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The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - bdavies (16th Oct 2014 - 11:06:28) You may or may no know that, regarding the recent infrastructure bill amendment (Trespass Law), this government blatantly ignored the voices of tens of thousands of responders in an open consultation where 99% of those respondents opposed. To add insult to injury, last minute amendments were made to make the bill even worse for land and property owners and everyone else for that matter. That amendment was added AFTER the consultation and proves how desperate the coalition is to help fracking companies peddle their dirty industry. Apparently the bill now includes an amendment by Baroness Kramer, the Liberal Democrat minister guiding the bill through the Lords, that permits the “passing of any substance through, or putting any substance into, deep-level land” and gives “the right to leave deep-level land in a different condition from before including by leaving any infrastructure or substance in the land”. The government decided to push ahead with the trespass law change despite vast opposition to it during the consultation. There were a total of 40,647 responses to the consultation on the move to give oil and gas companies underground access without needing to seek landowners’ permission, with 99% opposing the legal changes. Ministers have also been accused of rushing legal changes through parliament at the start of 2014, which removed the need to notify each home in an area of fracking plans. Consider this at the next election. Liphook is right in the middle of a not insignificant shale gas field and much of the surrounding land is outside of the national park so not protected. Potentially we could have well-heads established around us and we have no legal right whatsoever to oppose or prevent drilling near our properties, whether we are landowners or just normal householders.

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - James (16th Oct 2014 - 17:44:48) Great for the Aga gas bill though! I would be much more worried about the thousands of houses about to land un-opposed on Liphook than a few local well heads.

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - Phill (17th Oct 2014 - 10:43:39) This is indeed worrying and worth taking into consideration when deciding who to vote for....especially amid the inevitable flurry of pre-election 'bribes' that will inevitably come our way. Our elected representatives should represent us, not the interests of corporations interested only in profit. The problems associated with fracking are real and amount to much more that the odd well-head. Quite apart from the absolute need to move away from fossil-fuels, in favour of local, community-owned energy generation, it is clear that the only people who can protect the integrity and purity of essential resources such as ground water are those who either own land and/or simply care about their local environment and everything that flows from it....us! Saving a few quid for a couple of years on gas (has anyone actually guaranteed this?) cannot compensate for the damage done to the natural heritage we are custodians of and leave to future generations. If the financial inducements and incentives heaped on the fossil fuel lobby were offered to those developing renewable energy technology, we would have a new, clean industrial revolution on our hands, stimulating both the local and national economy, with benefits for all. Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. Regards, Phill

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - A. Ryan (17th Oct 2014 - 11:14:23) James, Houses can be demolished and land turned back to land. Poisons pumped into the ground and damage to the sub structure will be there for future generations to have to deal with. But hey, cheaper gas for the immediate future. I'm alright Jack, springs to mind.

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - James (17th Oct 2014 - 11:57:25) Im sorry but fracking does not "pump poison into the ground" - that is a green movement myth. Here is a good article that you may like to read on the subject. fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/05/13/... And cheap energy would encourage economic growth so the next generation would have a far higher standard of living. A quick read of that article shows that it is saying “The injection of hydraulic fracturing fluids into coalbed methane wells poses little or no threat to underground sources of drinking water.” It is NOT saying that what they inject is NOT 'poison'.

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - Ellie (17th Oct 2014 - 12:22:41) Fracking uses millions of gallons of water from the earth take that into account as well!

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - bdavies (17th Oct 2014 - 12:54:27) You don't have to be a green party fanatic to see the drawbacks of this industry or to oppose it. In fact most of the opposition I read and take head of emanates from local communities here and in the US who are naturally and sensibly keen to preserve their rural habitat and surroundings. Individuals within the gas and oil companies who are keen to forge ahead are rarely impacted by their own activity.

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - A. Ryan (17th Oct 2014 - 12:58:21) Very controversial James. Do you take Ezra Levant's beliefs as gospel then, and why?

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - liz (17th Oct 2014 - 13:49:18) James The fracking industry does pump poisons into the ground in the US, that is not a myth. In the UK it is more controlled but allows several things that you wouldn't want to drink, for example hydrochloric acid. There is also the risk of the escape of methane from poorly cemented wells. Extensive fracking would be very difficult to execute in the UK due to population density and lack of infrastructure - it would be long term pain for a short term gain and future generations wouldn't thank us for it.

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - Phill (24th Oct 2014 - 11:54:46) Reference the assumption that gas prices will come down... www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/fracking/ Emily Gosden 09 Sep 2013 Fracking for shale gas in the UK will not have "any effect" on gas prices, Ed Davey, the energy secretary has said, contradicting the Prime Minister's promise that it will lead to lower energy bills. Regards, Phill As I have always been saying.

