say we do have spaces available within our setting but these are limited so please feel free to get in touch and come and have a look around. We are more than happy to meet new faces!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Kat (30th Oct 2014 - 16:21:03) For everybody's information from the Parish Council website "Bramshott War Memorial Recreation Ground London Road (8 acres) – purchased by public subscription as a war memorial in 1920. Run at first by publicly elected Recreation Ground Committee. Handed to the Parish Council as Custodian Trustees in 1937, registered as a Charity on 17th November 1939. Pavilion Part timber, constructed 1936 (former Football Pavilion, leased to Liphook Royal British Legion as Headquarters from January 1st 1987 until December 1996) Now used as Willows Nursery School. Part concrete block, constructed 1977 to provide staff workshop on ground floor; social room, bar area, toilet and shower on first floor, used by Youth Club – The Beacon" Its called the Pavilion not the Beacon Building, and draw your own conclusions

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Kat (31st Oct 2014 - 18:09:07) Shauna, did you manage to get a copy of the surveyors report today

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - jo (31st Oct 2014 - 18:13:56) Any more news on willows ?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Val (2nd Nov 2014 - 13:45:57) I rather hi jacked the Thread referring to Devil's Lane but I am copying my post on this Thread as wellvas there is a relevance: Dawn, thank you for your post but I did not find it entirely helpful. On your first point that you think they reason why councillors do not post on this site with the regularity that you do is because people become abusive and personal, I think you have to take into account that if a person stands for public office this goes with the territory. This does not mean a I condone abusive and personal remarks - I do not - but as the saying goes "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. I knew a councillor, not from found here and this was many years ago, who actually had a really horrible Christmas card from a dissatisfied parishoner, wishing him and his family a horrible Christmas and bad luck for the New Year. He threw it in the bin and he is still a councillor. I realise that the item regarding The Willows was not of the Agenda and was brought up under Public Participation. Firstly I don't know which councillors read Liphook Talkback, you mentioned a three councillors who have placed posts on Liphook Talkback. You obviously do on a regular basis so some members of the PC must have realised that there would be a great many people attending Monday's meeting. The matter should have been handled much more sensitively and sensibly. Either a proper amount of time should have been allotted for members of the public to have their say at the meeting or another evening allocated when members of public could attend for a full and frank discussion. To my knowledge this was not a "set up" as you imply just a great many worried parents who were concerned that a wonderful nursery was about to be closed at very short notice. In your last para you say that actual "full debates" are had by the relevant committees prior to Full Council Yes it was on the Recreation Committee Agenda under The Beacon Building (a name which apparently was not associated with The Willows by many people) and it was in another of BLPC's much favoured Exempt Sessions which as I am sure most people realise exclude members of the press and the public. Sorry I seem to of hi jacked this Thread - not intentional - I was just trying to convey the mixed messages BLPC are giving to their electorate on many subjects. The thing people most object to is not being heard and that is happening all too often in Liphook and Bramshott. Shauna, did you have any luck on obtaining the surveyor's report?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Shauna Horsley (3rd Nov 2014 - 13:09:04) Been to the Parish Council Office, very nice lady behind the desk has given me this information: Surveyor's Report: available to view but not to take a copy away, but there are plans (no timescale available) to put it in its entirety on line....... watch this space. Deeds for the Land that the "Beacon Building" stands on: with their Solicitors, but applications in writing should prompt supply of a copy. Details of the Charity run by Parish Council as "Custodian Trustees" of said land: again, applications in writing please. Will be interesting to see what information is forthcoming, perhaps written requests should be made by someone more closely connected to The Willows?

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - m (4th Nov 2014 - 22:03:52) there was a closed meeting with the PC and the willows ladys tonight.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Dawn Hoskins (7th Nov 2014 - 12:24:29) I am glad this thread is still here. Yes I understand that the three owners of the Willow met with Councillors to sit round the table and discuss all the facts. I do not have an update as to what was discussed, what questions or proposals were put forward but will update you when possible. News is news, and good or bad it is important that it be delivered.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - John (7th Nov 2014 - 14:06:35) Here's an idea, could we not start a petition to dissolve/abolish the Parish Council and give power to the District Council? What would be the harm since The Parish Council don't seem to spend any money on Liphook for example the slide in the only Park in Liphook has been broken for the past few months, well, they did tie some string around it to stop the children playing on it. Maybe the District Council will do a better job.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Kat (7th Nov 2014 - 18:41:54) I'm shocked by the action of the Parish Council. What happened to freedom of speech. This shows how manipulative and underhand they are. They buried the Willows Nursery calling the Beacon Building so nobody would notice it, and now they pressurise people into removing posts from this web site. Councillors made the unanimous and crass decision to evict the Willows, and wont give them an extension of time to sort things out. Why not and whats the rush to get them out. Lets have answers from the people that did this. Roll on the elections in May 2015 when we can get rid of them. They don't listen or represent us at all.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Val (9th Nov 2014 - 09:55:53) If aything postive and constructive is to be done about a vote of No Confidence in the Parish Council, there needs to be co-ordinated action, not just a load of posts on Liphook Talkback. This will take time as procedures have to be met and a great deal of effort. However would it not be better, in view of the fact that we have elections next year, for all those who feel dissatisfied with the way BLPC is run, for themselves to get together and stand for election next year. It needs to be people who a) have the time and and are willing to give the time b) have the interests of Liphook and Bramshott at heart and do not have a lot of "hidden agendas" ie personal reasons why something should or should not be done and c) realise that those in public office very very rarely receive a "thank you" even when things go right but very often get the "flack" when the electorate think things have not gone right. You can never please all of the people all of the time. So to sum up people who volunteer for public office such as parish councils need to have integrity, time and a thick skin, So come on all you disenfrancised people, stand next year. I would love to but work full time in London and am often not home until after 7.30 pm - but who knows when I retire!!!!!!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Kat (28th Nov 2014 - 17:16:09) I have just read the minutes of the Council meeting in October. I was at the meeting and clearly heard Councillor Robinson say that copies of the surveyors report about the Willows Nursery building were available from the Parish Office. There is nothing showing in the minutes about that. In fact none of the questions that were asked by members of the public are there either. They were not answered anyway. The minutes are questionable, but only to be expected.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Shauna (29th Nov 2014 - 09:11:47) This is the reply from Cllr Ives as to why the Council Meeting to discuss the Beacon Building was held in an excluded Session The meeting on the 6th October did exclude members of the public. The reason this happens is that occasionally there may be confidential staffing or contract issues that need to be discussed, as was the case here. I'm sure you can appreciate that matters such as these can't be discussed in public to protect the members of staff that the council employs. This would apply to any corporate employer in that they wouldn't dream of discussing staff issues with members of the public present. Today I received the Minutes of this Excluded Session: It was noted that the floor was in poor condition ... a quotation has been received to provide a fix to the damaged areas. It was agreed that a full structural survey be carried out on the building. Once the results of the survey are known, a meeting between the Executive Officer, Cllr Jordan and Cllr Robinson and the owner of the nursery should be held to discuss the options moving forward. Sorry, but what part of this meeting falls into any of the categories Cllr Ives has used to justify the public exclusion? Look forward to a reply from a Councillor.....

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Val (29th Nov 2014 - 11:27:16) I read the following sentence, an extract from Shauna's posting, quoting the minutes of the PC meeting when the Beacon Building was discussed in an exempt session as follows: "Once the results of the survey are known, a meeting between the Executive Officer, Cllr Jordan and Cllr Robinson and the owner of the nursery should be held to discuss the options moving forward." I, like Shauna could not see from the extract why the exempt rule had to be instigated in this case unless something else was discussed that was not minuted. In addition it is my understanding that a meeting between the Executive Officer, Cllr Jordan, Cllr Robinson and the owner of the nursery did not take place. The owner of the nursery just received an eviction notice of a matter weeks. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am not trying to pick holes, but now that the PC at last seem to be committed to openness and transparency and Liphook Talkback is being taken seriously as a means for local voices to be heard and listened to, please can Shauna and I have some answers.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Keith (29th Nov 2014 - 13:03:26) To answer Kat's point, this is not the Parish Council being 'sneaky' - it is a quirk of Parish and Town Council bureaucracy that while the public are asking questions or making statements, the meeting is technically 'suspended' (indeed if done properly the Chairman should ask Councillors to agree to suspend the meeting to allow the public to speak). As the meeting is suspended, any questions asked by the public and answers given by councillors during the public participation session do not form part of the formal minutes of the meeting (although individual coucillors or members of the public may of course make their own informal minutes of the discussion).

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - peter (29th Nov 2014 - 15:29:28) Councillor Ives You liken Bramshott and Liphook Parish Council to a Corporation, which it is not, but if it were, we the Electorate are the Shareholders and we are entitled to know what is going on. Stop hiding the real facts.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Kat (29th Nov 2014 - 19:23:56) Keith, I checked their procedures and it says "A record of a public participation session at a meeting shall be included in the minutes of that meeting." Clear to me that they were being sneaky and in my opinion those minutes were manipulated.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - peanuts (30th Nov 2014 - 01:12:51) Kat, you are nuts .You\'re previous posts supporting former councillors, 1 of whom thought it a good idea to build a worship hall on Bohunt land for a minority religious organisation is embedded in local memory. you will forever lambast the parish councillors of today because they replaced the strange individuals who managed to acquire public office back then. I read your posts on this site and wonder why you persist.

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - ellie (30th Nov 2014 - 11:00:51) I have been to shareholders meetings too, but have never been allowed in to participate in private director/board meetings which take place preseumably once a month too. The shareholders are allowed in once a year at the -AGM to ask questions. They rarely effect any change at these meetings. Minutes of every company internal meeting are not published online? there is a world of difference. The most one can find out about companies is the yearly accounts published at companies house, even then, if the company is registered abroad, such as GVI in the British Virgin Isles, you cannot find out any info. Oh yes did not the previous council favour those plans Kat? what info is published about them that we can see Kat? not a lot!

Re: Help!!! The Willows Nursery - Keith (30th Nov 2014 - 11:26:42) Kat Ah ok, they have obviously modified their standing orders from the normal document. If what you say is correct, then yes you are right the public discussion should be included in the minutes.

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