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - Paul E (24th Oct 2014 - 12:18:30) From a different point of view - I'll agree to almost anything as long as wind farms aren't included

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - James (24th Oct 2014 - 12:22:46) Phill - reference from the same paper stating "fracking has real potential to drive energy bills down" - By David Cameron - 11 Aug 2013 www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics Editor - I would expect you to be impartial rather than pushing your personal views. James - why ? It's my 'show' I'm afraid - I don't actually have to be impartial - sorry.

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - S (24th Oct 2014 - 14:30:56) James - I can't believe you are referencing an article written by David Cameron to argue that fracking will bring down energy prices. (And then ask other people to be impartial!). Do you not see that David Cameron is one of the most heavily biased people you could choose! It is clear that there are huge conflicts of interest within the Conservative party with regards to fracking. revealed-fracking-industry-bosses-at-heart-of-coalition So of course David Cameron is going to spout propaganda on the benefits of fracking! He is a politician! I wonder if you yourself have some interest in fracking, James - and if not, then I really hope you will explore the issue in some more detail and draw your own conclusions instead of believing the political spin on it. I continue to despair in this government's environmental stance. I do not understand how people can disregard the environment in favour of a quick money-spinner like this. The reason why it's possible to make a quick buck from land is because it's not coming back. We need to STOP this selfish short term thinking and look at long-term sustainable investments in land use, and James, I really think you should be ashamed of your stance on this issue.

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - James (24th Oct 2014 - 17:20:50) I was pointing out that it is very easy to google an article in the same paper that has an opposing point of view. Oh look here is another one (not from the Telegraph though) Shale-gas-key-lowering-household-energy-bills-Centrica-invests-160million-fracking-firm-Cuadrilla I have no financial interest in fracking myself at all. I did study a little Geophysics at University so am interested in the technology academically. There are 2.8M households in fuel poverty in this country, I think Shale Gas has large potential to provide a cheap long term domestic based and safe energy source for this country. I think it could help economic growth and help people in fuel poverty by maybe reducing gas bills and if not making them rise less slowly and reduce price volatility. In my opinion this would be good for the UK as whole, and I am not in the slightest bit "ashamed" of what is a perfectly reasonable and valid point of view. I accept some people strongly, almost religiously disagree with that point of view, but hey that’s life and thankfully we live in a democracy so if we all want to stop fracking we can all vote Green in May. It is also very easy to be "anti everything" without actually saying how you will provide the countries future energy needs, unless you would prefer to return to a pre industrial revolution substance based economy, which I know many in the green movement advocate. "long-term sustainable investments in land use" is a bit wishy-washy. It is very nice to have energy pumped in from “somewhere” to keep your house warm as long as the wellhead is not "in you back yard". The alternatives are buying gas from nice people like Mr Putin who like to shoot airlines out of the sky. Or we could buy energy from the middle east, there are plenty of nice people there to give our money to. We could buy the American's Gas which they are fracking , that will improve the American economy though and not ours. Or we could put windmills everywhere, and pay higher bills, but I am sure you would be the first to object to a windfarm locally. Personally I would prefer fracking over a windfarm or any of the above anyday - thats just my point of view. There are already onshore oil well heads in Poole, which I really don’t find too obtrusive.

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - ellie (24th Oct 2014 - 19:07:47) There are alternatives? wood pellet boilers or ground heat source pumps spring to mind? we should consider all alternatives, whar about solar for a start.

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - sjenner (25th Oct 2014 - 04:14:40) The original post was about the trespass law. The government has completely ignored a consensus of opinion gained by public consultation and without anyone's consent is now allowing private companies to do virtually what they want under your house or land. This will not benefit us, just the fracking companies, their investors and we may see some minor balance of payments gains from sales of energy. The wholesale price of gas has dropped significantly over the last 2 years. Have we seen these price reductions passed onto us? No! So why believe any politician or energy company when they declare that this will benefit the average household. That excuse they are using about Labour's threat of energy price freezes is also just a smokescreen to avoid the issue of price reductions and an excuse to keep prices and therefore profits at a premium. There is a theory that Tory Central office secretly advised energy companies to take this stance. I have always voted Tory but taking away our rights to resist and prevent inappropriate and potentially unsafe industrial operations under our land or property has put my support for them in doubt. This Tory Government's lack of respect for the average citizen seems to be in direct proportion to the amount of favours they are willing to do for big business.

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - Phill (26th Oct 2014 - 09:23:06) Dear all, A couple of brief comments... I don't think 'shame' comes into this- we are all entitled to our opinions. However I think we owe it to everyone to be as objective as possible and free of 'observer bias' ie not only selecting evidence that fits our subjective view. Objectivity is not (to paraphrase Stephen Gould) an 'empty head'. Rather it is the willingness to test our own opinions to destruction with every counter-arguement presented. Over many years immersed in the subject of climate change I feel I have done that. I wish it was all hype and conspiracy, but it just isn't so and we are facing a genuine emergency and must get our house in order. Regarding fuel poverty: the best and most cost-effective way to alleviate this real problem is to improve energy efficiency, especially through home insulation and avoiding the profligate use/waste of energy which, when largely fossil derived, is a finite commodity. Reducing the price of fossil fuel merely increases its consumption. Lastly, wind turbines are beautiful! Of course their location must be carefully thought through, but on this subject I am very much an 'IMBY'. Better, though, to make use of multiple micro-generation opportunities, owned by the communities they supply. Regards, Phill

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - Phill (9th Nov 2014 - 09:58:47) I notice from the press that the town in Texas where fracking started has rejected further exploitation because of noise, heavy traffic and broken promises. The fracking company has taken legal action to try to continue without their consent which is presumably what happens when your government sells the ground from under your feet. Regards, Phill

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - Editor (16th Jan 2015 - 15:55:53) Not advocating Green Peace, but might be worth local people signing this petition. The prime minister wants to change the law to allow fracking firms to drill under our homes. But now he's fast-tracking his plan through Parliament at a blistering rate. Only a HUGE backlash from our MPs can stop him -- and we've got just days to make it happen. Can you tell your MP to vote against the prime minister's plans to force fracking on us? Sign the urgent petition to all MPs: greenpeace.org.uk/fracking-vote

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - jacqui middleton (17th Jan 2015 - 11:51:14) I would agree with the person who said that wind farms are beautiful - sorry I know it is controversial! I think it would be great if individuals and communities could be independent of energy companies. The government takes a lot of tax from energy companies and so has a vested interest to discourage individual energy freedom. There is a village in Germany near Berlin that produces well over all its own energy needs (according to the BBC – enough to run a small city) - think of that - if all villages and communities did that ... well the government wouldn't be happy – but we would! Link if you are interested is: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/... also more recent from Der Spiegel - this link shows how governments can intervene to prevent villages from producing all their own electricity: www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-power-grid-of-their-own... My thought is there could be more wind farms along large road corridors (possibly rail too) - as the noise is already so great that the annoying noise of the turbine would be minimal (relatively less wildlife around large roads too – see link concerning the truth of the effect on bird deaths too - inhabitat.com/new-study-reveals-the-truth-about-wind-turbines-and-bird-deaths). As long as locals gain from cheaper bills (following the German model). I live close to the A3 and I would much prefer the drone of a wind turbine than the *#* traffic! Wind turbine in my back yard – no problem at all - cheap clean electricity - thank you very much (I am not even going to go into the climate change debate(!) … selfish financial reasons are enough of an argument). Liphook is already so noisy with the A3 (no parts of Liphook can escape it). In addition, solar energy on roofs and as the person said earlier (and probably most importantly) energy efficiency. In our wooded county wood burners provide a top up of heat in any living room. Biogas from waste – not for Liphook – but ideal on the outskirts of larger settlements – and Hampshire are already doing that thank goodness. I am thoroughly against fracking the potential danger to underground water supplies and rivers is to my mind just too great – it is not only us – it is the wildlife too (and the anglers!!). We would not gain at all – and we have everything to lose. This industry is VERY new and the research simply has not been done. I am not an academic expert in engineering and the oil industry but I am an ecology tutor at a university and have a little knowledge of how pollutants can get to unexpected places through cracks in the underlying geology. In our crowded land (the USA is HUGE with a relatively small population) our water supplies could not be derived elsewhere if they became poisoned. If that happened in the US then they could get their water elsewhere. Did you know that fracking companies do not by law have to divulge WHICH chemicals they are pumping into the ground (it is kept a secret for patent reasons)? – well – I rest my case. Personally I do not trust the companies with vested interests to do right by us. It would be naive to think they would - especially if they are foreign owners - why should they care at all – NIMBY – so who cares (except of the course the locals?) Have a look at the Feldheim links – the village really is inspiring and there are other examples in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. Just imagine our wonderful community producing more than our energy needs (and the profits for us ... and our village!) ... dream on Jacqui ... but the Germans have done it … why not us …? … vested interest perhaps … I just don't get why people hate wind turbines – I have always liked windmills and think that wind turbines are magnificent beautiful things too – just need to be placed in an already fairly noisy place … plenty of those across the land … and here in Liphook … ! Cheers Jacqui

Re: The recent infrastructure bill - Tories ignoring their voters - Phill (21st Jan 2015 - 13:55:57) Well said, Jacqui! I understand Germany created 200,000 jobs in clean energy during their green industrial 'revolution'. It is purely the absence of clear governmental commitment that is stifling more rapid development and deployment of clean energy technology, as dictated by the multinational energy companies who will do all they can to maintain their stranglehold. Regards, Phill

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